Which of these e-bikes is the best for me?

L

Loopy

1 mW
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Jun 22, 2011
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I live in Vermont, off a steep dirt road, which is bumpy, gravelly, and full of potholes. I have to brake the whole mile down. After 2 miles, I hit paved road. I want to get fit, but am deterred by the hills here and have to get off and push alot!

Borrowed a friend's E-moto 2.0 ridge - got me back up the hill with pedal & sweat which is fine. I'm looking for a bike that is in the $2k range that can handle the rough roads but not slow me down too much on the tarmac. I'm not interested in going really fast or not pedalling - I want to pedal and get fit.

I'm female, 125lbs and 5'7. I would REALLY appreciate any comments on these bikes OR suggestions for others. I don't know what brands to look for in things like brakes, suspension, etc. The attached spreadsheet shows some made in china bikes, and some a little more well known.View attachment bike compare.xls

Looking at EG bikes, R Martin, Trek 2010 models, eZee Forza...also wondering about Giant, Sanyo Eneloop.
 
Welcome to ES ! 8)

Looks like you have decided on a pre-built bike, so DIY kits are completely out of the question ?

Many of these pre-builts are not meant for heavy duty off-roading and most are quite limited in the power department.. however they do offer a quick " get on and go " instead of having to wrench your own and learn the digs...

If that hill is as bad as you make it sound, it will require slow rolling up a steep rough road, i rarely recommend a Cyclone kit to people but this is one situation where they work well because the motor can spin at high rpm while the wheels turn slowly with good leverage.... a hub motor going slowly is not ideal but can work if done right.

So... one important question, how far is the entire round trip ?
 
Thanks for considering this ypedal.

Yeah - I'm completely and utterly ignorant in the mechanical dept, esp. with bikes, so doing a DIY would be next to impossible without some serious learning and support, and I really want to ride sooner than later because here in VT, well...winter is fast approaching. At least with a pre-build there's usually a year's warranty and someone I can call if I have a problem.

I work from home so no standard commuting distance but I imagine the longest roundtrip in a day would be 30, with a more typical roundtrip of 10-15 - all to get fit and run the dog, possibly run to the post office and back etc.

What do you think of the EG bikes with 21 speeds, front & rear suspension (which, due to amount of bumps sounds very appealing to my butt and wrists) and 350w hub motor? Am I better off with a crank drive? I wish I could tell you how steep the hill is but there's no grade or anything posted around here.



Thanks so much
 
One thing you do not want to do is get a geared hub motor with all those hills. You'll be straining it a lot and the gears (which are plastic) will tear up quickly. If you want to go with a hub motor (pre-made or conversion kit), get a direct drive one.

Cameron
 
If going for a drive crank (not sure I'm expressing that quite correctly, but have read about them on the brit forums), is there one in my price range that you guys know of/could recommend (knowing that really you'd recommend a kit overall)?

If going for a hub/350w...same question.

There's lots of hub choices out there and I'm bewildered by which one to choose. I promise not to hold it against you if it falls apart ;)...but when I look at the spreadsheet comparison I attached, I can't tell the chaff from the wheat.

E.g: full suspension, 350w motor and (promax) disc brakes on the Balix3 which is nice, but not a known brand. If I get a Giant or Trek, then I don't get full suspension or disc brakes, but they have a better reputation.

I guess what I'm really asking if you guys were FORCED into picking a pre-built e-bike in the $2k range with the same conditions I have, which one, through gritted teeth perhaps, would you go for and why?

Sooooo appreciate your thoughts.
 
350w is more than you can pedal over any real distance but I bet even you, as light as you are, can burst that much. If I was you I'd shoot for running 500w at least or even better go straight to the max your state allows. If you get a motor that can take 1000w you can always turn the amps down and run less power. I think that'd be better than trying to push 500w or more into a 350w motor.
 
Sticking with your original question... It looks like you did a good job on the spreadsheet to narrow down some decent bikes. Based on the conditions you describe, the R Martin MiPower stands out for having decent power and range, flexibility in pedal assist settings to let you decide how much you want to work, and it has decent components that should last in your rugged conditions.

PS: I love Vermont!
 
Here is a Decision Matrix made by forum member Jerome Daoust. Not sure if I paste the link in here right? It opens with Excel or OpenOffice Calc. Lots of bikes to compare.
http://www.expandingknowledge.com/Jerome/Bike/Gear/Electric/Best/DecisionMatrix.xls
 
Too bad you aren't more mechanical. It sounds like you'd be best served by stuff that is not even normal for kits. Learn what you can here though, you'll still get more flats that usual with a motored bike, and have to find the occasional bad connection.

First off, it will help to really know how steep that hill is. Map my ride is a good place to find out. If you go to that site, and map out just that hill, it can give you the grade of it in %.

Most off the shelf stuff, whether a kit or a prebuilt bike can do moderate steep hills, such as 5% or less with no particular problem. 125 pound rider really helps too of course. To ride hills up to 7% the motor should be at least 500w, and really, 1000 w is best for a hill up to 10%. Above 10%, you'd really have to get into the more powerful motors avaliable in kits, or ala carte.

Not quite on your list of bikes , the R martin, in the R10 model might do the trick. Since it's a drive through the bottom bracket, it has the advantage of being able to use the low gears in the chain drive to grind up hills very slow. Hubmotors have a problem with running slow, but a chain drive can just gear down. It's not a huge motor on that bike, but you aren't a huge man, and if your hill is less than 10% it should climb it.
 
This is great. I'm getting advice on the other forum too (bikeforum.net) so it's a huge help to get all this input. Thank you for that tool suggestion - it is brilliant! Ok, so the grade goes from 1% to 7% on the mile dirt road from my house which is pretty typical of VT dirt roads.

The R10 is the very first bike I considered, but delivery of up to 5 weeks away put me off a bit (although the price is attractive). I wonder if the MiPower has the same type of drive (from gears instead of hub...yep, sure I'm saying that wrong). I'll investigate some more.

What is being highly recommended to me is the Kalkhoff as they all use a Panasonic chain drive which would, apparently, be much better for me on the hills. They are not cheap, but if they are really long lasting and worth the money, I would consider that.

I checked out Jerome's spreadsheet which is fabulous. He and I actually emailed a little bit. He recommended an $8k bike which there's just no way. Then the A2B which, visually, just really turned me off. I'm really looking for a bike to pedal that's as much like a bike as possible, with just a little extra help on hills, with dependable components/quality.

Any more thoughts (Kalkhoff? MiPower...others?) much appreciated.

And I suppose I should ask, if one were to buy a normal bike and fit it (I'd have to find someone to do the fitting part), what is the best combo there in the $2k price range.

Also to aknowledge that I really appreciate anyone taking the time to respond to me. I'm sure my question and responses can cause a lot of eye-rolling in your community so thanks for helping me out.

Warmly,
Sarah
 
I've got some dated 24V Panasonic experience but nothing direct about the Kalkhoff. Those type of drives are the most like a "normal" bicycle you'll find but they're pedelec only as far as I know so there'll be no motoring along with a throttle. They're nice, quiet and efficient but not a lot of help from the motor. 10-15mph bikes basically.

Seems a shame to spend that kind of money when you can put build a fierce hill climbing full suspension 20-30mph commuter for 1/2 what a Kalkhoff would cost.

You might also check into the old Tidal Force folks? E+ or something like that? Look around for somebody doing business with eBikes in your area and see if they can help get you on the road?
 
Is the price right on that Trek FX 3? The motor kit on that is worth about what the whole bike is selling for. Are you sure the price isn't about $1000 more? Being a cyclist first myself, I totally tend to lean to bikes made by bike companies, rather than motor companies importing Generic China built bikes. The TREK/BionX set up you listed, is bike first, motor assist too. The FX Series of Hybrid bikes, with 700C wheels, are going to roll over stuff easier than smaller wheels, it's just physics. In the gravel, and bumps, a full suspension bike is your ticket, but everywhere it's paved, the 700C wheels are nicer. On our gravel hill, my 700C wheel bike handles the gravel better than my 26" and 20" wheel bikes. I use Schwalbe Marathon tires on it. (get the fattest toughest 700C Schwalbe or other puncture resistant tires you can fit in there) The FX series of Bikes are very nice handling and ride!

The electronics Trek uses on it's bike is one of the nicest production set ups in hub motors you can get, and the rear motor and battery placement keeps bike handling neutral. Bikes with front hub motors pull, rather than push, and handling is different. I live in an area that has 700C offroad bike (cyclocross) races all the time. Resale is going to be stronger with a name like Trek, if you decide to sell later. You will get good service with a Trek dealer, they usually tend as a general rule, to be customer focused and should be able to help you keep your bike rolling smooth.

HOWEVER, Trek can and does abandon projects from time to time. They may not actually be in it for the long haul and you could end up with a bike that Trek no longer supports someday. Any regular bicycle shop that isn't electric centric may also have negative attitude so, if the shop you were thinking about getting that 2010 bike from is apathetic towards E-Bikes, it's highly doubtful you will get much in the way of qualified after sale support when needed.

It just seems to me like you would benefit greatly from face to face support, and if you have a local dealer there, just go ride and test them for yourself. But beware not to buy too soon, it's exciting, but don't let that sway you until AFTER you have tried as many as you possibly can, at least 5 or more.
 
Hi Mobybike,

Thanks for your response. Here's the link to the Trek...it is a 2010 model: http://trekdg.com/product-list/trek-electric-bicycles-pg464/

What do you reckon?

Do you have an opinion about the Kalkhoffs (Tasman)? http://store.kalkhoffusa.com/Tasman-p/ka09tasm.htm

From what I understand, the Panasonic motor is second to none....

I'm getting highly encouraged to buy a kit on another forum, but just feel more confident in buying a pre-built, jump on and go one that will last...hopefully.

Thank you for any input - mucho appreciated.
Lou
 
Wineboyrider...thank you for that link. That seems like another good contender too.

AGGHGHGHGH - so many choices. Seriously, one of you electric bike experts should offer consulting. At this point I would pay someone to find the right bike for me. My boyfriend will leave me soon if I spend any more time on the laptop!
 
I can understand your predicament (decisions decisions) but can you not make it to as many bike shops and test ride the bikes in a similar scenario as what your ride would be and then ask about range price etc, then you would get the real feel, or will it be delivered as none are nearby?
 
Lou,
I was mistaken about the battery placement on the Trek, I had the frame mount from BionX kits mixed up with what Trek ended up doing on the FX. Actually I would say don't get a bike with a battery over the rear wheel. You want the battery between the axles of the front and rear wheels someplace, and as low as possible to the ground. The absolute lightest weight bike you can find that has that, would be a great place to begin. I live in Kalkhoff territory and they are very nice bikes. The one you linked to the Tasman, has the drive system style recommended by Ypedal for being a better idea for hill climbing.

I want to stress the recommendation that you find the lightest complete bike you can, and make sure the battery is NOT over the axle (nothing extending aft of the axle) of the rear wheel, and then I would also be one to suggest a step through frame if possible. We recently got an iZip Zuma, and I really like it a lot, but we quickly found out that both my Wife and Daughter who are a little shorter and a little heavier than you, had trouble handling all the weight of the bike. Low speed crashes and near crashes for both. So we got an iZip Via Urbano this week and they both love that and ride it like they have owned it all their life, grinning ear to ear. (got it new for $505 on closeout from cowboom.com so we took a chance) I put Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35 Balloon tires on it running at 24 psi. It floats like suspension and is faster.

I really admire the technical genius of the vast majority of the folks on this forum, it is a fantastic hobby for many, but I'm the kind to catch my house on fire with a lithium battery I mis-wire myself. The electric side is newer to me, but I have been a regular bicycle mechanic for 30+ years.

Here is what was wrong with our iZip Via Urbano right out of the box.
1. Fork drop outs (for front wheel) are bent
2. Bottom Bracket bearings installed backwards,
3. Bottom Bracket loose, because there was a weld or a machining tool
nick/bulge on the inside of the Bottom Bracket shell of the frame that was
preventing the adjustable cup from threading in.
4. Chain was not properly installed, and the connecting rivet was not pushed
in all the way.
5. Stem anchor bolt for the wedge broke while trying to secure. The bars
would not stay tight at the lower connection.
6. Headset sealed bearings were not installed correctly, and the adjusting
shim was not seated properly.
7. Pedal washers did not fit the crank arm recess.
8. Pedal axles feel bent.
9. Rear derailleur hanger bent
10. Rear derailleur cable frayed badly
11- Front disc brake is malformed and is thicker in one spot causing a pulse
while braking.
12. Rear wheel spokes do not intersect the spoke nipple at the correct angle
13. Rear wheel was out of round by 4-5 mm!
14. Speed controller was not secured and rattled

I fixed all that, and we really do like the bike!
 
Still would realllllly help to know the gradient of the hills you plan to climb. Possibly a really small and inexpensive internal geared hubmotor may be all you need. 300 watts or so.

That would expand your choices to nearly all production ebikes.

But if you have a REAL hill, you need the best climber. That would make a kit a dang good choice, such as a BMC or Mac gearmotor that has much more power.
 
I just thought I would make a comment, if only because I rode a Kalkahoff Pro Connect the other day.

Not quite the same as the one in the link below, the one I rode had front suspension, and Shimano XTR derraileur,

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/electric/product/review-kalkhoff-pro-connect-pedelectric-09-33661/

A very nice bike, not as fast as any of the ones we build ourselves...but it was faster than I expected...and so light..i have had old steel framed mountain bikes in the past that weigh more.

another link


more like this one

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/electric/product/review-kalkhoff-pro-connect-disc-11-44602
 
Dingo: living in rural Vermont, very few bike shops with electric bikes to peruse so it'll be an online job for me I'm afraid.

Moby: thanks for the clarification. I think the reason why the Mongoose feels good is because it is very light. So what IS the lightest electric bike that can handle rough roads? I read about the Canondale with the Cytronex (maybe got that wrong) motor being excellent, but they are for paved roads only.

Funnily enough, I checked out the iZip Zuma last night (this has become an obsession and I was up at 2am reviewing bikes online) so it's great that you gave your input on that one.

Dogman: the gradiant, according to that fab tool, is 7%. Well, goes from 1% to 7% which, to a biker, might not be that steep (to me, however - it's a get off and push job in many spots!).

Reading so much that a geared motor is the way to go (mid drive crank/crank drive/how you say it). I think (but could be wrong) that these ones have motors that use the gears:
Kettler Twin (250w PANASONIC $2600)
Kalkhoff Tasman (250w/26v bat $2500): http://store.kalkhoffusa.com/Tasman-p/ka09tasm.htm
Balix3 (350w GEARED (21 gears!), 36a bat $1799) 58lbs
R10 (200w GEARED, 36a bat $1299)
IZIP Zuma (Exclusive Alloy Shell 500W DC Brushless Geared Hub Motor) - counting that one out now.

I'm sorry to heavily rely on you guys so much - do you think any of the above would be a good fit, or something else? Don't any of you live in Vermont?!!!!
 
I live in Boston, I do have quite a few EBIKes you could try. I may even be willing to part with one. You will have to buy a new battery.
I have some hills you can try the bike on and off road within a mile of here.
you can send me a private message if you are interested
 
Thanks for your offer. I'm about 2 hours from Boston. Perhaps you could let me know which bikes you have exactly, and whether they would come with a warranty etc. I'd like to know that before making a drive out there. Thanks!
 
Hi,
I think you may have misunderstood my offer. I'm not a dealer. I said I*** may**** be willing to sell one.

I am an Ebike enthusiast with my own personal collection. I have some direct drive hub motors 9C, I have an Eboost, friction drive by Kepler , which are amazing power assist type , I was making a friendly offer for you to come and test drive the vehicles I have the voloci a chain drive moped. I have all sorts of batteries 36 volt and 48 volt so you could try the different voltages and and levels of power assist. So I am willing to let you test drive some of them if you like. And show you the ropes of electric bikes. There is a bit of a learning curve with the kits and batteries.

So offer still stands If you are interested, you can contact me via private message on the board
 
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