WSJ, NYC and ebikes

[sk8norcal]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730804576319074060030458.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Electric bikes are increasingly found zipping noiselessly along city streets. They are particularly popular among restaurant delivery workers.

There's just one thing: They're illegal.

Now, some community groups are pushing for police to crack down on electric bikes. They say that the battery-powered bikes, which can travel at higher speeds than most human-powered bikes, pose a hazard.

Restaurant deliverymen zipping around town on electric bikes are an increasingly common sight, so Urban Gardner Columnist Ralph Gardner set out to test a new breed of electric bikes on busy Midtown streets.

In Forest Hills and Rego Park in Queens, members of the 112th Precinct Community Council have asked police to step up education and enforcement with regard to all illegal cycling practices, especially electric bikes.

On the Upper East Side, the local community board recently passed a resolution forwarded to local legislators recommending that e-bikes be treated as automobiles, requiring them to be registered.

"There's a general concern that people have had about bicycles with delivery people riding on the sidewalk and going the wrong way and generally creating problems like that," said Charles Warren, co-chairman of Community Board 8's transportation committee. "The e-bikes, which we've seen more of certainly in our area, just add to that because they obviously go faster."

A state bill introduced in the Assembly and Senate would do exactly the opposite. The bill, which has previously been unsuccessful, would amend vehicle and traffics laws to classify electric-assisted bikes with a power output of no more than 1,000 watts and a maximum speed of 20 miles an hour as a bike.

The bill overwhelmingly passed the Assembly; a Senate version is being amended, said a spokesman for the sponsor, Sen. Martin Malave Dilan.

Restaurants say the electric bikes are good for business, expanding delivery zones and producing quicker deliveries. Victor Tu, manager of Lili's Noodle Shop on the Upper East Side, said five of his delivery employees bought e-bikes a few months ago. "It's faster and it saves time and energy," he said. "I told them to be careful, safety is No. 1. So far, no complaints."

View Full Image
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Michael Nagle for The Wall Street Journal

The rise in electric bikes, popular with restaurants for deliveries, has stirred opposition in parts of the city.
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Under federal law, electric bikes fall under the same classification as regular bikes so long as they go no faster than 20 miles an hour and are powered by a motor with less than 750 watts. But the state's Department of Motor Vehicles has concluded that the contraptions are neither motor vehicle nor bike.

City police say the bikes are legal to buy and ride on private property only. A spokeswoman said that bike citations aren't broken down by type of bike and that most tickets aren't solely for riding an electric bike but for other violations, as well.

"They're sold in New York," said the spokeswoman. "You can legally buy them, you just can't legally ride them on the street."

According to city code, anyone operating a motorized scooter—which, the spokeswoman said, includes electric bikes—is liable for a $500 civil penalty.

Bert Cebular, the owner of NYCeWheels, an Upper East Side shop that sells electric bikes, said none of his customers have complained about getting tickets. "It's a gray area," he said. "But none of our customers have ever been asked about it or ticketed or anything."

Mr. Cebular sells higher-end electric bikes. He used to have delivery employees as customers until several shops in Chinatown, where e-bikes have become quite popular, opened up. Now, he caters to commuters and weekend riders.

Kate Fu works at MNC E-Bikes in Chinatown and said her clients are mostly deliverymen. She sells the bikes anywhere from $550 to $1,180 and said the bikes go up to 25 miles an hour. "It makes their work easier," she said. "It's very environmentally friendly—they should encourage people to [ride] it."

A deliveryman, who gave his last name as Xhang but no first name, said his electric bike makes his life easier and allows him to get food to customers during rush hour before they start complaining.

"When I use it, it's much faster and easier than a regular bike," Mr. Xhang said, according to Ms. Fu's translation. "A regular bike you have to pedal all the time."

Mr. Xhang got his e-bike last year. The one ticket he got was for going the wrong way up a one-way street, which he said also helps him reach customers faster. He said if the officer tried to tell him the bike was illegal he didn't understand because of the language barrier.

Michael Murphy, a spokesman for Transportation Alternatives, an advocacy group for biking, said in an email that the group is "generally supportive" of e-bikes because they make bicycling more accessible.

"But they also enable speeds in excess of what's usually achieved by a pedal-powered bike and that can be riskier," he added.

The group is drafting a policy but believes e-bikes "should be subject to additional legal safety requirements."
—Alison Fox contributed to this article.

Write to Sumathi Reddy at sumathi.reddy@wsj.com

 

[dogman dan]

The problem is obvious. Riding up the wrong way on a one way etc, is the real problem. Well, that and New York. And they call Santa Fe the city different...

On the other hand, riding like a scofflaw may be the only way to stay alive. Glad I don't try to bike there. Might need a 40 mph ebike to survive in the streets. Not to mention out run cops.

Incredibly goofy though, for ebikes to be illegal statewide.

 

[sk8norcal]

http://gothamist.com/2011/05/17/thing_nyc_needs_more_electronic-ass.php

For those who buy into the anti-cycling backlash, here's something you can legitimately hate: electric bikes. Their speed makes them more dangerous than a normal bicycle, they encourage sloth, and their very presence on the street in New York City is illegal.

 

[TylerDurden]

OMG... sloth.

 

[ecodean]

Like cars don't encourage sloth?

 

[Ykick]

I'm working on some NYC road video - it will blow your mind Dogman!

Riding here is a much different deal than most of the world in regard to traffic laws and practices. For example, if cross vehicular traffic is clear it's common practice to ignore traffic/walk lights. Bikes and pedestrians alike - try that in Santa Monica, Phoenix or Gladstone Mo, LOL...

I believe the accepted logic is "why stand around waiting to get run over by a speeding Taxi, truck or something?" I shit you not - just this spring several cars have flown off an overpass near my bridge approach killing a bystander on the sidewalk below.

Here, check out the stories:
http://gothamist.com/2011/03/28/careening_car_off_ed_koch_queensbor.php
http://gothamist.com/2011/04/06/another_car_careens_off_ed_koch_que.php
http://gothamist.com/2011/04/08/passenger_dies_from_ed_koch_queensb.php

So instead of waiting around for something to run you over or fall on top of you most New Yorkers simply cross streets when it's clear while ignoring whatever the cute street light may indicate.

LE doesn't seem too interested in busting eBikes but they can if they want. Most NYPD seem to like the idea of eBikes and they would be great for patrols but as some of you know NYS legislation is a mess - mostly awaiting a hefty campaign contribution IMO.

The main thing is to not be an ass and create any hazardous conditions. I've been known to ride slowly and carefully on sidewalks or against traffic because the alternative is simply more exposure to dangerous conditions. I don't do it very often and then only with care and respect for those around me. But between intense congestion and the way many one way streets are laid out you will learn to use anything at your disposal in order to survive another day.

If NYC really wanted to get serious about traffic safety they would come down harder on Taxis. No reason those damn things should be blasting up 6th Ave 50-60MPH on Sunday mornings or other rare light traffic moments. And why do they (Taxis) have their PM shift end right in the middle of rush hour? 4:30-5pm? Taxi's are either in a supreme hurry with a fare or they're poking along looking for one and don't care what get's in their way. And don't get me started on foreign diplomats either...

 

[dogman dan]

Yep, I have to agree, you'd never get anywhere there waiting for a traffic light to change. But as a starting point to get a law changed, that situation is a poor place to be. You stand there going change the law please, while everybody knows you'll ignore anything they pass anyway. But the thing is, all bikes piss off the drivers and the walkers, so there you are with the majority hating you for getting there faster.


NYC is just not like any other city in the US. My impression is that it's more like London as far as traffic goes. Unbelievable gridlock on streets, and in the citys heart, same gridlock on the sidewalk. I keep getting the mental image of a bike trying to "Crocodile Dundee walk" on the heads of the crowd.

Still, there is no excuse for ebikes that meet something resembling the fed definition being illegal on the street upstate. They simply are not dangerous toys for kids like a dirt motorcycle. The politicians of course will not pass anything untill they are shown the $$$. Or shown how they gain votes by it. Makes it hard to bike lobby as it is. Ebike is even more 1% er.

 

[grindz145]

It's so frusterating that the entire rest of the state gets sucked in the poor decisions of one city in the state (albeit a relatively large city 8) ) I still contest that the legislation as it is can be bent enough to accept ebikes, but I realize a real-deal lawyer might have other opinions... :lol:

 

[TylerDurden]

NYC is just not like any other city in the US. My impression is that it's more like London as far as traffic goes. Unbelievable gridlock on streets, and in the citys heart, same gridlock on the sidewalk. I keep getting the mental image of a bike trying to "Crocodile Dundee walk" on the heads of the crowd.

It's not usually that bad... crowded, but moving.

It's a complex organism: if there's a problem in one section, that place bogs down (or stops) and other areas take up the diverted load. It does have its critical arteries... if a tunnel or bridge gets plugged, it gets very challenging.

A jerk in a jacked-up 4x4 is worse than a jerk in a smart4two, a jerk on an ebike is worse than a jerk on a pedal-cruiser... but the problem is the jerk, not the ride. It's just easier to nuke the rides than deal with the jerks.

I have never had to help get a bike off a taxi... I wish I could forget having to do the opposite. But you won't see anybody banning taxis.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Wikipedia:

There are 13,087 taxis operating in New York City... The average cab fare in 2000 was US$6.00; over US $1 billion in fares were paid that year in total

vs:

More than 500 people annually work as bicycle rickshaw (AKA pedicab drivers), who in 2005 handled one million passengers.[45] The City Council voted twice, including an override of Mayor Bloomberg's veto due to the market cap, in 2007 to license pedicab owners and drivers and allow only 325 pedicab licenses.[46] Neither the limit on pedicabs nor the law itself went into effect due to a successful New York City Pedicab Owners' Association lawsuit over permit issuance.[47] Ultimately, 943 pedicab business owners permits were issued in November 2009 after a second law was passed to address shortcomings of the 2007 law.[48] Today, pedicabs meet market demand in midtown for both ecological transport as well as quick trips within the central business district during afternoon rush hours when vehicular traffic moves cross town at an average speed of 4.5 miles per hour

 

[stanz]

This isn't a new law, that's the DMV code. The cops just don't enforce it.

I went to the NY DMV site and it's clear as day, motor assisted bicycles cannot be used on any public road.

Stupid but true.

Somebody call Al Gore or Ed Begley Jr.!

 

[REdiculous]

So it sounds to me like the delivery guys just need to get electric motorcycles instead of ebikes and join in the traffic problem that way.

 

[dogman dan]

Which requires a drivers licence to register, which requires a trip to New Mexico where you can get one. :lol:

Ok, I'm just assuming the delivery guys visa has expired. All the talk about the big apple being a green apple, and true in a lot of ways. No wastefull 1/3 acre of grass per house, able to not own a car etc. But you aint green if you have to take a cab that idles along at 10 mph, and banning ebikes is certainly not a green decision. I say sick Ed Begley, AND Larry Hagman on em.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

So a 2500-pound (which is like a Civic) is safe but an Ebike isn't?

Ebikes go too fast, but cars don't?

And which pollutes the air?


By the way, how is a cop going to stop you? If he's on foot he's screwed, and if on a horse is screwed, and if in a car eating doughnuts is screwed.

 

[sangesf]

Actually, according to FEDERAL LAW, EVERY state MUST regulate an ELECTRIC bicycle that has a less then 750w motor and a top speed less then 20mph, AS A REGULAR BICYCLE!!
So, if NYC wants to outlaw e-bikes, they would need to outlaw regular bicycles.

 

[TylerDurden]

Actually, according to FEDERAL LAW, EVERY state MUST regulate an ELECTRIC bicycle that has a less then 750w motor and a top speed less then 20mph, AS A REGULAR BICYCLE!!
So, if NYC wants to outlaw e-bikes, they would need to outlaw regular bicycles.

No....

Fed regs are for consumer protection (sales/manufacturing).

States and localities control roadways and vehicles.

 

[sangesf]

Actually, according to FEDERAL LAW, EVERY state MUST regulate an ELECTRIC bicycle that has a less then 750w motor and a top speed less then 20mph, AS A REGULAR BICYCLE!!
So, if NYC wants to outlaw e-bikes, they would need to outlaw regular bicycles.

No....

Fed regs are for consumer protection (sales/manufacturing).

States and localities control roadways and vehicles.

I would re-read the law, if I were you...
I thought as you did, UNTIL I re-read the law...
It USED to say, that the states have regulatory discretion as to ebikes...
BUT THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE..

 

[TylerDurden]

Actually, according to FEDERAL LAW, EVERY state MUST regulate an ELECTRIC bicycle that has a less then 750w motor and a top speed less then 20mph, AS A REGULAR BICYCLE!!
So, if NYC wants to outlaw e-bikes, they would need to outlaw regular bicycles.

No....

Fed regs are for consumer protection (sales/manufacturing).

States and localities control roadways and vehicles.

I would re-read the law, if I were you...
I thought as you did, UNTIL I re-read the law...
It USED to say, that the states have regulatory discretion as to ebikes...
BUT THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE..

Ummm... show us which law you are referring to.

I refer to HR 727:

"Specifically, section 1 of the Act makes low-speed electric bicycles subject to the Commission’s* existing regulations on bicycles. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section 3(a)(1)[of the CPSA] and shall be subject to the Commission regulations published at § 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations."

*(CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION)

 

[sangesf]

I will find it and post...

In the meantime, here is the PERFECT analogy I found...

If beer is like a bicycle, then wine is like a conforming electric bike. If you are allowed to drink beer someplace and in certain conditions then you should be able to drink wine in the same place. You should not exclude the wine drinker because the issue is whether alcohol is allowed or not. If alcohol is NOT allowed then beer AND wine are BOTH not allowed.

Make sense?

The federal law can't intervene in the local laws about the use of alcohol, but they can make a statement that beer and wine are considered the same thing in their eyes. If the local law makes a specific attack on the wine drinker (maybe "bubba" only likes his budweiser) then the federal law could potentially be used to make a challenge. However, if the local laws hold up your only recourse would be to appeal to a higher court. (which they can decide to simply "not hear" and in effect your attempt at changing things has then failed)

Agreed?

(of course this actually gets us to things like liquor licenses and whether a bar can sell beer, wine and hard liquor. Often such subtle distinctions are made)

 

[nuevomexicano]

...AKA (Citizen enslavement COMMISSION)

Do you call it this because so many corporate hacks were hired over the last 12 years and they've done everything possible to water down regulations and keep from holding corporations actually being responsible for what they build?

 

[sangesf]

Forget what I said about HR727...
The link that I was shown a few months ago, was obviously "doctored" with the addition of..
"(The state must regulate the electric bicycle as a bicycle)".

It seems as if electric bicycle companies are behind trying to sell their wares to people in state's where you DO need a DL to ride one with their own addendum's to a federal law.."

My mistake...

 

[TylerDurden]

My mistake...

No worries. You were mislead by vested interests.

A Canadian vendor posting to this thread would never stoop so low. :lol:

 

[TylerDurden]

(Sound of crickets and wind. Tumbleweeds roll across the empty road.)


Hmmmm... sure got quiet real fast....

sangesf

can you quote the change here.

Hmmmmm.

Who could have shown "sangesf" a modified version of US consumer law....




:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Lessss]

TD, #$%#$ you and your libel.

I asked sangesf to show me what he found.


I have this on my website.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/regu/crc-c-1038/latest/crc-c-1038.html
http://gazette.gc.ca/archives/p2/2001/2001-04-11/html/sor-dors117-eng.html

Please note the difference between Federal legislation and Provincial legislation. The Federal government creates the vehicle categories and the Province creates legislation within those categories.
Please contact first the ministry of Transport. If they something along the lines of if it doesn't look like a bike it's not then demand to know what line item of legislation says that. After the game of phone tag though contact your local MLA. When I call they tell me yes ebikes are legal but if it looks like a bike it's a bike and if it doesn't it isn't. When you talk to your MLA also bring up things like Segways, 4 wheel toy electric ride on toys, quadracycles, and bike trailers.

and this

In Canada bicycles can have a motor that does not exceed 500 Watts rated and 32 Km/hr, must have an emergency cutoff, and pedals. If it qualifies then insurance and a drivers license are not needed in almost all provinces. Some local city bylaws may impose further restrictions but those are rare. If it fails to meet those requirements then it is classed as a motorcycle but can be operated under a simple car drivers license instead of a motorcycle license. Although some jurisdictions haven't caught up with this 100 year old technology and may be more restrictive. If you call your dept of transport or public safety and they say something along the lines of "if it looks like a bike it's a bike if it doesn't it's not", then demand to know what article and line item of legislation says that. Some departments are answering the phone with unlegislated rules of thumb that are totally wrong, not true, and have no force of law. If you have any issues let me know.

 

[TylerDurden]

Libel? Pffft...

You are the stupidest steaming-log around here, since safe got banned. :lol:

Quackbikes, ebikes so lame you gotta duck.

Edit your posts all you want, Lessss.