What's the REAL Way to Promote the Electric Bike Culture?

[HAROX]

"trolling trolling over the bounding main..."

This Chinese company has a cute little site. So of course they stole all the pictures. Me no intellectual property thief. Me Chinese.

The question is: does this "thing" grow, and how does that happen? What way works?

It's a sorry thing when people get polarized. :?

 

[Dauntless]

This has really been a good discussion even if it's not gone in the direction I'd intended. But since I have had a marketing bent in my time in television, I just look at things a certain way. Consider the case of Ocean Spray advertising that their juice has more "Food Energy" than any other juice. You KNOW we covered that in college. The FTC made them run commercials to tell the world that "Food Energy" meant CALORIES. Of course the guy onscreen explaining reminded you of how many calories you NEEDED in one day.

Consider the way the motorcycle has been marketed. (the pics are so big, I'll just link them rather than crowd the page. You can right click and open on a new page.) For maybe half a century it was just a just a bike with an engine, the only question was how to catch your eye with the ad. I've never seen an ad for the Ariel Square Four that even mentions this unique engine that is the ONLY thing I've heard of anyone speak about that bike since. Not a V, not inline, 4 cylinders straight up and down in a square engine. Is that a man or a woman riding that bike? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s7xjwnul4zw/TyWQrmZEVDI/AAAAAAAAHd0/lT8XR4UB_3E/s1600/1930Advert.jpg

Harley's weren't even BAD! http://www.wjm2234.com/ebay/nov10/1930-ad-HD-motorcycle.jpg

In the early 60's, Honda got the idea to break out with their smaller moped size bikes, making them seem like a great way for you and your friends to ride to the park or the beach. http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/j9qobl9kbzs8w4.jpg The ads could have been used for bicycles. http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/5lu3ayq9ugqbac.jpg The competition followed suit.

By the late 60's the 'Then Came Bronson' TV series was quickly followed by 'Easy Rider.' Suddenly it was time to promote the bikes so people could discover America. http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/8eaietijiqev4q.jpg

In the 70's they had ads of guys riding to work in business suits. http://www.oldfashionedpretty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/7994efaa06c70f7c_tumblr_ksix0wncd91qzb8cwo1_500.jpg The suit makers started putting them on motorcycles. http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/83585823-man-in-suit-riding-motorcycle-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=To6Td22INP7A07u0M%2FZqua0N6mB3meK6yFyAITIa5G5Ob%2B2GJnj1YjdE6QPRYbc4 Harley would figure out that they should be BAAAAAAAD. Not bad, BAAAAAAAAD. http://4-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.trendhunter.com/cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/xshattering-motor-art-ads-print-ad-for-harley-davidson-by-brock-davis.jpeg.pagespeed.ic.VHxQNl7Uhd.jpg Eventually Kawasaki stood motorcycle marketing on it's ear with the GPZ turned Ninja, Honda countered with a suitable caricature cringing as they said "Even the NINJA must hide----from the HURRICANE." http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/q4ch34zdenc39y.jpg No bike line was untouched. http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/rfn8353a4fn3xi.jpg

Are you getting the point yet? The culture is for sale with all these bikes, the culture is what they bought. Here this Chinese company is indeed posting up a culture, doing it on the cheap and without much concept. I don't think any of it played for the audience, yet they were doing it to inspire people to sell bikes. (That nonsense about driving people to their website is meaningless without sales.) SOMEBODY is fixating a bit to much on one tree and not seeing the forest. No need to keep hitting it with a stick.The point being yes that IS the way they're promoting, yes I was saying that's a lousy way to promote it. Yes it was said and done before.

Endless Sphere promotes one aspect of the culture. http://knowledgesalad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/real-life-iron-man.jpeg Noone is offering the main culture. And the main culture is needed to start coming off like this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m9iwwZU88XE/TbAOWsGHWOI/AAAAAAAABII/Lc6lrH5lk8Q/s1600/triad2.jpg Even as a joke, check out the one soft drink commercial with that "Real Man" in the woods wth their drink. Selling it's okay to be overacting kewl while drinkng their product.

You all talk about people driving electrics in the millions, but that's unpromotable, what you can promote is the culture of who would drive them. All too amorphous, nothing has crystallized.

In condensed matter physics, an amorphous (from the Greek a, without, morphé, shape, form) or non-crystalline solid is a solid that lacks the long-range order characteristic of a crystal.

NOW, how would you promote the electric culture? What would you make it look like? What's the image?

Oh, a quick ditty on the subject.

http://www.cruisetheozarks.com/featured_ride/robert%20emmenegger/emmenegger.shtml

 

[friendly1uk]

The closing images of a couple going places together, who otherwise might of had to get the bus, opened a market. Some might even think they themself's were more appealing with a mode of transport that others might want to share with them. Like passing your driving test, picking up friends is fun.

You can;t have two people on a push bike under UK law. I'm not sure about places. In holland I was surprised how meaningful bikes are too there society, seeing people getting a lift here and there. Running your sister to town, or kids to school. We can't do that in the UK. Yet they have developed side saddle riding, which I had never even seen before. They do it all the time. Bikes are much more in line with peoples needs over there, while we are held back over here.

 

[sk8norcal]

NOW, how would you promote the electric culture? What would you make it look like? What's the image?

for one, I would start by not posting a link to an ebike spam blog and using it as an example.

if you are on a motorcycle forum talking about promoting "motorcycle culture",
and start off by using a chinese motorcycle spam blog, it just makes u look clueless.

simple google search will show that
there are tons of positive ebike posts in the mass media, usually on gadget blogs.
converage in the mainstream bicycle mags,
ebike mags,
http://www.electricbicyclesmagazine.com/
http://www.electricbikemag.co.uk/
http://www.elektrobike-online.com/elektrobike-1-2013.736578.410636.htm
and the retailers themselves,
http://www.krankedbikes.com/

there's lots of stuff out there,
if you just open your eyes and "see the forest", instead of staring at some worthless weed....

 

[HAROX]

Dauntless, what's lousy about sex, power, and the wide open spaces?

...point being yes that IS the way they're promoting, yes I was saying that's a lousy way to promote it. Yes it was said and done before.
NOW, how would you promote the electric culture? What would you make it look like? What's the image?

Advertising is great, to a point. It's like fertilizer, BUT it isn't the DIRT.

And I hear the dirt around Anaheim is toxic, so maybe this discussion is too.
harox

 

[Dauntless]

if you are on a motorcycle forum talking about promoting "motorcycle culture",
and start off by using a chinese motorcycle spam blog, it just makes u look clueless.....

Um, NO, actually. Especially when THAT is the SUBJECT MATTER. What would happen in the motorcycle forum is they'd talk about the long history that I outlined, how has this company emerged doing THIS? They'd muse 'Where as all the CONCEPT gone?' Except they wouldn't have to, because the culture is still very much in place there. I just wonder if there's ANY way to get to join anything resembling the actual topic.

Now WHY did you list a bunch of offtopic nonmanufacturers in the thread about. . . ? I guess there's no point in asking, is there?

if I, sk8norcal, just open my eyes and "see the forest", instead of always dreaming of some worthless weed....

Dauntless, what's lousy about sex, power, and the wide open spaces?

What's so ONTOPIC about sex, power the wide open spaces? They would be lousy when presented in a sexless, powerless, close spaced manner, a la the clued in example.

This is just getting more postmodern by the minute.

 

[HAROX]

The reason I asked that, is because I read what you cited. That's the way they sold it last time, historically Dauntless. with power, and sex. and open spaces. Now, things are more crowded and sexually confused and powerless, tho' all that doesn't change the fact... people want sex power and rock and roll!!!

The real way to promote something is to make it simple to people who would have it simple.

Also no matter how complex an E bike is, it still gets to roll, in the dirt, at frog level.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

I do not think 1950's style Madvertising has anything to do with what will make ebikes sell (in the west). That is so old...hardly worth considering. Not that the message is old, or that its age makes it less worthy of consideration, but...advertising has moved on. Fragmentation happened...advertisers, just like political machines...they target microgroups.

And the best way to show that something is what people want is by simply showing it work.

Also, apps for controllers may be fine...but where the apps are really needed are on the BMS end of things.

 

[HAROX]

Fragmentation happened...advertisers, just like political machines...they target microgroups. And the best way to show that something is what people want is by simply showing it work.
Also, apps for controllers may be fine...but where the apps are really needed are on the BMS end of things.

Yup. So now to close the loop here, how to target microgroups...knowing the old three (power,space, sex) are still at work.
Replace power with finesse, maybe.
Replace space with friendly zones, maybe.
Replace sex with intelligence, maybe.
A vehicle designed for friendly zones, used with finesse and intelligence, maybe.
Something that could become a ride at an amusement park perhaps.
Or just have a mean sexy ride that rocks.

 

[StudEbiker]

This video is not e-bike specific, but I think it does a good job of making bicycle commuting appear to be an attractive option.

If there is a way to embed Vimeo videos, I don't know how to do it. Sorry.

http://vimeo.com/66032735#

I also thought of a good e-bike promoting slogan recently too.

"Pedaling more than you were before!"

 

[Chalo]

I also thought of a good e-bike promoting slogan recently too.

"Pedaling more than you were before!"

You mean when the battery runs out?

 

[The Stig]

Pedaling more because the average person would be biking more often if they owned an ebike. more places in range, doesn't matter what you wear, more comfortable in hot weather or in the freezing cold.

 

[Nehmo]

They have the international naked bike ride, why not a naked ebike ride?

Think the Chinese would steal THAT, too?

Big whoop. They all look the same.

 

[_Chris_]

Maybe we can promote it as an antidote to cyclists wearing Lycra pants.

 

[Chalo]

Maybe we can promote it as an antidote to cyclists wearing Lycra pants.

Don't knock it 'til you try it.

Unless you don't pedal, in which case you should consider growing a pair.

I often wear my bike shorts underneath my overalls, as circumstances dictate.

 

[_Chris_]

Yeah mate I never wear those things, I just put my normal clothes shorts and jeans on and head off for a few km's I thought the people most attracted to the idea of a lazy motorised bike ride would be the people least likely to see themselves in lycra pants. At 11.30 pm it was the best idea to sell ebiking I could think of so I made it just for fun

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Unless you don't pedal, in which case you should consider growing a pair.

now, now.
there's no need for yoos 2b throwin yer man-boobies in our face all the time.
i'm sure they're spectacular & your justifiably proud of the girls.
but if that's one of the mutagenic toxic side effects of wearing lycra i think i'll pass.

 

[Architectonic]

I huge factor is the weather. For most of the US it is highly variable, +/- 50F temperature range. This is not really conducive for most people to want to be exposed to the elements for their daily commute.

That is true, but the weather is pretty much a maximum of 15-25 degrees for like 90% of the year and it rains during the day maybe 45-60 days a year. In contrast, the weather in Denmark or Holland isn't too great, but they have a bicycle culture.
Yet we still don't have a bicycle culture, ebikes or not. Our city is hosting the Velo-city conference next year, but I doubt anything will actually change.

The difference is that in places where there is a cycling culture, the planners actually ride bicycles and thus the infrastructure is designed so that bicycles fee like they really belong. (eg in Holland, they have priority at intersections etc.)

It seems to be a path dependency thing - we are stuck in an automotive culture, our planners only drive cars and as such, nothing changes. Unless we hit a crisis...

 

[The Stig]

I was thinking about how scooters are one of the most popular types of motorcycle. One thing that seems to define scooters is the "low step" feature of the frame. Also known as "Step through" in the bicycle world.

Also in the cities of Europe where cycling is the main mode of transport, like in Amsterdam and Copenhagen, the most popular type of frame is "low step."

I think ebikes should be able to have the best of both worlds, having full suspension like scooters and low-weight, plus the behavior of bicycles.


Where are the low-step, full suspension, ebikes??????

This is the only one I've ever seen:
It just needs a front suspension fork.

http://www.viking-bikes.com/products/EBike/5436-E-Go.html

 

[friendly1uk]

You know, I was just thinking how accessible good bikes are becoming in the UK. I have three electric bike shops within about 25 miles. All of which are happy with you trying them out. It was how I got my first go, and it was great fun. Due to regulations I expect they all top out at 15.5mph, at which point your getting a lot of wind noise. However it was the eagerness to get up to town cruising speeds that stood out the most. 250w is enough to do it all for you along the flats and mild inclines. An active sports cyclist averages 210w over half hour. It is only on hills where the motor will need any help to carry you.

That is the kind of bike performance being offered. An effort free 15.5mph when walking effort usually nets around 9mph. 15.5mph is a speed I have not seen on cycle paths in my limited 250 miles experience. Some people are doing up to 18 but there on the road and dressed for the occasion. The bike paths round here are not built for that kind of speed.


The reasoning behind this post, is that many perhaps come here thinking of building a bike, only to be put off by motorcycle riders airing there goals. The moment you realise what most people are building, you don't want a legal bike anymore. It is very hard to get excited about a legal bike, when it seems everyone else has a faster one.

Perhaps we could look at modding legal bikes. Easy ways for Bob Normal to have a bit of naughty in his life without any engineering skills. It was a Cyclomatic I tried. A bike I can have delivered for £500 and uses an 8fun I believe. It has been said these 24v bikes go well with 36 volt batteries. I was happy at 24v but it is very interesting that it might top 20mph and satisfy peoples needs to say there bike is better. If enough moddable bikes are known, we could pin a post all about them. Maybe drag that out to a forum of white wire sniping hints and tips for 'off road' use. Manufacturers would do well to recognise it creates a new market. Making bikes that sell legally and can later be unlocked. It is only forums like this that can pass that easter egg knowledge along. I know if cyclomatic made there bike in 36v format it could cost £550 but with a snip it could do 20mph. That seems so much more attractive than a 'legal limit' machine and the image surrounding them that needs braking.

I don't know what the 36v cyclomatic will really perform like. It is a guess. Some people do know the answer though. Compiling this information seems a good idea to me.

 

[_Chris_]

Bikes in movies with surfers or chicks in bikinis would make them get noticed a bit more than suburban bike stores will. The whole thing needs to be sexed up a bit I hate to say and it needs to be made stylish (unlike a 200W Chinese step through with a big ugly battery). As soon as it gets trendy and just affordable people will want them.

There is a lot of retiring baby boomers in the next 20 years who might like one too to throw on the back of the touring van.

Thats the thing its got to look good not just go fast to break through that barrier of getting noticed. Many of them look really 'Practical' or conservative commuter like. maybe its time to hide the wires

 

[lbz5mc12]

All that manufacturers need to do is install a speed limiting function on higher power bikes. That way the consumer has the best of both worlds. They have a street legal bike with a lot of torque as well as something they can use off the street for higher speed. Someone just needs to take the PAS switch and re-purpose it as a three step speed limiter. Take the low, medium and high settings and use them with the throttle. Low could be 15 mph, medium could be 20 mph and high could be 25-30 mph depending on the terrain and such. And of course the max speed for each setting is controlled by how much throttle you give it.

 

[The fingers]

More TV news spots would certainly increase interest.

 

[_Chris_]

.........

 

[Eskimo]

I huge factor is the weather. For most of the US it is highly variable, +/- 50F temperature range. This is not really conducive for most people to want to be exposed to the elements for their daily commute.

That is true, but the weather is pretty much a maximum of 15-25 degrees for like 90% of the year and it rains during the day maybe 45-60 days a year. In contrast, the weather in Denmark or Holland isn't too great, but they have a bicycle culture.
Yet we still don't have a bicycle culture, ebikes or not.

Climate in Denmark is warm and lovely moderate
Australia i think is lot like Finland. On the other end of the extreme. Lots of empty land. You don"t want your car to broke down middle of the hot desert, as you don"t want that to happen middle of the empty arctic wilderness either. Denmark has a good bicycle culture, Finland has a kind on...moderate bicycle culture. Lots of people are very idealistic but that climate just disagrees.
Here in the south, Helsinki, there is a bicycle culture one can say.
Yesterday i saw a third DD-driver here. Third this year. Unfortunately he rode like a total jackass. 40 km/h thru the crowded downtown without any pedaling, WOT on tight corners. Big rear motor on MTB., very fast. If you are reading this, please throtte down around the center area, it"s not a racetrack. You rode past the new Music House to Baana like hell.