what rim do you lace a crystalyte 408 motor in?

[jari.kristensen@gmail.com]

I have a crystalyte 408 motor and have asked my local bike store to lace it in a rim that can be used on a bike with v-brakes.
I got this response from them (they are doing a really good job and I do trust them with my bikes)

"This is Aaron at Kirkland Bicycle. I have not received an email back from the service department regarding your wheel and spokes, however I did speak with one of our experienced mechanics and wheel builders over in our Montlake location. The main problem that we would have relacing that hub to a conventional bike rim would be the diameter of the spokes. Traditional J-bend spokes rely on the spoke holes in the hub to be exactly the same diameter as the spokes so when they are tensioned, there is no room for play between the spoke head and the spoke hole. We can re-lace the wheel with bicycle spokes and nipples but there is a risk of spoke breakage so the work and parts would have to be non-refundable and using the wheel would be at your own risk."

Please share your experience and advice on the matter. I look forward to have my EV solution take me places

Jari

 

[Ypedal]

2 options .

1- if using regular 13~14 gauge spokes, add washers to the spokes to help reduce the amount of play at the hub flange..

2 Use 12g spokes that fit tightly at the hub, but will NOT fit into eyeleted rims made for standard bicycles.. the rim needs to then be drilled out ( or using a round metal file you can sometimes ream out the eyelets just enough to make it work ).

neither option is perfect, but both will work ! :wink:

example of spoke washers.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Ypedal, who would typically carry brass spoke-head washers?

 

[Russell]

I used these when I laced up my 9C motor using straight 14G spokes;

http://cgi.ebay.com/DT-Swiss-Brass-...Cycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef9b18c52

It was kind of a pain though since I needed to pre-form each washer to a concave shape before installing it on the spoke. Also because the motor flange was so thick compared to a conventional hub flange the spokes with the washers could not be used with the spoke heads facing in, the J-bend wasn't long enough. Since the original rim was laced with all of the spoke heads facing out I repeated that pattern when I laced the motor to the new rim and the washers did their job...until I replaced the motor with a GM Mini that is.

-R

 

[Affliction]

Always lace Chrystalite hubs with all the spoke heads facing out in a single cross. The washers are unnecessary if using 13 guage spokes.
And use high quality spokes. I use 14 guage spokes that turn to 13 guage at the spoke heads.

7.Cracked Hub Flange in Tight Radial Spokes
Another consequence of overly tight spokes can be cracking at the hub flange. This did not used to be a problem, but in the last year Crystalyte went from steel to aluminum for the flange, which is naturally not as strong. The rear hub was redesigned somewhat in late 2007 with a thicker flange that should hopefully handle the forces better. This problem is more likely to occure in radial-laced wheels than those with a cross pattern.

The photo at ebikes.ca is actually MY motor!

 

[Russell]

Always lace Chrystalite hubs with all the spoke heads facing out in a single cross. The washers are unnecessary if using 13 guage spokes.

Hmmm...maybe you should tell Crystalyte that



http://www.crystalyte.com/

They are not consistent however becasue they have this picture of a rear motor too;

And use high quality spokes. I use 14 guage spokes that turn to 13 guage at the spoke heads.

I had Wheelsmith DH-13 single-butted spokes on one motor wheel however while they are 13G at the flange end the actual head of the spoke is no larger than a conventional spoke. I found that DT-Swiss straight 14G spokes actually have a slightly larger spoke head than the DH-13's and used them when I re-laced that particular motor but then re-used the DH-13's on another motor with better machined and somewhat smaller spoke holes.


-R

 

[Drunkskunk]

I found the same to be true. DT Swiss have some nice fat heads, one of the reasons I went with straight 14 guage spokes putting my 408 in a 26" rim. I didn't use washers either, but I would have with other brand spokes.

The pattern I used was single cross, alternating the heads with the overlap at the cross so the weight is taken on the sholder of the spoke, not the head.

 

[Affliction]

Always lace Chrystalite hubs with all the spoke heads facing out in a single cross. The washers are unnecessary if using 13 guage spokes.

Hmmm...maybe you should tell Crystalyte that

I did tell Chrystalite that infact! Through Justin at ebikes.ca! :lol:
Thus rear aluminum hub flanges are no longer laced with alternating spokes.

http://www.crystalyte.com/
They are not consistent however becasue they have this picture of a rear motor too;

And use high quality spokes. I use 14 guage spokes that turn to 13 guage at the spoke heads.
I had Wheelsmith DH-13 single-butted spokes on one motor wheel however while they are 13G at the flange end the actual head of the spoke is no larger than a conventional spoke. I found that DT-Swiss straight 14G spokes actually have a slightly larger spoke head than the DH-13's and used them when I re-laced that particular motor but then re-used the DH-13's on another motor with better machined and somewhat smaller spoke holes.
-R

I did tell Chrystalite that infact! Through Justin at ebikes.ca! :lol:
I don't reccomend lacing any hub motor with the spoke heads alternating.
You need to dish a wheel then put one side in, one side out.
I got my fron't hub like the first picture.... UNACCEPTABLE! I promtly relaced it.
I've been doing ebikes too long for some hack to poo-poo the proper way of doing things on a hub.
The proper way to lace is exactly like the second picture; all spokeheads in the same direction in a single cross.
You can order spokes cut to length with nipples from http://www.ebikes.ca It's not the usual shit from china they came with.
Why the frocking confusion? We are not dealing with small bike hubs that need the interleave lacing for clearance issues.
There is no clearance issue at the spoke ends on hub motors. DON'T LET OLD SCHOOL BIKE MECHANICS TELL YOU OTHERWISE!
People lace hubs frocked up like this because they don't know any better and this is how it has always been done. The last guy you want lacing your wheel is a old bike mechanic!

 

[Russell]

The proper way to lace is exactly like the second picture; all spokeheads in the same direction in a single cross.
You can order spokes cut to length with nipples from http://www.ebikes.ca It's not the usual shit from china they came with.
Why the frocking confusion? We are not dealing with small bike hubs that need the interleave lacing for clearance issues.
There is no clearance issue at the spoke ends on hub motors. DON'T LET OLD SCHOOL BIKE MECHANICS TELL YOU OTHERWISE!
People lace hubs frocked up like this because they don't know any better and this is how it has always been done. The last guy you want lacing your wheel is a old bike mechanic!

First, you need to write with less anger.

Second, A radial lace is not what we are talking about.

Third, I have no idea what you mean by "clearance issues" but spokes are crossed and have multiple intersections for strength.

Fourth, and I'm definitely not an expert on wheelbuiding, but I do know your blanket statements above are just plain wrong.

Finally, both of my motors are small geared motors and I laced them with alternating spokes. One wheel I laced using a single cross pattern and the second slightly smaller diameter motor I used a double cross pattern. As motors become larger the 2X pattern is not a viable option and as the motor grows even larger in relation to the rim then even a single cross is not an option and it must be laced radially. There isn't a single right way of doing anything and wheel lacing is no exception.


-R

 

[Drunkskunk]

Affliction, can you qoute a source for this ... interesting .. idea of how spokes should be laced?
I would be amused to know.

 

[Affliction]

what rim do you lace a crystalyte 408 motor in? Isn't this the topic of the thread?

Finally, both of my motors are small geared motors and I laced them with alternating spokes. One wheel I laced using a single cross pattern and the second slightly smaller diameter motor I used a double cross pattern. As motors become larger the 2X pattern is not a viable option and as the motor grows even larger in relation to the rim then even a single cross is not an option and it must be laced radially. There isn't a single right way of doing anything and wheel lacing is no exception.
-R

You obviously don't have a chrystalite 4 series motor and I was explaining the right way to lace such a motor to avoid issues that effect durability.
Different motors have different lacing requirements as you have stated and this all depends on the design of the hub. Alternating spokeheads on these 4 series motors is a bad idea because of the possibility of flange failure.
Sorry I was having a bad day and I vented a bit of frustration

 

[philf]

Chalk up another vote for DT Swiss 14 guage (non-butted) spokes. The heads seat perfectly.

I've used a couple of different rims, but a cheap double walled rim that has worked well for me is the Alex DM18.

 

[NeilP]

Just a note for anyone in Europe trying to get an Alex DM18...FAT Chance...you may get lucky, but I spoke to the distributors last week..complete wheels built on them ...yes may be..but they do not import just the rims. I went with a Mavic EX721...but not arrived or laced yet