Why Donate??

I've only read the first page of this thread, but I think some people may be missing the point. By definition a donation and its amount is voluntary, otherwise it becomes a fee. I run a board that only has a couple of hundred members but is very busy. It is run on donations. Plenty of people will donate, but the majority don't. I purposefully keep it anonymous, but couldn't run the board without their help, and since they love it they pay to keep it going.

Now, going one step further, Richard stated clearly that after the board is funded the rest will go in to projects as he deems fit. This doesn't negate the nature of a donation, it just gives the potential donor a clear understanding of where his money might be going. Richard should be commended for this honesty as now people have more information available to them to help them come to a decision of whether they wish to donate, and how much they might be prepared to donate. University R&D Departments take donations don't they? Just think of yourself as a wealthy benefactor to your favorite University.

So on a small scale I don't think Richard is doing anything untoward in asking for donations to keep the board and his personal projects running, as well as other members projects. As a member I have personally saved myself considerable money from the boards existance and Richards and others input. I am donating, of my own free will, a fraction of what I have saved. I hope that Richard will raise enough money that some will flow down to other projects from members who have obvious value to offer in their own R&D. This is another bone of contention amongst people that I hope will get resolved satisfactorily, but I'm not going to wait until the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. My check is in the mail.
 
IIRC, the ES funded projects are 'open', yes? If so: then any can benefit or even profit, if inclined.
 
Ok, I hate to break the news, but this place is really subsisting on the bandwidth of a server he uses for other existing business purposes. In other words, additional bandwidth costs due to this place's existence = 0. The data storage is under a gig: Have you priced a gig recently? If his other businesses started increasing in their bandwidth allocation to the point of getting into ES's bandwidth, surely endless-sphere's bandwidth would be lower in priority and would be displaced likewise. So, it's not incurring any additional cost.
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Well if that's the case, I vote no thread should ever die. :mrgreen:

Actually, I could agree to a sorted peruse of the thread for items of value to ebike/moto relevance. I just feel like some good threads have fallen off over the years.

How about a sphere that rotates, and if you notice it spinning slow or even wobbling you could click on it to donate, which depending on the amount, it the speed of the globe! 8)
 
Not sure who posted this:

Ok, I hate to break the news, but this place is really subsisting on the bandwidth of a server he uses for other existing business purposes. In other words, additional bandwidth costs due to this place's existence = 0. The data storage is under a gig: Have you priced a gig recently? If his other businesses started increasing in their bandwidth allocation to the point of getting into ES's bandwidth, surely endless-sphere's bandwidth would be lower in priority and would be displaced likewise. So, it's not incurring any additional cost.
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In my experience bandwidth has nothing to do with it. Like I posted earlier I run a message board. I got booted off a shared server, not because of bandwidth but because of processing power, my users were hogging it all. :) I just upgraded even though I'm only using 10% of my available bandwidth so that I could benefit from more memory and faster processors. It is quite conceivable that a more powerful server is required to run this forum than would be required for the business pages that are hosted, and therefore could be seen as additional cost.
 
DaveAK said:
Not sure who posted this:

Ok, I hate to break the news, but this place is really subsisting on the bandwidth of a server he uses for other existing business purposes. In other words, additional bandwidth costs due to this place's existence = 0. The data storage is under a gig: Have you priced a gig recently? If his other businesses started increasing in their bandwidth allocation to the point of getting into ES's bandwidth, surely endless-sphere's bandwidth would be lower in priority and would be displaced likewise. So, it's not incurring any additional cost.
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In my experience bandwidth has nothing to do with it. Like I posted earlier I run a message board. I got booted off a shared server, not because of bandwidth but because of processing power, my users were hogging it all. :) I just upgraded even though I'm only using 10% of my available bandwidth so that I could benefit from more memory and faster processors. It is quite conceivable that a more powerful server is required to run this forum than would be required for the business pages that are hosted, and therefore could be seen as additional cost.
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'Twas me and, yes, I don't know how much processing power is required to run a forum. It's undoubtedly more than to run a standard website given all the active-server technology and scripts involved, but I wouldn't think that it'd be a problem in the modern world. It appears that the servers are owned by the owner and if processing power is really that much higher than other business activities, than it's possible to throttle back the processing power to the forum scripts if need be. I really doubt he chose his server on the basis of the computational power needed by the forums, so I wouldn't think that ES's existence imposed an additional cost in server purchasing.

However, we do get down to the thing needed to run that extra computation - electricity. It's possible that ES imposes significant extra electricity expenditure via increasing processing consumption, which would be an additional cost needed to cover. I wouldn't think it'd be that large, but I could be surprised.
 
Power, air conditioning resources, rack space, UPS/generator capacity, bandwidth does need to be accounted for, security patches need to be applied, software needs to be kept up to date, hardware will eventually fail. It's not an easy cost calculation, and it's likely marginal compared to the cost of the overall operation, but I wouldn't just wave my hand and discount it as insignificant.
 
The real cost is knightmb's time to keep everything running, not the hardware or electricity.


I was especially touched by an email I got from Naeem
You can see his bike here:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3983

Dear Fechter;

It is Naeem (numberonebikeslover) from Peshawar Pakistan . I’m living in a place where there is suicidal bombing all around. Life is tough and cruel. In such a situation I’ve been working on my electric bike long since. I am a man of very scares monthly income (120 USD/month) but I will indeed feel proud if I could donate some to a wonderful website which has given me the opportunity to express and share my self and ideas to promote the electric vehicle/bike community in the world. If my efforts have made a slightest difference in the world through your website I will be honoured to donate even if I have to sell my blood. I wish my words were able to explain what I emotionally feel for endless sphere and a great man like you. I pray for your prosperity and progress.


I wanted to put a suggession on the topic Endless-sphere funds but I think it is being disabled.

The suggession is that we all the members will advertise the website for giving adds. The same as yahoo and other websites E-S could run on adds. What do you think?


Yours Truly,

M. Naeem Zahid.
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Thanks Naeem, It's truly appreciated.
 
by fechter » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:15 pm

The real cost is knightmb's time to keep everything running, not the hardware or electricity.


I was especially touched by an email I got from Naeem
You can see his bike here:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3983

Dear Fechter;

It is Naeem (numberonebikeslover) from Peshawar Pakistan . I’m living in a place where there is suicidal bombing all around. Life is tough and cruel. In such a situation I’ve been working on my electric bike long since. I am a man of very scares monthly income (120 USD/month) but I will indeed feel proud if I could donate some to a wonderful website which has given me the opportunity to express and share my self and ideas to promote the electric vehicle/bike community in the world. If my efforts have made a slightest difference in the world through your website I will be honoured to donate even if I have to sell my blood. I wish my words were able to explain what I emotionally feel for endless sphere and a great man like you. I pray for your prosperity and progress.
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Thanks for sharing Naeem's email Fetcher. Bigmoose could say this better and hopefully will. Naeem (numberonebikeslover) is an inspiration and example for us all. Humble, generous, and full of life. Like his email, his bike build thread illustrates this. It is an engineering marvel in a totally unique way. If you haven't already, take a look at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3983.
 
I wholeheartedly support the idea of donating to cover the costs of running this site - it gives so many, so much, that it seems churlish not to make a contribution towards its support costs.

However, I'm put off donating by the idea that any monies collected could be directed to other activities. I fully accept that these other activities "may" benefit forum members some day, but I'd much rather have the freedom to choose which projects I support.

Until this is clarified, I'm afraid that I won't make a donation. If there was a way for me to donate to the forum costs only, then I'd pay up right now.

In case anyone feels I'm being mean, I have already bought a couple of BMSs from Gary, plus sundry other stuff from other members, and I'm more than happy to donate to any cause that I feel that I want to support.

Jeremy
 
Man, if we were all as serious about where our tax dollars go as we are about where our ES donations go, I think the world would be a much better place. :mrgreen:


Oh, and by the way Richard, it's Etard, not Mr. Tard. :lol:
 
The way I look at it, Fechter and KnightMB have already put in a significant amount of time and effort building ES, maintaining the web site, providing free support for the BMS (I could go on). I have personally derived hours of entertainment and learned a lot of valuable information here. If my small donation reimburses those efforts to some small extent, then I'm perfectly satisfied. As far as I'm concerned, it's their money and they can do what they like with it.

Not that it was a huge amount anyway. Don't spend it all in one place, guys. :lol:

On the other hand, Jeremy is one of the people who contribute a great deal of expertise and value to the site simply by virtue of his presence. So I'm not judging his decision to contribute or not, I'm simply recognizing that personally, I get more than I give here.
 
Tom Tom said:
Asking for money is fine, but one ought to disclose the actual costs involved.
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If the money is purposed for those activities, then yes, this would seem reasonable. Since the only additional cost for operation is Knightmb's time as Fecther has stated, it'd be nice to know what he's charging. :wink: (I'm sure everyone would enjoy a $100/hour wage.)

However, they state "all other moneys" are directed towards other development activities after costs are covered. Presumably, this means Fechter/Gary projects. Their projects benefit the sphere for many, so it doesn't sound unreasonable. But for reasons Jeremy Harris replies, I would like to direct my money to projects that I actually support. I don't mean to be harsh or overly self centered, but I don't personally benefit from BMS development so I'm not willing to relinquish my money in the support of that endeavor. If there were other projects, such as 2-speed transmissions or controller development, I'd love to support it.
 
Tom Tom said:
Asking for money is fine, but one ought to disclose the actual costs involved.
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See my earlier post:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16443&start=45#p241466

It's not an easy cost calculation.

'Course for almost everything we buy, the price is not set based on cost, but by what the service's value is to you. Cost only determines whether the vendor can continue doing business the way he's been doing it. If you find the service already provided to you has been valuable, and you can afford it, then you might choose to make a donation based on your own perception of ES' value to you. If not, then don't.
 
The op's question . why donate ?

Because i get immeasurable benefit from this place and wish to see it flourish . to that end the folks that operate it will get some money from me and will most likely continue to as long as the site is run in the open manner that it is.

I am no different than any other human being, id rather see my direct interest benefit from any gift of mine BUT the site itself represents a percentage of my interest and as i have not the time or skill to help administer the site i will gladly buck up . if the folks that are taking the money and running the site want to spend my donation on pet projects, doritos and skin mags i dont really care as long as the site maintains the open, positive atmosphere it currently has.

After that the remaining percentage of my donatable $ will go to the projects i like.

as its tax time im just sorting out the best way to (and how much i can) write it off.
how bout creating an nonprofit entity we can donate through will make it a breeze to write it off.
 
enoob said:
The op's question . why donate ?

Because i get immeasurable benefit from this place and wish to see it flourish . to that end the folks that operate it will get some money from me and will most likely continue to as long as the site is run in the open manner that it is.

I am no different than any other human being, id rather see my direct interest benefit from any gift of mine BUT the site itself represents a percentage of my interest and as i have not the time or skill to help administer the site i will gladly buck up . if the folks that are taking the money and running the site want to spend my donation on pet projects, doritos and skin mags i dont really care as long as the site maintains the open, positive atmosphere it currently has.

After that the remaining percentage of my donatable $ will go to the projects i like.

as its tax time im just sorting out the best way to (and how much i can) write it off.
how bout creating an nonprofit entity we can donate through will make it a breeze to write it off.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. I will donate for the good of the whole.
 
John in CR said:
def215,

No worries, some of us got thru those broke college days a long time ago. I'll be kicking in an extra $10 on def's behalf.
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thanks john. i really appreciate it that you could do something like that for me for a good cause

but ill stay true to my word that ill donate something to ES because i really want to, and despite what dennis said...lol. it might not be an extraordinary amount, but i really want to see this community prosper and grow. even though i dont have the greatest, most powerful and fastest ebike out there, i can appreciate what really goes in to one and how much R&D can go into a hobby.

so thank you fechter and knightmb for what you have done to make all of this happen.
 
I'm very impressed that this thread has gotten so much attention.

My impression of the key here is:

1. Donate if you wish, and can do so.

2. Don't donate if you do not want to, or can't afford to.

It's hard to not see some sense to giving members of this community the opportunity to donate. I can't really see anyone making a "softer sell" than the approach taken here. There isn't even abstract status being dangled to members..."donors" being identified as such, and by implication, anyone else considered lesser.


Bob
 
I have built one bike[operating very well thank you] and am in the process of building a second.....this was possible becausr of information garnered from this site.... the true importance of thi s site is SHARED INFORMATION,,,,, HOW CAN YOU PUT A $$$ VALUE ON KNOWLEDGE???? you ask a question and you get an intelligent and informed answer , not just from one member. but often several.......try getting that result from a politician!!! :D :mrgreen:
 
swbluto said:
I don't mean to be harsh or overly self centered, but I don't personally benefit from BMS development so I'm not willing to relinquish my money in the support of that endeavor. If there were other projects, such as 2-speed transmissions or controller development, I'd love to support it.
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Ah, yes things like that are on the to-do list.
I think I've promoted controller development quite a bit already, but a high powered sensorless controller made for bike motors would really be nice (one that works). The delta/wye motor switching scheme is sort of a two speed transmission. I still have plans for an automatic safety pre-charge/main disconnect circuit. But right now the BMS is getting most of my time and still has a ways to go. I think that damn thing is going to kill me.

Thanks again to everyone who contributes here (and I'm not talking about money).
 
Rich,

I am disgusted with your request for donations!

In retaliation ... I will continue to donate $1.00 USD every post UNTIL YOU CEASE AND DESIST!

You be warned! :evil:

(Oh Dear Lord! Does Thou Hast Not a Sense of Humor?) :roll:
(Is Not Thine BMS Worthy of Thine Devine Intervention?) :shock:

Am I Not on Drugs! 8)
 
Some choose to donate to this forum every day in one way or another and it is all by our own choice. Some have donated humor, entertainment among other things, but the best is education and experience . I see this as a way for some to donate in another way to this great Sphere if they so choose.
 
I donated.

Why i did that^

Well, because i'm very happy that a forum like that really exist. That's is what pushed me to discover this great hobby and share knowledge with similar peoples.

I 've always wonder : HOW I COULD PAY IT FORWARD for that... The only way i found is to help people with their projects.

But, the 25$ i donated is more to help and ensure this forum will survive the most time as it can and that the most people as possible could discover it!... ANYWAY some would think monet have nothing to do with....

Yes, I wish help to promote this forum. As i said previously, from now i probably refered and invited 300+ new members to this forum.

The more people we are, the more influent and powerfull we are. then, that help people making more ebikes conversion... and less using their cars.

This is not really complicated:

-Donation can help promote this forum
-Promote it will make more people discovering it
-More members = more ebikes
-More ebikes = less gas car on the road

= better place!

That's y opinion... it's not the absolute as well... but i still believe in that.

If people feel like me and would donate just to help in something.. then WHY not???

Fechter is a great exemple of gratitude about the time he already spent for the forum and the BMS project that many can now enjoy....

For me it's like when going to a restaurant and giving great tip because you feel great about the service you got and want to thanks about that.

It's nothing really complicated as well :wink:

If people want to donate.. Please stop trying to convince them they are wromg... If they feel great about what they got form this forum, and that they want to thanks for that, then leave them doing it ! It's their pleasure as well !

Doc
 
The momentum for donations is going very well, so when asked "Why Donate", here's a good response I can now say.

The next forum update (which will be soon as my free time allows), might just end with all the ads disappearing for good. I was never a fan of them anyway. But not to throw this topic off track, the donations that everyone has made so far are already being put to use and as it was said, if you want to donate, this is the way to do it.

For those interested in how much bandwidth this forum uses daily, I just checked yesterdays stats, over 43.2 gigabytes of data was transfered *out* from this forum in the form of post, pictures, files, whatever we all have put on this forum yesterday with a daily average between 30 to 60 gigabytes a day over the month. It's a good thing it's hosted on a fiber link :mrgreen:

Why Donate? Because it will have a positive impact for all of us in one way or another.
If not because of your own financial situation or beliefs; don't worry, you won't hurt our feelings. :cry:
 
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