Green Machine
100 kW
Optibike OB1 with a gigantic external additional battery (as in photo) and then im touring across USA this summer!!!
Would you trade your home built bike for an optibike?
- Thread starter Green Machine
- Start date
Optibike OB1 with a gigantic external additional battery (as in photo) and then im touring across USA this summer!!!
dogman dan
1 PW
Yeah, what every production ebike needs, mo battery. Give me a shout if you pass by New Mexico, I'm on I-10.
mabman
100 W
Check out the hill climbing ability of the Optibike unassisted about 5 minutes in to this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt0RUooD0-A&feature=channel_video_title Looks like the jogger won!
Green Machine
100 kW
man that was long boring video...
HE didnt know how to ride that bike properly he had just gotten it that day...1st gear was way too low for that incline...
He should have been in 5th or 6th...
BUt you can imagine how good that bike is in that 1st gear climbing some steep rugged trail...it has a chance to do it. My bmc flounders at low speed.
Remember that same 850 watt bike averaged 15 mph on a steep grade up to the top of pikes peak. 20 mile climb.
HE didnt know how to ride that bike properly he had just gotten it that day...1st gear was way too low for that incline...
He should have been in 5th or 6th...
BUt you can imagine how good that bike is in that 1st gear climbing some steep rugged trail...it has a chance to do it. My bmc flounders at low speed.
Remember that same 850 watt bike averaged 15 mph on a steep grade up to the top of pikes peak. 20 mile climb.
Jethro56
100 W
mabman said:
This is a rather interesting spin on his story.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik/2261913617.html
Green Machine
100 kW
Jethro56 said:
Yeah really....buy my bike as seen on youtube...you know i had so many drinks that i am thinking about making a ridiculous offer on that bike...i am going to go ahead and offer him 7k....lets see what he says...if he counters 7.5 i will take it in a heartbeat. I think that bike is awesome with the rohloff hub and direct drive and 20 ah....ah man i am going to make an offer and see where it goes.
Maybe that ebike summer roadtrip is in my cards afterall...
Green Machine
100 kW
Ok got response back from him...here's what he said:
Kepler
10 MW
I recon he will come back to you with another offer. Hard to move a bike like this I would think.
I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into this bike. Its a great bit of kit. If they could just make it look a bit more appealing. I am of cause a litte bias, but the stealth bikes just look like they mean business then backs it up with the business.
I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into this bike. Its a great bit of kit. If they could just make it look a bit more appealing. I am of cause a litte bias, but the stealth bikes just look like they mean business then backs it up with the business.
mabman
100 W
extremegreenmachine said:
Funny, he said he paid 10k for it in the boring video. Those are alot of accessories but not $3k worth especially in the used marketplace.
deerfencer
100 mW
A year or so ago Craig and Jim from Opti tried to get me to trade in my beloved modified Tidalforce S750X (Uma) by offering me a killer deal on an Opti with a generous trade-in allowance for Uma but I was simply not interested in swapping silent power for a less powerful buzz bomb. Yes, the Opti has some great features and is hard to beat for off/rough road comfort and serious extended climbing. (Of the handful of competing e-bikes doing the Pike's Peak climb last year I seem to remember only one other bike even finished, so you can't deny Opti's achievement in handling very steep long climbs.)
OTOH, as others have pointed out, service and repair is a huge bugaboo with these bikes, and there have been plenty of owner reports of serious glitches, some right out of the box. Culprits range from BMS to battery pack to motor--in fact in a recent case I know of the owner of a brand new $13K opti had two motors die on him within 500 miles! He was (understandably) very upset and returned the bike before the 90-day "free" test ride expired. In the end I think he spent around $700 in shipping costs, so hardly free.
The hardcore Opti owners you find on their Google forum remain very passionate about them. That said, many of the owners have become accustomed to trying to repair the bikes themselves rather than pay huge shipping costs and incur extra down time by sending the bike back to Boulder.
In the end it's gratifying to see that the e-bike world has grown big enough to include several high end models; more power to those who can afford them as they help push the technology envelope for all of us. Personally I'll stick with a powerful and silent rear hub ride given my preference for quiet weekend rides on country backroads. Last year I had multiple wildlife sightings, including black bear, and about two years ago I snuck up a hill above my house to find a fawn delightedly romping in the horse pasture at the top, the first time I've ever seen a deer at pure play. Sweet soul nectar!
OTOH, as others have pointed out, service and repair is a huge bugaboo with these bikes, and there have been plenty of owner reports of serious glitches, some right out of the box. Culprits range from BMS to battery pack to motor--in fact in a recent case I know of the owner of a brand new $13K opti had two motors die on him within 500 miles! He was (understandably) very upset and returned the bike before the 90-day "free" test ride expired. In the end I think he spent around $700 in shipping costs, so hardly free.
The hardcore Opti owners you find on their Google forum remain very passionate about them. That said, many of the owners have become accustomed to trying to repair the bikes themselves rather than pay huge shipping costs and incur extra down time by sending the bike back to Boulder.
In the end it's gratifying to see that the e-bike world has grown big enough to include several high end models; more power to those who can afford them as they help push the technology envelope for all of us. Personally I'll stick with a powerful and silent rear hub ride given my preference for quiet weekend rides on country backroads. Last year I had multiple wildlife sightings, including black bear, and about two years ago I snuck up a hill above my house to find a fawn delightedly romping in the horse pasture at the top, the first time I've ever seen a deer at pure play. Sweet soul nectar!
Overpriced POS.
My $2500 homemade electric chopper has 10x's the style, and 3x's the distance at the same speeds as that piece of "artwork" someone on another site said it best..
The ONLY reason to buy that bike is because of the "exclusivity" of it since they only make a couple dozen a year.
It's for those people that have money to burn and what to show it off.
I would NEVER buy one, unless it was priced at $1,000 and even then, I think I would have paid too much.
My $2500 homemade electric chopper has 10x's the style, and 3x's the distance at the same speeds as that piece of "artwork" someone on another site said it best..
The ONLY reason to buy that bike is because of the "exclusivity" of it since they only make a couple dozen a year.
It's for those people that have money to burn and what to show it off.
I would NEVER buy one, unless it was priced at $1,000 and even then, I think I would have paid too much.
Green Machine
100 kW
Wow i never heard that about optibike...
Really good to know...
I guess owners keep there grievances quiet...
I guess i would not buy optibike after reading that...thanks deerfencer. Reliability issues on a bike only servicable in colorado would serioulsy seriously suck.
And I agree with you on the silent issue....i just love quiet bmcs....sweet soul nector is a good description of riding my ebike.
I love riding on the beach and no one knowing im electric..i like passing cyclists and feeling like superman...i like blending in with nature...etc
Really good to know...
I guess owners keep there grievances quiet...
I guess i would not buy optibike after reading that...thanks deerfencer. Reliability issues on a bike only servicable in colorado would serioulsy seriously suck.
And I agree with you on the silent issue....i just love quiet bmcs....sweet soul nector is a good description of riding my ebike.
I love riding on the beach and no one knowing im electric..i like passing cyclists and feeling like superman...i like blending in with nature...etc
Green Machine
100 kW
Well....
I went a little crazy...had a good spell playing online poker (i am poker pro)
and i got a email from the optibike guy and he took my offer.
So i am looking now at my "almost" brand new optike 850r cha-ching.
This thing climbs like no other ebike... the rohloff works really well with the direct drive...
My maiden ride yesterday was 35 mile monster ride and i didnt even run it dead. Some of the hills i was climbing i could have never climbed with my bmc without walking beside it.
Comparing a bmc powered bike to the optike is too much to do in this one post...there are a lot of big advantages and disadvantages to both. Plus i need to ride more and do some rides side by side with other ebikes...we are doing ride tonight actually to the top of a local peek. For off road trail riding with big climbs i think the optibike is just tits.
I would argue that the opti is definitely worth the money for those that want this kind of thing..and definitely worth to me the price I paid (i got super good deal on used one). It is an adventure bike...it will get you places other ebikes would probably fry. One thing i reallly like about this bike is it has built in heat sensors that cut it off if the motor or controller or battery get too hot.
I have already talked to the optibike folks and amazingly they are like talking to a car company..they answer the phone and they talk optibike. They transferred the warranty over to me and said feel free to call if i have any issues or questions. Nothing like that anywhere for eibkes that i have seen.
I have just ordered an extra 36 volt 20amp hour lipo pack direct from china, and i am seriously considering all the way across the country ride this summer.
Anyway expect some optibike reviews and comparisons here on endless sphere in the near future
By the way i spent a lot of time studying the optibike google groups and i read about the guy who fried 2 motors in 500 miles, but he was refunded the purchase price of the bike and was supported the entire time...i fried 4 bmc's in less than 500 miles on one of my bikes....in fact that bike is broken now and had been probably broken waiting for parts for half the time i have owned it. i got nearly as much money into that bike than the optibike i just bought..and a lot of long excruciating powerless rides home...in fact one night stuck in the dark on a point reyes ridge i had to spend the night in the cold dark bushes...my wife called the ranger search and rescue team.
Anyway after reading through the google group optibike i decided that the bike deserves a serious shot. I dont know no other bike that is out doing 100 mile adventure rides...and the guys in the optigroup are doing just that and the bikes are surviving.
I went a little crazy...had a good spell playing online poker (i am poker pro)
and i got a email from the optibike guy and he took my offer.
So i am looking now at my "almost" brand new optike 850r cha-ching.
This thing climbs like no other ebike... the rohloff works really well with the direct drive...
My maiden ride yesterday was 35 mile monster ride and i didnt even run it dead. Some of the hills i was climbing i could have never climbed with my bmc without walking beside it.
Comparing a bmc powered bike to the optike is too much to do in this one post...there are a lot of big advantages and disadvantages to both. Plus i need to ride more and do some rides side by side with other ebikes...we are doing ride tonight actually to the top of a local peek. For off road trail riding with big climbs i think the optibike is just tits.
I would argue that the opti is definitely worth the money for those that want this kind of thing..and definitely worth to me the price I paid (i got super good deal on used one). It is an adventure bike...it will get you places other ebikes would probably fry. One thing i reallly like about this bike is it has built in heat sensors that cut it off if the motor or controller or battery get too hot.
I have already talked to the optibike folks and amazingly they are like talking to a car company..they answer the phone and they talk optibike. They transferred the warranty over to me and said feel free to call if i have any issues or questions. Nothing like that anywhere for eibkes that i have seen.
I have just ordered an extra 36 volt 20amp hour lipo pack direct from china, and i am seriously considering all the way across the country ride this summer.
Anyway expect some optibike reviews and comparisons here on endless sphere in the near future
By the way i spent a lot of time studying the optibike google groups and i read about the guy who fried 2 motors in 500 miles, but he was refunded the purchase price of the bike and was supported the entire time...i fried 4 bmc's in less than 500 miles on one of my bikes....in fact that bike is broken now and had been probably broken waiting for parts for half the time i have owned it. i got nearly as much money into that bike than the optibike i just bought..and a lot of long excruciating powerless rides home...in fact one night stuck in the dark on a point reyes ridge i had to spend the night in the cold dark bushes...my wife called the ranger search and rescue team.
Anyway after reading through the google group optibike i decided that the bike deserves a serious shot. I dont know no other bike that is out doing 100 mile adventure rides...and the guys in the optigroup are doing just that and the bikes are surviving.
MadRhino
100 GW
Try me.extremegreenmachine said:
25 grade at 40 mph.
Green Machine
100 kW
Yeah this thing will climb that 25 grade at 3-4 mph which is what makes it kind of unique...anyway I meant commercially available ebikes.
I am sure there are some RC builds that would do the same and have higher top speed to boot.
When you talk electric bikes and compare performance there should also be some kind of weight classification. An etech build makes a great climber at 40mph...but...
I do think the optibike is underpowered.... But for climbing real technical climbs at slow speed it does better than anything i have ridden or have even heard of...and it does so without the fear of burning it out.
Kind of a safe and sane climb a lot like a regular mountain bike...but noisy.
Anyway i will start a new thread with all these comparisons.
I am sure there are some RC builds that would do the same and have higher top speed to boot.
When you talk electric bikes and compare performance there should also be some kind of weight classification. An etech build makes a great climber at 40mph...but...
I do think the optibike is underpowered.... But for climbing real technical climbs at slow speed it does better than anything i have ridden or have even heard of...and it does so without the fear of burning it out.
Kind of a safe and sane climb a lot like a regular mountain bike...but noisy.
Anyway i will start a new thread with all these comparisons.
deerfencer
100 mW
extreme,
Great posts that highlight Opti's strengths (climbing, comfort, reliability, offroad competence) as well as its weaknesses (noise, lack of power/speed compared to higher-powered rides).
IMO Jim Turner and Craig Taber have done a superb job in producing and marketing a turnkey e-bike that fits the needs of a good chunk of the high end e-bike market. The Opti is a great long-run commuter as well as a kickass off-road toy, as the owners at their Google forum attest. And their customer support as you point out is in a class of its own.
So despite the fact that I'll probably never own an Opti due to my preference for a silent ride, I admire and applaud Opti for all the great advances they've made in producing a great robust ride, and I truly hope they continue to push the envelope for the benefit of us all.
Many happy miles,
Larry Hayes
Great posts that highlight Opti's strengths (climbing, comfort, reliability, offroad competence) as well as its weaknesses (noise, lack of power/speed compared to higher-powered rides).
IMO Jim Turner and Craig Taber have done a superb job in producing and marketing a turnkey e-bike that fits the needs of a good chunk of the high end e-bike market. The Opti is a great long-run commuter as well as a kickass off-road toy, as the owners at their Google forum attest. And their customer support as you point out is in a class of its own.
So despite the fact that I'll probably never own an Opti due to my preference for a silent ride, I admire and applaud Opti for all the great advances they've made in producing a great robust ride, and I truly hope they continue to push the envelope for the benefit of us all.
Many happy miles,
Larry Hayes
Green Machine
100 kW
After a long ride with both bikes bmc and opti...
The Bmc powered bike is just so much better than the opti.
its quieter and smoother and a magic carpet ride..its effortless like flying....like your this hyperconditioned athlete.
the optibike feels like a electric bike..the noise really gets to me..and I am constantly shifting and fiddling with the motor to be able to climb any type of incline, where the bmc just glides up it...you dont have to think about the bmc and it will chug you up %90 hills more efficiently and faster...and the rest you can just walk up powering bike at your side.
too me i have a much bigger sense of freedom on the bmc. And on the bmc i feel sneaky....i am rolling up silent on everyone like on a bicycle. The optibike because of its noise defines itself clearly as an electric vehicle and stands out like an electric motorcycle. People really seem to glare at you riding this bike in bikelane .
I just love my bmc bikes...
i got a feeling i am going to have to find a buyer for this opti. i had such big hopes for me and this bike
The Bmc powered bike is just so much better than the opti.
its quieter and smoother and a magic carpet ride..its effortless like flying....like your this hyperconditioned athlete.
the optibike feels like a electric bike..the noise really gets to me..and I am constantly shifting and fiddling with the motor to be able to climb any type of incline, where the bmc just glides up it...you dont have to think about the bmc and it will chug you up %90 hills more efficiently and faster...and the rest you can just walk up powering bike at your side.
too me i have a much bigger sense of freedom on the bmc. And on the bmc i feel sneaky....i am rolling up silent on everyone like on a bicycle. The optibike because of its noise defines itself clearly as an electric vehicle and stands out like an electric motorcycle. People really seem to glare at you riding this bike in bikelane .
I just love my bmc bikes...
i got a feeling i am going to have to find a buyer for this opti. i had such big hopes for me and this bike
deerfencer
100 mW
After waxing so passionately about the Opti methinks you owe us a much more detailed report/explanation as to why you feel the bmc is so much better. What gives?
Green Machine
100 kW
Ok just edited post while you were posting...your right i added more explanation above.deerfencer said:
Green Machine
100 kW
So the answer for me after riding the optibike alongside my trusty homebuild for 3 major rides....
I would definitely not trade my bmc powered homebuild for an optibike if the optibike had to be my main riding bike for the next few years.
Silence is golden...that is one thing i have really learned.
I am tired of getting ugly looks when people here the electric weed whacker like noise the optibike makes when riding around on trails.
But that being said...there are some conditions (hard core trail riding) that the opti is better suited if you can bear the noise.
Check out my new opti review thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=26567
I would definitely not trade my bmc powered homebuild for an optibike if the optibike had to be my main riding bike for the next few years.
Silence is golden...that is one thing i have really learned.
I am tired of getting ugly looks when people here the electric weed whacker like noise the optibike makes when riding around on trails.
But that being said...there are some conditions (hard core trail riding) that the opti is better suited if you can bear the noise.
Check out my new opti review thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=26567
recumpence
1 GW
Extremegreen,
I am glad someone here on the Sphere (oh, that rhymes!) has an Opti and is willing to review it.
I hope I do not offend you by saying this but, I have read two threads you have started in which you absolutely GUSH over the Opti. I mean, this is to the degree that I nearly reported the other thread as a spam thread doing nothing more than advertising for the bike and this is coming from someone who makes and sells drive systems on this board.
What I am driving at is, the tone of your threads is such that it is almost painful to read (at least for me). Again, I am really not trying to offend, but it kind of comes across as a very LOUD advertisement for the Opti. Now, you do not like the bike as much as before. It just sounds odd to me............
Anyway, would I trade any bike I have for an Opti? Never. I am not against the bike. But, I am against the absolutely OBSCENE prices they are asking for it. I mean, really, come on now, $12k for this thing is an absolute freaking INSULT!
Now, if you asked about trading for an M5, I may change my tune.
Matt
I am glad someone here on the Sphere (oh, that rhymes!) has an Opti and is willing to review it.
I hope I do not offend you by saying this but, I have read two threads you have started in which you absolutely GUSH over the Opti. I mean, this is to the degree that I nearly reported the other thread as a spam thread doing nothing more than advertising for the bike and this is coming from someone who makes and sells drive systems on this board.
What I am driving at is, the tone of your threads is such that it is almost painful to read (at least for me). Again, I am really not trying to offend, but it kind of comes across as a very LOUD advertisement for the Opti. Now, you do not like the bike as much as before. It just sounds odd to me............
Anyway, would I trade any bike I have for an Opti? Never. I am not against the bike. But, I am against the absolutely OBSCENE prices they are asking for it. I mean, really, come on now, $12k for this thing is an absolute freaking INSULT!
Now, if you asked about trading for an M5, I may change my tune.
Matt
Green Machine
100 kW
Matt,
I think a lot of guys on this group have missed the beauty in a bike like the opti. It is a very nice bike and i know a lot of people in my group have been trying to get there hands on one. It is very easy how a bike can get to 12k if you look into it. And yeah it was my dream bike so sorry for being "gushy". But what ebiker wouldnt be gushy about getting there hands on a super quality ebike you have been dreaming about for years? And it is totally obv that i am allowed to change my mind after actually owning and riding the bike. I think its typical in a forum for people to express excitement in what looks to be a great new product on paper. And i am serous time documenting my riding reports. What else are forums like this for?
The optibike is definitely a high quality bike worth the high price. THere is nothing out there that i have ever seen that compares to that quality. It has a price tag because it is expensive to build that bike HERE IN AMERICA.
As for your 12k price being ridiculous i think your wrong. consider the following:
1. The rohloff hub alone on this bike is 1500 bucks.
2. The suspension (fox front and back) would retail for 2000 bucks
3. Avid hydraulic brakes are 400 bucks.
4. misc high end bike parts too numberous too list would easily add up to 1000 retail
A starting frame with these kind of components would cost you 3k for a USED bike on ebay. Dont believe me? Look on ebay right now and see what USED rohloff bikes are selling for. Wake up wake up. Quality bike components are expensive and they are a bargain for the quality you are getting because they are in mass production. After riding with components like above on a 30mph ebike its hard to go back to junk...and trust me a judy shock feels like straight junk after riding a new fox shock...and avid carbon hydraulic brakes are freaking amazing and worth every dollar esp at high speeds, a rohloff is like god on wheels..i have 2 rohloffs now and absolutely swear by them and they are worth every penny if you can afford one. 1500 on a drivetrain that will last your lifetime way longer than the first bike you put it on and increase your pleasure every time you ride? WHy the f not? Trust me the rohloff is sweeter than sweet and having a mid drive system powered through it is an absolute dream in terms of reliability, smoothness, hill climbing, etc.
Now for the electrical components:
1. The new 26AH 36V battery pack weighs 11.2 pounds and is lico (lithium cobalt) technology. This is the densest battery available (same on tesla). I dont think anyone on this group has access to a pack like this and if they did i would love to talk to them. It is an absolutely amazing battery pack when you consider its warrantied for 30 thousand miles or 3 years. This is not your regular cheap lipo pack. Price for this pack? $2200. I would love to find a chinese source on such a pack so if anyone knows where i can get one for cheap let me know...but right now the only people you can get a quality pack like that is american based opti.
2. Motorized bottem bracket. I cannot even imagine how much it would cost to engineer a package this tight. This motor package is tiny and light weight and is a low center of gravity. I am sure to buy something this well engineered with this type of workmanship in a low production unit would cost big bucks. I bet opti is not getting this made less than 2k given they are a small production enterprise. I have never seen that kind of quality on a small ev ever. Take a look for yourself and just see how small that package is..and the fact it is one of the only bikes that can withstand a 2 hour gruelling uphill climb. I know for a fact my bmc couldnt take a 20 mile straight uphill climb like that without frequent stops to let everything cool down.
3. aluminium monocote frame. We were looking at the opti and it is definately one of the most attractive ebikes we have ever seen because everything is contained in this custom frame. You dont see cabling running around everywhere like on regular ebikes. THis shell looks expensive. I have had non ebikers look at this bike and guess it must have cost 10k. The fact that it is made in US in small numbers makes it more expensive. My guess is the opti frame costs opti atleast 1k.
4. Control system. The optibike has features i have never seen in an ebike before...for example 4 separate heat sensors which keep the bike from overheating and automatically cut off the motor. The battery managment, charge control is the best i have seen. I have no idea how much it cost to make and wire all that here in america...but i bet it was expensive.
5. Real technical support. Obv it costs money to have someone dealing with users technical issues all day long, and opti has that. Americans picking up the phone all day.
Anyway when you talk about an expensive bike being insulting, i think you just dont understand what it costs to build a quality bike from mostly usa components here in the USA. I have 2 bike builds that cost me 6k to build using used components, imported chinese components, etc so i know how things can add up quick. And i think its worth the quality you get to pay 6k rather than try to get away with spending 1k and coming up with something much much less. I have ridden cheap bikes and i have ridden expensive bike and too me the cheap bikes are just not there yet for the type of riding i want to do. Even my expensive bikes are barely at the grade i expect for range, speed, reliability and comfort. i ride 150 miles hard riding every week i need a quality bike. And Just because my bike cost 6k doesnt make me stupid..i just appreciate quality. I like my bikes to look good as well..and to build a bike that looks good, performs well, is lightweight, and reliable costs bank. ANd i appreciate the optibike cuz its most definatly a quality bike. My guess is the optibike cost minium 8k to produce...so selling one for 12k is not insulting or out of line. Especially since Optibike has an AMERICAN workforce it needs to feed. I think you are being insulting by attacking the 12k price tag without ever seeing an optibike. I think what is insulting is all the chinese garbage thats out there selling for less than 1k ruining the market for good ole usa products like the Optibike. I am with donald trump in that we should be taxing the hell out of all chinese imports the same as the europeans do. Our free trade agreement with china sucks ass and is not fair, and makes it hard for america to make anything...and if they do...spoiled consumers complain about the high price. It use to cost 7k for a good television set...and i am talking just 5 years ago.
Right now basically every bike i have seen coming straight from china is straight garbage compared to the optibike...period. Garbage costs less..especially when made in china.
I am sorry if i am offending you matt...but it just makes me sick when people complain about made in USA products that are just so definitely and obviously better than there chinese counterparts (enjoy it while you can) and then at the same time wonder why the usa economy is going into the pits and why there house price keeps falling....and yeah house prices will continue to fall and china will continue to take over with american buy cheap attitude. I think any company producing its own product and hiring american workers in this country should be applauded right now...companies like opti are heroes in my mind.
Out of curiosity are the products you offer made here or made in china? Are you an importer or a producer?
Cuz if your producer why dont you just make a motorized bottom bracket system like the opti at a dirt cheap price if its so easy? Why not make an optibke clone out of your garage and sale it on ebay or off your website for 5k? I am sure a lot would buy it at 5k if you can reach optibike quality but my guess is you wont even get close for 5k...because if it is so easy why doesnt someone on this group put one of there quality bikes for sale on the commercial market? A great example is there is a smart college kid who built a carbon fiber bmc powered bike here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24253
He had loads of people wanting to buy a clone of this since he is this poor college kid who build one of the best cleanest builds anyone has seen here on a budget...so es'ers saw blood and said how much to build us one thinking they are going to get it for 2k or something. The kid came back with a non carbon fiber version would cost 7k if he got enough orders and everyone just kind of went quiet...but trust me thats what it costs to build something of that kind of quality and still make just a little profit...especially considering warranty support after the product is sold. Americans are a pain in the ass and expect too much when they pay a few g's.
The problem is its damn expensive right now to build a quality bike..and the warranty issues will eat you alive if your product is not good and you dont hire people for support. The fact is no commercial bike is even close to optibike quality and i will bet you a thousand dollars on that issue..i say again not even close. But the problem is that kind of quality that is also made in america costs $$$$$....get over it..
Its very offensive to me when you attack american companies for ripping us off for just charging what it costs to build something here and pay american workers a reasonable rate...at least give the product a chance because the USA does need to manufacture something. Calling the price insulting when there are people who have paid the money and are happy with there purchase is very insulting to those of us who decided to buy one.
And after saying all that i do like my bmc build better..and not because it is better made than the opti because it is most definitely not.
I like the performance and the silence of it.
And I am sure that opti with a few modifications could make there bike do 40mph but they dont because of the liability issues an american company faces have chosen not to.
I think a lot of guys on this group have missed the beauty in a bike like the opti. It is a very nice bike and i know a lot of people in my group have been trying to get there hands on one. It is very easy how a bike can get to 12k if you look into it. And yeah it was my dream bike so sorry for being "gushy". But what ebiker wouldnt be gushy about getting there hands on a super quality ebike you have been dreaming about for years? And it is totally obv that i am allowed to change my mind after actually owning and riding the bike. I think its typical in a forum for people to express excitement in what looks to be a great new product on paper. And i am serous time documenting my riding reports. What else are forums like this for?
The optibike is definitely a high quality bike worth the high price. THere is nothing out there that i have ever seen that compares to that quality. It has a price tag because it is expensive to build that bike HERE IN AMERICA.
As for your 12k price being ridiculous i think your wrong. consider the following:
1. The rohloff hub alone on this bike is 1500 bucks.
2. The suspension (fox front and back) would retail for 2000 bucks
3. Avid hydraulic brakes are 400 bucks.
4. misc high end bike parts too numberous too list would easily add up to 1000 retail
A starting frame with these kind of components would cost you 3k for a USED bike on ebay. Dont believe me? Look on ebay right now and see what USED rohloff bikes are selling for. Wake up wake up. Quality bike components are expensive and they are a bargain for the quality you are getting because they are in mass production. After riding with components like above on a 30mph ebike its hard to go back to junk...and trust me a judy shock feels like straight junk after riding a new fox shock...and avid carbon hydraulic brakes are freaking amazing and worth every dollar esp at high speeds, a rohloff is like god on wheels..i have 2 rohloffs now and absolutely swear by them and they are worth every penny if you can afford one. 1500 on a drivetrain that will last your lifetime way longer than the first bike you put it on and increase your pleasure every time you ride? WHy the f not? Trust me the rohloff is sweeter than sweet and having a mid drive system powered through it is an absolute dream in terms of reliability, smoothness, hill climbing, etc.
Now for the electrical components:
1. The new 26AH 36V battery pack weighs 11.2 pounds and is lico (lithium cobalt) technology. This is the densest battery available (same on tesla). I dont think anyone on this group has access to a pack like this and if they did i would love to talk to them. It is an absolutely amazing battery pack when you consider its warrantied for 30 thousand miles or 3 years. This is not your regular cheap lipo pack. Price for this pack? $2200. I would love to find a chinese source on such a pack so if anyone knows where i can get one for cheap let me know...but right now the only people you can get a quality pack like that is american based opti.
2. Motorized bottem bracket. I cannot even imagine how much it would cost to engineer a package this tight. This motor package is tiny and light weight and is a low center of gravity. I am sure to buy something this well engineered with this type of workmanship in a low production unit would cost big bucks. I bet opti is not getting this made less than 2k given they are a small production enterprise. I have never seen that kind of quality on a small ev ever. Take a look for yourself and just see how small that package is..and the fact it is one of the only bikes that can withstand a 2 hour gruelling uphill climb. I know for a fact my bmc couldnt take a 20 mile straight uphill climb like that without frequent stops to let everything cool down.
3. aluminium monocote frame. We were looking at the opti and it is definately one of the most attractive ebikes we have ever seen because everything is contained in this custom frame. You dont see cabling running around everywhere like on regular ebikes. THis shell looks expensive. I have had non ebikers look at this bike and guess it must have cost 10k. The fact that it is made in US in small numbers makes it more expensive. My guess is the opti frame costs opti atleast 1k.
4. Control system. The optibike has features i have never seen in an ebike before...for example 4 separate heat sensors which keep the bike from overheating and automatically cut off the motor. The battery managment, charge control is the best i have seen. I have no idea how much it cost to make and wire all that here in america...but i bet it was expensive.
5. Real technical support. Obv it costs money to have someone dealing with users technical issues all day long, and opti has that. Americans picking up the phone all day.
Anyway when you talk about an expensive bike being insulting, i think you just dont understand what it costs to build a quality bike from mostly usa components here in the USA. I have 2 bike builds that cost me 6k to build using used components, imported chinese components, etc so i know how things can add up quick. And i think its worth the quality you get to pay 6k rather than try to get away with spending 1k and coming up with something much much less. I have ridden cheap bikes and i have ridden expensive bike and too me the cheap bikes are just not there yet for the type of riding i want to do. Even my expensive bikes are barely at the grade i expect for range, speed, reliability and comfort. i ride 150 miles hard riding every week i need a quality bike. And Just because my bike cost 6k doesnt make me stupid..i just appreciate quality. I like my bikes to look good as well..and to build a bike that looks good, performs well, is lightweight, and reliable costs bank. ANd i appreciate the optibike cuz its most definatly a quality bike. My guess is the optibike cost minium 8k to produce...so selling one for 12k is not insulting or out of line. Especially since Optibike has an AMERICAN workforce it needs to feed. I think you are being insulting by attacking the 12k price tag without ever seeing an optibike. I think what is insulting is all the chinese garbage thats out there selling for less than 1k ruining the market for good ole usa products like the Optibike. I am with donald trump in that we should be taxing the hell out of all chinese imports the same as the europeans do. Our free trade agreement with china sucks ass and is not fair, and makes it hard for america to make anything...and if they do...spoiled consumers complain about the high price. It use to cost 7k for a good television set...and i am talking just 5 years ago.
Right now basically every bike i have seen coming straight from china is straight garbage compared to the optibike...period. Garbage costs less..especially when made in china.
I am sorry if i am offending you matt...but it just makes me sick when people complain about made in USA products that are just so definitely and obviously better than there chinese counterparts (enjoy it while you can) and then at the same time wonder why the usa economy is going into the pits and why there house price keeps falling....and yeah house prices will continue to fall and china will continue to take over with american buy cheap attitude. I think any company producing its own product and hiring american workers in this country should be applauded right now...companies like opti are heroes in my mind.
Out of curiosity are the products you offer made here or made in china? Are you an importer or a producer?
Cuz if your producer why dont you just make a motorized bottom bracket system like the opti at a dirt cheap price if its so easy? Why not make an optibke clone out of your garage and sale it on ebay or off your website for 5k? I am sure a lot would buy it at 5k if you can reach optibike quality but my guess is you wont even get close for 5k...because if it is so easy why doesnt someone on this group put one of there quality bikes for sale on the commercial market? A great example is there is a smart college kid who built a carbon fiber bmc powered bike here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24253
He had loads of people wanting to buy a clone of this since he is this poor college kid who build one of the best cleanest builds anyone has seen here on a budget...so es'ers saw blood and said how much to build us one thinking they are going to get it for 2k or something. The kid came back with a non carbon fiber version would cost 7k if he got enough orders and everyone just kind of went quiet...but trust me thats what it costs to build something of that kind of quality and still make just a little profit...especially considering warranty support after the product is sold. Americans are a pain in the ass and expect too much when they pay a few g's.
The problem is its damn expensive right now to build a quality bike..and the warranty issues will eat you alive if your product is not good and you dont hire people for support. The fact is no commercial bike is even close to optibike quality and i will bet you a thousand dollars on that issue..i say again not even close. But the problem is that kind of quality that is also made in america costs $$$$$....get over it..
Its very offensive to me when you attack american companies for ripping us off for just charging what it costs to build something here and pay american workers a reasonable rate...at least give the product a chance because the USA does need to manufacture something. Calling the price insulting when there are people who have paid the money and are happy with there purchase is very insulting to those of us who decided to buy one.
And after saying all that i do like my bmc build better..and not because it is better made than the opti because it is most definitely not.
I like the performance and the silence of it.
And I am sure that opti with a few modifications could make there bike do 40mph but they dont because of the liability issues an american company faces have chosen not to.
recumpence
1 GW
Wow, more gushing. Dude, you need to chill. I did not attack anyone. It seems to me the only comments that you are willing to entertain are positive. I had no intent to offend you as I mentioned earlier.
I am being gentle here because I realize you are relatively new to the forum and, yes, I do understand the excitement of obtaining a new high-tech toy.
However, yes, I DO know what it takes to build a high-end bike right here in America. How? I build boutique bikes myself (extremely high-end bikes). I have built over a dozen bikes for resale and I have built 60+ reduction systems (I have lost exact count) for these bikes that are all far better performing and far cheaper than the Opti system. They have all been made right here in American. That is why I chose to comment on this myself (rather than someone else) because I know that of which I speak. And, no, I am not giving this stuff away just to prove it can be done cheaply. Heck, I make a pretty penny on my bikes.
Also, what do you mean by "Commercial" E-bike? One that is made by a company and is for sale? Or one that is mass marketed? There are many guys here who build bikes to resell who can beat the Opti at 1/2 the cost (myself included).
Here are some numbers for you;
High end White Brothers or other fork fork $1,200. Made in America
High end rear shock $350. Many are made in America
High end suspension frame (you need to be careful on this because you can get stupid crazy with downhill racing stuff) $1,000
High end motor (8kw) $700. Made in America
Controller $300 Made in America
Lipo pack (every bit as good as LiCo and better in some respects) 44v nominal 20ah $450 shipped
High end Zivan charger $575 (800 watts)
Wheels $500
Brakes $400
Cranks $200
Misc $300
other drive system bits to get it all running $500 (very generous number)
That brings the total to under $7k and this is for a 8kw bike using super high-end stuff.
I did not chime into this thread to push my own projects. So, I will not link you to any of my builds. But, do some research, of all people, I am one of those who do know, from personal experience, what it takes to build a high-end ebike, far beyond what the Optibike does.
I am not against the bike, as I said before. I am thrilled that there is a company building high-end e-bikes for sale to the masses. However, they are WAY overpriced, period! And this is coming from one who builds some of the most expensive boutique bikes out there. So, trust me, I know.
You are very welcome on this site and I am glad to have you here. However, this may not be the best site to ask this question. The Sphere is THE high-end E-bike site. Many of us here have gone way beyond the Opti with our own builds at a small faction of the price. There are guys here who build their own controllers, motors, drive systems (not only me), frames, wheels, etc, etc, etc. So, there are few of us here that would answer "Yes" to your question.
I am sorry to offend you. That was not my intention, as I stated in my first comment. However, you need to be ready and willing to accept negative comments especially if they are true.
One last item, though this site is not a good place to ask about the Opti as a high-end bike, if you asked this question on most other E-bike forums, it would go something like this;
"Would you trade your $3k home built E-bike for a Optibike?" and the answer would be "$3k home built bike?! Holy **** I cannot imagine anyone spending that much on a home-built bike. I only have $200 in mine......"
The point is, the forum has a greater number of guys with money to spend on E-bike than most other forums (there are those on tight budgets too). And, I consider myself one of the most liberal spenders on my bikes. However, $12k is obscene even to us here!
The most money I have ever personally spent on one E-bike is my Yellow trike in my Avatar. It is arguably one of the most advanced (runnable) tadpole trikes in the world today and that trike only cost me $6k and it uses the highest-end components available anywhere for their intended purpose.
Again, I am not trying to offend. I just spoke what many here are thinking, but are not willing to say. Negative comments should be taken for what they are, not personally. The issue I have is what you get for the money, that is all.
Oh, lastly, when you build a bike from components, it always costs more than a complete bike. Yet, the example I gave was just that, individual components. A OEM company receives products at a deep discount (up to 40%). Therefore, the build cost of the Opti is not what you may think. I bet the costly part was their patents and tooling cost. That still does not change the fact that the technology does not reflect the price.
I am sorry if that offends. No offense was, or is, intended.
I hope you still feel welcome here.
Matt
I am being gentle here because I realize you are relatively new to the forum and, yes, I do understand the excitement of obtaining a new high-tech toy.
However, yes, I DO know what it takes to build a high-end bike right here in America. How? I build boutique bikes myself (extremely high-end bikes). I have built over a dozen bikes for resale and I have built 60+ reduction systems (I have lost exact count) for these bikes that are all far better performing and far cheaper than the Opti system. They have all been made right here in American. That is why I chose to comment on this myself (rather than someone else) because I know that of which I speak. And, no, I am not giving this stuff away just to prove it can be done cheaply. Heck, I make a pretty penny on my bikes.
Also, what do you mean by "Commercial" E-bike? One that is made by a company and is for sale? Or one that is mass marketed? There are many guys here who build bikes to resell who can beat the Opti at 1/2 the cost (myself included).
Here are some numbers for you;
High end White Brothers or other fork fork $1,200. Made in America
High end rear shock $350. Many are made in America
High end suspension frame (you need to be careful on this because you can get stupid crazy with downhill racing stuff) $1,000
High end motor (8kw) $700. Made in America
Controller $300 Made in America
Lipo pack (every bit as good as LiCo and better in some respects) 44v nominal 20ah $450 shipped
High end Zivan charger $575 (800 watts)
Wheels $500
Brakes $400
Cranks $200
Misc $300
other drive system bits to get it all running $500 (very generous number)
That brings the total to under $7k and this is for a 8kw bike using super high-end stuff.
I did not chime into this thread to push my own projects. So, I will not link you to any of my builds. But, do some research, of all people, I am one of those who do know, from personal experience, what it takes to build a high-end ebike, far beyond what the Optibike does.
I am not against the bike, as I said before. I am thrilled that there is a company building high-end e-bikes for sale to the masses. However, they are WAY overpriced, period! And this is coming from one who builds some of the most expensive boutique bikes out there. So, trust me, I know.
You are very welcome on this site and I am glad to have you here. However, this may not be the best site to ask this question. The Sphere is THE high-end E-bike site. Many of us here have gone way beyond the Opti with our own builds at a small faction of the price. There are guys here who build their own controllers, motors, drive systems (not only me), frames, wheels, etc, etc, etc. So, there are few of us here that would answer "Yes" to your question.
I am sorry to offend you. That was not my intention, as I stated in my first comment. However, you need to be ready and willing to accept negative comments especially if they are true.
One last item, though this site is not a good place to ask about the Opti as a high-end bike, if you asked this question on most other E-bike forums, it would go something like this;
"Would you trade your $3k home built E-bike for a Optibike?" and the answer would be "$3k home built bike?! Holy **** I cannot imagine anyone spending that much on a home-built bike. I only have $200 in mine......"
The point is, the forum has a greater number of guys with money to spend on E-bike than most other forums (there are those on tight budgets too). And, I consider myself one of the most liberal spenders on my bikes. However, $12k is obscene even to us here!
The most money I have ever personally spent on one E-bike is my Yellow trike in my Avatar. It is arguably one of the most advanced (runnable) tadpole trikes in the world today and that trike only cost me $6k and it uses the highest-end components available anywhere for their intended purpose.
Again, I am not trying to offend. I just spoke what many here are thinking, but are not willing to say. Negative comments should be taken for what they are, not personally. The issue I have is what you get for the money, that is all.
Oh, lastly, when you build a bike from components, it always costs more than a complete bike. Yet, the example I gave was just that, individual components. A OEM company receives products at a deep discount (up to 40%). Therefore, the build cost of the Opti is not what you may think. I bet the costly part was their patents and tooling cost. That still does not change the fact that the technology does not reflect the price.
I am sorry if that offends. No offense was, or is, intended.
I hope you still feel welcome here.
Matt
j3tch1u
10 kW
someone drank the kool-aid :lol:
Green Machine
100 kW
Hey matt,
Like i said in my post i dont want to offend you either. And i want to tread carefully (or gently) as you put it because for all i know from your tone i may be rubbing elbows with the endless sphere police.
And so you know i am no ebike newcomer so lets drop the condescending tones...i sold literally 2 million dollars worth of ebikes and scooters in 2003 in my store on market street in SF, put thousands of electric vehicles on the road, and know very well the difference between garage built products and factory made products. I know many "boutique builders" and it takes a lot to impress me in terms of a bike build. I was the first to offer the lithium powered ebike and was the first to see a few houses burn down because of the products i sold.
So to make a few points clear...
The optibike sales on there website for 12k but they usually discount it to 10k through special offers haggling etc. So lets call it a 10k bike.
And when i am talking commercial products i am talking...bikes like a2b, ezz quando, currie, even stealth bomber. Companies with a website, and a real tangible product. If you are going to offer a product commercially you have had to thought of all the issues. I dont count all the bikes that guys are strapping together in there garage. Those are cool but there are real problems selling those types of products to the public.
For example you mentioned your tadpole bike that cost 6500 parts...adding a thousand for labour, a thousand more for your development time, your at 8500 before you even consider company profit. So thats optibike like pricing....so how well do you think your tapole is going to stack up to the optibike? I really like that machine but i think you going to have to "tune it down" before you can sale to the general public...same way as optibike sales a bike that purposely doesnt go much faster than a regular bike. And i havent seen your tadpole so i cant judge..but we'd have to see how it stands up quality wise to the optibike if they are both tuned down to safe and sane speeds...have you ever seen up close or ridden an optibike?
And if your going to sale as is....a 40 mph heavy machine which would be great...but in your heart of hearts could you even sale such a product and sleep at night when it comes to product liability? What happens the first time someone gets killed or crippled doing 40 mph on that thing? Do you own a house? So do you think you can find an insurance company to offer product liability coverage on a vehicle thats not even street legal and admittedly super dangerous? What do you think that coverage would cost per year and how many vehicles do you think you are going to sale...i am thinking the numbers would be 10k a year for product liability and 10 tadpole trikes sold a year so add 1k to your costs right there. What about warranty and customer support? How much is your time worth dealing with sales and support questions all day...you got to add that to your cost of each bike.
The argument is nothing new that we can all strap components to a commercially available bicycle and get super performance out of it....but can you really sale such a product with all the reliability, safety, warranty, and liability issues. If you do your going to have to mark that bike up from your material price atleast 100 percent. So who knows maybe your tadpole bike would cost more like 15 thousand....and then we could call you ridiculous.
`
So Matt why cant you do this..please post a link to your bike that competes with the optibike so we can compare. The optibike has all its cards on the table etc and we know its specs. Dont be afraid of spamming or whatever you call it...i really like to see your bike that beats optibike for half price. Advertise freely on this thread but lets see what is for sale...not what you built for yourself.
I have seen and sold many many bikes including "boutique bikes" which i am selling a few right now...but i have never seen anything as tightly built as the optibike. I would describe it as "clean". It looks like it cost 10k period...and every other high end bike i have seen looks like it was built in someones garage.
Regarding batterues...you said this:
Lipo pack (every bit as good as LiCo and better in some respects) 44v nominal 20ah $450 shipped
Where do you get a pack like that which compares to opti numbers i gave you on there lico pack...36 volt 26ah 11.2 pounds....30,000 mile warranty
If you have such a pack i will take 10 of your 44v 20 ah packs at 450 shipped....shit i will give you 600 just you support warranty. Does that include bms by the way?? How do you charge lipo at 800 watts...are you insane??? No offence but are you trying to burn your customers houses down? You mentioned in your pricing 7k but you didnt mention driveline components or battery holder. How do you plan to hold your battery? In a rack bag? Duct taped to the frame? What is the way your going to deal with fire issues when selling lipo packs strappped to the bike? What kind of frame do you plan to build to house that battery and components...please add that to the 7k and add labour...and then tell us what you can sell that bike for.
So lets say you produce that bike and add all the costs of labour liability etc....how are you gonna keep every tom dick and harry from copying your design since all your offering is components strapped to a frame? Dont you see the value in building a proprietary frame with the original intention of being an ebike so that you are not just forking money to china for a frame made to be a bicycle?
Opti by the way has a proprietary monocote frame designed perfectly to hold there battery and components keeping them fire safe and protected.
Anyway just a few points...dont want to be antagonistic or anything...i just like how the optibike is built and have never seen anything like it from any other bike...but please....list links to the bikes you have for sale please so we can compare...with prices please. And remember i already have 2 6k boutique bikes (hub powered compoenents strapped together) that are what i think you are describing which i have been comparing in this thread the entire time...so i dont know if your suggesting anything different than what i have been saying the whole time. I think your just attacking the idea that i like the build of the Optibike and think its worth the money given the american workmanship etc.
Like i said in my post i dont want to offend you either. And i want to tread carefully (or gently) as you put it because for all i know from your tone i may be rubbing elbows with the endless sphere police.
And so you know i am no ebike newcomer so lets drop the condescending tones...i sold literally 2 million dollars worth of ebikes and scooters in 2003 in my store on market street in SF, put thousands of electric vehicles on the road, and know very well the difference between garage built products and factory made products. I know many "boutique builders" and it takes a lot to impress me in terms of a bike build. I was the first to offer the lithium powered ebike and was the first to see a few houses burn down because of the products i sold.
So to make a few points clear...
The optibike sales on there website for 12k but they usually discount it to 10k through special offers haggling etc. So lets call it a 10k bike.
And when i am talking commercial products i am talking...bikes like a2b, ezz quando, currie, even stealth bomber. Companies with a website, and a real tangible product. If you are going to offer a product commercially you have had to thought of all the issues. I dont count all the bikes that guys are strapping together in there garage. Those are cool but there are real problems selling those types of products to the public.
For example you mentioned your tadpole bike that cost 6500 parts...adding a thousand for labour, a thousand more for your development time, your at 8500 before you even consider company profit. So thats optibike like pricing....so how well do you think your tapole is going to stack up to the optibike? I really like that machine but i think you going to have to "tune it down" before you can sale to the general public...same way as optibike sales a bike that purposely doesnt go much faster than a regular bike. And i havent seen your tadpole so i cant judge..but we'd have to see how it stands up quality wise to the optibike if they are both tuned down to safe and sane speeds...have you ever seen up close or ridden an optibike?
And if your going to sale as is....a 40 mph heavy machine which would be great...but in your heart of hearts could you even sale such a product and sleep at night when it comes to product liability? What happens the first time someone gets killed or crippled doing 40 mph on that thing? Do you own a house? So do you think you can find an insurance company to offer product liability coverage on a vehicle thats not even street legal and admittedly super dangerous? What do you think that coverage would cost per year and how many vehicles do you think you are going to sale...i am thinking the numbers would be 10k a year for product liability and 10 tadpole trikes sold a year so add 1k to your costs right there. What about warranty and customer support? How much is your time worth dealing with sales and support questions all day...you got to add that to your cost of each bike.
The argument is nothing new that we can all strap components to a commercially available bicycle and get super performance out of it....but can you really sale such a product with all the reliability, safety, warranty, and liability issues. If you do your going to have to mark that bike up from your material price atleast 100 percent. So who knows maybe your tadpole bike would cost more like 15 thousand....and then we could call you ridiculous.
`
So Matt why cant you do this..please post a link to your bike that competes with the optibike so we can compare. The optibike has all its cards on the table etc and we know its specs. Dont be afraid of spamming or whatever you call it...i really like to see your bike that beats optibike for half price. Advertise freely on this thread but lets see what is for sale...not what you built for yourself.
I have seen and sold many many bikes including "boutique bikes" which i am selling a few right now...but i have never seen anything as tightly built as the optibike. I would describe it as "clean". It looks like it cost 10k period...and every other high end bike i have seen looks like it was built in someones garage.
Regarding batterues...you said this:
Lipo pack (every bit as good as LiCo and better in some respects) 44v nominal 20ah $450 shipped
Where do you get a pack like that which compares to opti numbers i gave you on there lico pack...36 volt 26ah 11.2 pounds....30,000 mile warranty
If you have such a pack i will take 10 of your 44v 20 ah packs at 450 shipped....shit i will give you 600 just you support warranty. Does that include bms by the way?? How do you charge lipo at 800 watts...are you insane??? No offence but are you trying to burn your customers houses down? You mentioned in your pricing 7k but you didnt mention driveline components or battery holder. How do you plan to hold your battery? In a rack bag? Duct taped to the frame? What is the way your going to deal with fire issues when selling lipo packs strappped to the bike? What kind of frame do you plan to build to house that battery and components...please add that to the 7k and add labour...and then tell us what you can sell that bike for.
So lets say you produce that bike and add all the costs of labour liability etc....how are you gonna keep every tom dick and harry from copying your design since all your offering is components strapped to a frame? Dont you see the value in building a proprietary frame with the original intention of being an ebike so that you are not just forking money to china for a frame made to be a bicycle?
Opti by the way has a proprietary monocote frame designed perfectly to hold there battery and components keeping them fire safe and protected.
Anyway just a few points...dont want to be antagonistic or anything...i just like how the optibike is built and have never seen anything like it from any other bike...but please....list links to the bikes you have for sale please so we can compare...with prices please. And remember i already have 2 6k boutique bikes (hub powered compoenents strapped together) that are what i think you are describing which i have been comparing in this thread the entire time...so i dont know if your suggesting anything different than what i have been saying the whole time. I think your just attacking the idea that i like the build of the Optibike and think its worth the money given the american workmanship etc.
