who has benn stopped by the popo?

[marks]

My only experience with Police and pushbikes is when I was run over by a car around 5:00pm in the afternoon.

By the time police arrived it was 6:15pm and they booked me for riding at night time without a headlight on my bike.

 

[Muad'dib]

Harsh!

 

[Reid Welch]

was essentially duplicate data

 

[Reid Welch]

duplicate data best put in The Haven, so it is cleared from here

 

[Anonymous]

.

 

[Lessss]

http://www.syracuse.com/today/index.ssf/2009/05/police_in_alabama_caught_on_vi.html

 

[neobeam]

Help!
here in n.j. i was recently stopped at 10pm on a two lane road,which had some traffic,all of whom went considerably faster than
the posted limit and left me to drive at my bikes higher speed.
i had been to the supermarket,and was carrying some groceries,using the bags as the tie off ,(one on the outside of my
backpack).
i use 48volts on a kelly with a x5303 front,and i really didnt think the setup was gonna be as "hot" as the
72v rig that i got originally,but i have learned ....this rig (the officer said...)was going 43m.p.h.!
so i told the young man "i had built it" and "it was all i have " he countered with -
"so i should 'nt do my job?"----- my response was i was asking for leniency...

he did not take the bike ,he said i cant ride it home ,i asked to walk it,or pedal,
he allowed this,and i went home,dreading the words....
"i dont know what i can write (ticket-wise) on this,but i will send the summonses to your home"
what i got,was
no hemet,no tags (motor vehicle),no insurance,and ,no license,also
prohibited on road use.
anyone ever see this before?
i am a little worried.
-joe

 

[gogo]

what i got,was
no hemet,no tags (motor vehicle),no insurance,and ,no license,also
prohibited on road use.
anyone ever see this before?

It would seem NJ has no special classification for ebikes, and your speed might classify it as a motorcycle, not a moped. "Prohibited on road use" sounds like you might be getting the "dirt bike (other than street legal) on the street" package of tickets.

Wow, it seems you need to follow moped rules up to 25 MPH and motorcycle rules for 25+ in NJ.

 

[neobeam]

there was no ticket for exceeding any speed law,and i think it is a major issue.
the bike is my sole means of getting around .
if they had written that i was going "that fast" i would see no options.
( in this case ,i want to pay the "helmet ticket and get the rest dismissed.)
yet it was assumed that this 70 lb bike was "a motor vehicle".
anyone able to advise?

 

[mwkeefer]

neobeam,

I have friend in NJ who have had this experience.... FIGHT THE TICKETS in court. They didn't write you for speeding, even if the police come in and try to claim you were doing 43... was this flat out, down hill? Were you peddling?

Lucky for my friends they never were stopped speeding on an ebike but they got the Uninsured, Uninspected, Unlicensed tickets. (One got an unlicensed driver ticket).

They challenged these using the Federal Laws which make most eBikes fall into the "Consumer Electronics" category (< 1hp, < 20mph on a flat of assistance, you can still go faster but have to peddle). They all won their cases because NJ has no right to claim normal ebikes as "Motor Vehicles" which is exactly what they are trying to do for your situation.

You can fight and win this one... just do a little research or post a thread and ask for assistance from the community.

NJ is a PITA, they have an anti segway law on the books even but they can't make eBikes illegal due to the federal law... a bonus, if the police continue to give you tickets do as my friend has now done (he has no license because he got a DUI 5 years ago) and file suit for harrassment against the NJ police. He won the case too... (had to be stopped / searched / ticketed 4 times before he got mad enough to sue).

Truly you have no worries, what they are trying to do, they cannot legally do.

They should have written you for: No helmet, no lights, etc... not for Motor Vehicle code violation (You can't violate the motor vehicle code of NJ by riding a "Consumer Electronics" device and since they didn't cite you for speeding... FIGHT IT MAN!!!

I also just checked the fed law... the only exception where they could write you those tickets would be if you were DUI on the bicycle... at that point Fed law even allows for the incident (and ebike) to be treated as a motor vehicle. Otherwise you are exempt from the Motor Vehicle Code, no matter if the police like it or not.

-Mike

PS: Let me know if I can be of assistance with research.

 

[mwkeefer]

Hello all,

A suggestion from my personal experiences....

My local police (just my town) do not appreciate me very much (I have been on a segway for years, they have tried to confiscate it, sue me for accidentally running through wet cement that wasn't blocked off properly, write me tickets for driving without a license, uninsured, etc).

When I began my eBike experiments I did the legal research to ensure that I wasn't breaking any laws and that I could provide compliance with the Federal eBike laws. Once I had a bike up and running, I went to the police of not only my town but every town I ride through (covering about 30-40 sq miles) and told them "I was working on a design of eBikes for law enforcement". This might seem silly but I have been cruising all over (about 700 miles so far) this terrain and zipping way too fast from town to town, the most reaction I have gotten from the police was a headlight flash of acknowledgement as to who I am.

So by going to them ahead of time, telling them about eBikes and the federal laws protecting their use by normal people... finally telling them I am working on an end product for Law Enforcement to use (much cheaper and faster than Segways) put it over the top... even my local PD is nice to me now.

I should add that I have a flashing rear tail, my own version of working brake lights, turn signals, etc... and a head light. I don't wear a helmet because the federal laws only require a helmet on a minor so they can't bother me for that (sometimes I have a full face motorcycle helmet on when testing top speeds), otherwise I do as I please and I have had no incidents to date (a few months).

I see these local cops 3-9 times per day when I am out and about, one asked how the R&D is going at wawa the other night... total 180 from previous attitudes towards me and my activities.

Hope this helps someone!

-Mike

PS: Get a copy of the federal eBike statutes and carry them with you... same as I used to for Segway, I even keep spare copies to give any officer who stops me.

 

[Denis]

Law enforcement has gone crazy and would be a good idea to carry one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/4GB-Mini-Spy-Pen-Camcorder-Video-Recorder-Camera-Drive_W0QQitemZ120405921324QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c08c08e2c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Denis

 

[mwkeefer]

Or you could just take the e-bike to the next level and copy my Stop Proof system from my motorcycles and cars, it records like a black box in a police car or airplane (gps, turn indicators, break lights, video with time and date stamp front and rear) .. then let them bring it on (as long as their lying or making stuff up like some locals I have dealt with)...

See the look of surprise when you come to the prelim hearing with video the courts accept + full audit & log of your driving / riding at the time. I have used this 3 times to get all charges against me kicked in prelim because the police did as usual and made up some BS about a bad light or "he was weaving"... my personal favorite "the driver didn't come to a complete stop". LOL - there all my driving is for the court to observe first person and what is this... oh there are teh police behind me, then breaking my tail light when I assure them my lights are fine.

This really was a trip... not that anyone really needs to go this far, I was pissed at some locals for a setup they tried on me for a stop sign which wasn't even a legal stop sign and which I stopped at. Wrote me a ticket then lied about it in court, only was tossed because of it not being PA legal (stop signs in PA must be at the intersection of two public roadways... this one was at a road and an alley way which was on my property.). I knew the locals were gonna be pissed and try again, this stopped them dead in their tracks.

** Its not a bad idea to call yourself (at home) if you know there will be voice mail answering... just as the police stop you, then you have a legally admissable "accidental" voicemail recording of the stop.

-Mike

 

[neobeam]

New Jersey - Electric bikes are illegal on public roads.
this from the maker of the "a2b" electric....
(ultramotor)
now i am worried.

 

[mwkeefer]

Neobeam,

As I explained ... there is Federal law which PROHIBITS the states from classifying eBikes as anything other than "Consumer Electronics Devices" and even more specifically the Federal Law only allows the states 2 possible cases where they can change it up and legally cite you from Motor Vehicle Codes (the only code violations they cited you for)... If your ticketed for speeding > 20mph or if you were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

These are the only two conditions which NJ can apply infractions of the Motor Vehicle Code to the use of an eBike. That's the beauty of these, THEY ARE FEDERALLY PROTECTED as NOT MOTOR VEHICLES.

Can you ride an Bicycle on public roadways ? Yes (not the major Highways but roadways yes), the eBike is no different in the eyes of the laws except the officials/police are prevented by fed law from doing what they are trying to do to you.

Ive had 3 associates/friends have the same thing happen in NJ and they all won (one poor guy got hit by the same POPO 3 times and finally he sued for harrassment and won!).

** Unless NJ has found some loophole within the past 6 months (length of time since my friend won his last case), this guy had a 5 year suspension of license for DUI and still won (He wasn't drinking when stopped, he was speeding downhill but that is okay... the 20mph limit is for 170lb rider on 0% grade without pedaling. We all can pedal to 30-35mph with ease on a flat to downhill if were already cruising at 20 on the flat or uphill.

-Mike

 

[mwkeefer]

Neobeam,

This was on wikipedia:

Under New Jersey law a motorized bicycle is "a pedal bicycle having a helper motor characterized in that either the maximum piston displacement is less than 50 cc. or
said motor is rated at no more than 1.5 brake horsepower or is powered by an electric drive motor and said bicycle is capable of a maximum speed of no more than
25 miles per hour on a flat surface."[52]
This would include E-bikes, meaning they must be titled and registered. However, only MOPEDs approved by Motor Vehicle Services can be titled and registered.
When last checked, no E-bikes satisfied this requirement, so ebikes cannot be registered in New Jersey[53].

Motorized tricycles are not legal on public roadways and sidewalks in New Jersey.[54] Likewise, motorized scooters are only permitted for riders with mobility-related disabilities.[55]

Notice the above mentions Trikes and Scooters but not eBikes which are their own class of Consumer Electronic Device..

Then for a bit more clarification lets look over at V is for Voltage forums: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3613-are-electric-assist-bikes-legally-bicycles-usa

This posting in its entirery (above) is not actually 100% correct except that the Federal Law does supercede the NJ laws.

Another interesting idea... GO TO THE PRESS!!! Don't wait until court day, call up the papers and TV stations...explain how you are a GREEN alternative transportation user and that the NJ police / courts are trying to usurp the Federal Laws that prodtect your right to be green! That will put alot of pressure out ther.

-Mike

 

[nicobie]

Excellent info.

Thanks Mike.

 

[TylerDurden]

This posting in its entirery (above) is not actually 100% correct except that the Federal Law does supercede the NJ laws.

Section 1 of the Act provides
that its requirements ‘‘shall supercede
any State law or requirement with
respect to low-speed electric bicycles to
the extent that such State law or
requirement is more stringent than the
Federal law or requirements referred to
in subsection (a)[the Commission’s
regulations on bicycles at 16 CFR part
1512].’’

The section in bold means, Fed law supercedes where State law is weaker.

"To the extent" means "up to the point where". (I consulted a lawyer.)

Moreover:

Fed law has no bearing on ebike operation in a community, it is consumer protection law regarding sales. Ebikes are not federally protected from anything regarding operation.

 

[swbluto]

This posting in its entirery (above) is not actually 100% correct except that the Federal Law does supercede the NJ laws.

Section 1 of the Act provides
that its requirements ‘‘shall supercede
any State law or requirement with
respect to low-speed electric bicycles to
the extent that such State law or
requirement is more stringent than the
Federal law or requirements referred to
in subsection (a)[the Commission’s
regulations on bicycles at 16 CFR part
1512].’’

The section in bold means, Fed law supercedes where State law is weaker.

"To the extent" means "up to the point where". (I consulted a lawyer.)

Moreover:

Fed law has no bearing on ebike operation in a community, it is consumer protection law regarding sales. Ebikes are not federally protected from anything regarding operation.

Go back to the V if you believe their BS.

That's been my impression of federal law, too. States can make local laws stricter, but they can't "partially reverse the intention" of federal laws.

But, this brings up an unusual thought. Why is the limit in Missouri higher than the federal limit? I don't remember the exact wording and maybe Missouri's wording pertains to moped's and the federal pertains to "e-bikes", but I thought Missouri allowed upto 30 mph for an ordinary e-bike without additional legal encumbrance whereas the feds limit it to 20 mph.

 

[TylerDurden]

That's been my impression of federal law, too. States can make local laws stricter, but they can't "partially reverse the intention" of federal laws.

But, this brings up an unusual thought. Why is the limit in Missouri higher than the federal limit? I don't remember the exact wording and maybe Missouri's wording pertains to moped's and the federal pertains to "e-bikes", but I thought Missouri allowed upto 30 mph for an ordinary e-bike without additional legal encumbrance whereas the feds limit it to 20 mph.

The MS law may refer to roadways, not sales of consumer goods.

 

[morph999]

I bet the cop just wanted an excuse to pull you over. I doubt anyone called the police at all. Cops have those ready excuses for when the pull people over. They've got like 20 excuses that they memorize just for instances like that.

 

[neobeam]

i have been feeling good about the prognosis for the last 2 weeks.
but there's still some doubt,and concern.
it seems the law as stated, is as we believe it is .(i had a law student
read and see if i was correct in what i had planned).
he confirmed our belief that ,this will "do it".
-and he was impressed and happy about what i planned to do.
so ,thanx! and wish me luck...
i will appear at new jersey's helmetta court, wednesday- at 5:30 pm
to plead "the case".
and ,today i had a major battery failure . the problem pack is
remaining at 58.6v( i have 2 parallelled 48X10 stacks) and i hadda peddle the 70 lb
bike ,for a mile and a half!
seperated for diagnostic purposes...i have to get some "diodes,or even relays" ...
some passive lo power "battery bridging logic",or i fear parallel is gonna get me.
i did run the kelly (60 ma) for three days in the shed,and then charged for ride,i felt
as though it was less power than usual.we'll see thursday, when i've opened
the problem pack.(glad i got a "totally redundant spares kit")

 

[Doctorbass]

Never had any problem with Popo.. They stopped me 5 times but not arrested.. Every times they just wanted to get info on that bike they often crossed during patrol... lol

And sometimes that ended by; How much to get one? is that yu that build it?

Now I just wonder if i'm now still as safe as i was after me and my ebike have been broadcasted at an 30 minutes episode that appeared 12 times on TV during the last week and was watched over 1 200 000 peoples... :lol:

Doc

 

[wasp]

have any of you ever looked up what a law is compared to a act or statute ?
i screw with the cops all the time now they won't even try to get joinder from my person
so they leave me alone...
just food for thought

 

[mwkeefer]

***** EDITED - I noticed a few things upon a Glance which also may be helpful so I updated this post.

Neobeam,

This was on wikipedia:

1.) Under New Jersey law a motorized bicycle:
a.) "a pedal bicycle having a helper motor characterized:
1.) Either the maximum piston displacement (internal combustion ie, gasoline, etc) - is less than 50 cc.
or (note the OR as opposed to and or together with)
2.) Motor is rated at no more than 1.5 brake horsepower (this would be roughly 1.5hp on a typical bicycle with resistance, etc)
or (here we setup our eBike requirement, pay very close attention!)
3.) Powered by an electric drive motor and (here is the cincher... it's ambiguous, is this meaning "Powered By Electric Drive Motor and is capable of a maximum speed of no more thanXX"? or is the and in
addition to the above 2 conditions.) said bicycle is capable of a maximum speed of no more than 25 miles per hour on a flat surface." (a normal bicycle (even with my tired ass co go faster than 25mph on
flats.)


This would include E-bikes, meaning they must be titled and registered.
-Mike

**** WRONG - I was wrong....

By looking at the above writing and knowing the protection of the federal law, the states cannot abridge the basic rights of consumers to use their devices, IE: Electric Bicycles. This means they hopefully mean to say that the bicycle which is powered by an electric drive (no limit on power if you note the ors) cannot exceed 25mph. If this were to comply with the federal statute it must read, cannot exceed 25mph using power assist only, without pedaling with a 170 lb rider. NJ can loosen the reighns (they tried to make it look like they were) but really they could (it wouldn't stand the test) but they could write you for MV infraction if going downhill at 35 (somthing I do without a motor). They cannot (since your not a motor vehicle) ticket you under motor vehicle code so really - all of this is moot since your are not operating a motor vehicle as mandated by the feds and the states CANNOT define them as Motor Vehicles!

In the end... Don't sweat it!

-Mike