ZEV - Z Electric Vehicles - 10kw + 78mph

[jansevr]

I came across these scooters and a few quick searches didn't come up with anything on here...i'm sure a few of you might have heard of them but for the rest of you hopefully you find this as interesting as i do!

http://zelectricvehicle.com/15.html

their top of the line 10kw continuous motor claims a top speed of a blistering 78mph and (at 65% power) a 140 mile range (with a whopping 10kwh battery!)

some of you might recognize the second motor here:

ZEV states "The problem for our competitors is that because of their small motor diameter, they must run high amps to the motor to get the torque we get at lower amps.. But losses due to resistance are equal to the motor current (amps) squared x resistance. The inherent problem with increasing current is that an electric motor is basically a resistor, and the heat generated by a resistor increases with the square of current. Double the current, and you've got four times the heat to dissipate; triple the current, and you've got nine times the heat."

it is clear that their motor is much larger/should be better at distributing heat/running for long periods of time - especially considering that their motors contain an oil bath.

this is the only picture of the inside of one of their motors that i could find (a few years old by the looks of it) - it looks very similar to something like a 5xxx crystalyte or cro motor but quite a bit larger and wider!

*cro motor for reference*

imagine one of their top of the line motors running in a moped (or possibly highly modified downhill bike ) with a 200-250 lb weight! not only would the motor be able to run almost all day without overheating, i think you could easily push closer to 15-20kw relatively continuously (with less than 1/2 the weight) and probably even 30kw+ peaks no problem!

the only downside i see to a setup like this (besides not having many useful graphs/pricing information available atm) is that the motor is a 3 phase. a 6 phase seems like an advantage in that you can use 2 relatively cheap controllers together to run a high powered setup.

 

[IBScootn]

I have the 6100; uses same motor as 7100 (rated 9200watt cont) afaik. It runs so cool, probably due to the small amount of oil cooling. 2 1/2 years use and no drive train issues.

Wish I had bought the 7100 now; but with the credits, the 6100 has turned out to be free. At the time the 7100 would have cost $2000 more post credits and that seemed like a lot of money at the time.

The 100AH battery would be great!! I like the large built-in storage in the LRC; but then mine has a far amount of storage; bought some very nice saddle bags and have never needed them.

 

[arkmundi]

Its more or less all battery:

That's 60ah at 84V.
If I were in the market, I'd buy the ZEV7100-LR at USD $8,990, and consider it a bargain.

 

[d h zehrbach]

The photo of the bike battery pack with the purple cover plate battery is correctly 84 volts X 60 Ah battery. That is a 7100 LR (long range)

The LRC is 84 volts also but uses the 100 ah battery. It was created because customers wanted to run over 75 miles at 75 miles/hr to commute to/from work. We also ran out of room for storage on the smaller chassis for the 7100 LR. The LRC has a big compartment in the front of the bike, 2 small ones under the handlebars, and a luggage box under the seat large enough for 2 full face helmets (+ a rear box).

The 13 inch hub motor uses the outside of the motor as the inside flange of the 13 inch rim to stuff the largest diameter motor in the wheel. The rim actually becomes a "cooling fin". The LRC runs 130 amps in the controller.

You can see in the photo of the LRC chassis that the upper shock mounts fit on a cross frame bar with lots of room on the bar to move the shocks out wider. This is so the new 20 kw motor (that is a dual stator motor) now in testing will fit the bike with a swingarm change. Actual output is 28 kw at max power. We are about 4 months off on making that a listed model. I have to drive it for about 6 months to make sure no unforeseen quirks. The 2 stator motor fits a 14 inch rim and the back tire is a fat one. Larger rear wheel diameter and big torque to pull it means a nice speed increase. I can tell you that with the windshield fitted on the bike, the combination of no engine noise, limited wind noise, the full fairing keeping you out of the wind, that the lack of speed references got the seat puckered a few times the first ride. We have a compromise motor to test also at 18 kw that will not have the power of the 28 kw motor but actually kicks up the range 40 miles on the Interstate, and 60 miles at 55 mph. Need to let some more people drive it and see what the market thinks. My bet is they ask for the range.

DH Zehrbach
ZEV

 

[jansevr]

DH Zehrbach -

any chance you could give me a quote on individual motor/controller prices? hopefully by next summer i would like to purchase a high power motor - and am very interested in ZEV! i would probably be most interested in the 10kw continuous but if you had an estimate for the dual stator 20kw that would be awesome as well!

 

[d h zehrbach]

No problem. We sell any and every part of every bike. There are a few companies around the world making bikes/trikes/cars that use our powertrain and a number of home builders.

The 10 kw motor is $809, controller $585. They come in several versions depending on vehicle weight and the amps you want to run. This motor was designed for 84 volts. There are lower voltage motors and controllers at less cost available.

You can contact me at sales@zelectricvehicle for more information

 

[sk8norcal]

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/extreme-range-electric-motor-scooter

 

[nshm]

Hey all,

I happened to be in Morgantown, WV visiting family, and Darus was nice enough to show me around the ZEV headquarters. I left totally surprised and pleased by their scooters.

For a small operation, they make a really well put together product. You can tell that they have a heritage steeped in racing and aerospace. Many of the little tricks we use in our race bikes are in ZEV's production units. Superbikes they are not, but for the price they're damn fun and practical. Their newest 10kW scooter really hauls.

I'm already scoping out a motor/controller combo for a personal project I have in mind! Felt I had to leave some love on this forum as there's not enough press about these guys.

-Nick Schoeps

Lead Engineer, Motoczysz

 

[jansevr]

Nick -

It's great to hear some feedback and review of ZEV from a reputable source such as yourself! You are very right that there isn't much press about these guys! For the time being I am more interested in building bikes but if in the future I ever have a chance for a custom build I will definitely keep one of their motors in mind.

 

[hillzofvalp]

edit: I spoke with Darus.

Subscribed. I wish you could give us more details about specific more configuration and no-load kv. I may have to give u a call, as I see u listed your number on your site. Ah, here come some more...

Could you wind a normal motor as a 6 phase?

Possibly, as the stator castings are spaced with a spacer that I assume can be removed (on double wide). The double wide being tested has paralleled stators.

Rim width?

Axle width 190mm? What about dual stator?

Phase wire gauge?

Stator width/diameter?

50mm wide stator. double wide would be 100mm plus the gap.

Weight?

current 5kW motor is 19.8kg
double wide will be around 35kg

Phase wire gauges?

 

[jateureka]

I just picked up a new ZEV 7100 LR for a very reasonable price from the Australian seller on the Sunshine Coast who is liquidating all old stock. Basically I got the whole bike for the cost of a new 8kW hub motor, 84V 120A controller and 84V 15A charger.
The bike was manufactured Dec 2012, so is outside the 2 year manufacturer's warranty and there are a couple of suspect cells in the battery pack.

I think he has 1 more 7100 LR and a few 5000 models left that have the Australian compliance plate and some other model that is not complianced.

If any other Aussie's are interested then PM me and I'll pass on the seller's details.

 

[dnmun]

suspect cells means they self discharged while sitting uncharged for 2 years?

you should try to charge them up using a single cell charger to get them close to the others or a little ahead as you charge up the entire pack.

if it is the first three or four cells and they drained to zero then it may have drained down on the BMS circuit current. in that case try charging those 3-4 as a unit up to the level of the others and then use the bulk charger on the entire battery.

the CALB cells can be replaced too if they don't come back with charging. it would be best to use the originals if possible though since they will have aged an equivalent amount. AIMHO

 

[jateureka]

Hi Dnmun,
thanks for the tips, I'll try them first.
The seller said the pack voltage only came up to 95V or so on the charger, but I've yet to check anything for myself.
I took it for a quick spin up and down our 60m long driveway, still has plenty of oomph - so much so that I surprised both my chocolate Labrador and myself when I nearly ran him over!

Z Electric Vehicle Operating Manual can be downloaded here http://www.environmentfriendlystore.com/pdf/ZEV-Operations-Manual.pdf

One thing to note, if you're taking your new scooter in to be tested for rego or RWC, you need to have the side stand UP for the brake light to turn ON when the brake lever is applied. If you have the scooter on the side stand it automatically applies the brake light, so it doesn't go brighter when the brake lever is applied and the tester will think your brake lights are not working...

 

[jateureka]

That web site I posted before with the Operators Manual also has some information about the electrical system that other owners may find useful.

http://www.environmentfriendlystore.com/zev-tips-troubleshooting.html

 

[IBScootn]

Jateureka,

Good to see another ZEV owner. Regarding your battery pack, I would strip the bike down to get access to the cells: minimum of removing the tub under the seat and the body panel in front of the seat that has the charging port on it.

Discharge the pack until the BMS won't allow the motor controller to spin the wheels; ie one low cell trips the LVC on the BMS. (I connected standard 120Vac resistive devices directly to the charging port while using the throttle to spin the wheel to increase load and reduce time to drain pack). Then start measuring equal groups of cells until you find a low voltage set. Then split that group in half to find the weak half. Continue until you locate the weak cell or two. Then use your standard charger to charge all cells again. Then use a single cell charger to top up the low cells to match the other good cells.

I strongly suggest adding balance wires to ground and each of the positive battery terminals, run those out to 9-pin connectors to mate to Cell Log 8m/s devices. So in the future, you can simply connect a Cell Log device to check the health of your batteries 8 cells at a time. If the bike is ever ran low to the point that the BMS prohibits further travel, then the cells will probably get unbalanced bad enough that the stock BMS and stock charger won't be able to rebalance the pack. That is where these 9-pin balance connectors come in handy; you can charge individual cells back up thru manual balancing without having to remove a single body panel. I also reccomend buying a Cycle Analyst to monitor WH used to always know true range left in pack, accurate speed, voltage, and amperage.

I bought a T7100 at $0.10 on the dollar because the battery pack could not be rebalanced using the standard charger. My guess is one cell got wet and slowly drained that cell compared to the others. Range was only 16miles and dropping fast. Once I found the low cell, I charged all cells as mentioned above and restored full range.

 

[dnmun]

i do not recommend charging single cells in a pack. it is easier to use a dummy load to drain charge off of the other cells while charging with the charger through the BMS. it is faster and you can have more control over the balancing.

 

[jateureka]

Sad to say today did not end well for me or my ZEV battery charger...

Everything was going fine, the charger was in the final stage of top-off charging.
I went to move the charger and as I lift it I hear "BZZT.. BZZT" then acrid smoke is wafting out the fan, I squeal "holy cr@p" and yank the power cord from the mains and unplug the charger from the bike.

I let the smoke settle and I'm thinking what the hell just happened???
So take cover off charger and it looks like when I lifted the charger the fan black wire has touched a hot resistor and melted the insulation and shorted out..

Soooo, IBScooting or anyone with this charger, can you tell me what the resistor and capacitor values should be for those fried components?

 

[jateureka]

ZEV Charger with fault = Kentucky Fried resistors...

 

[IBScootn]

I don't use the standard chargers so can't help there.

With my ZEV 6100, I fried the OEM charger by not following instructions: I didn't use a surge suppressor and didn't check input voltage from outlet while opportunity charging at a friends ancient poorly wired garage outlet. Voltage must have dipped too low (old, crappy wiring), or strong spike on the line. Either way, came out a hour later to check on charge and it wasn't working and you could smell that the smoke had been let out.

Built my own $300 CC/CV charger from two in series HRP-600-48 Mean Well power supplies and a series diode.

With my ZEV T7100, the OEM charger pulled too much current and kept flipping my 120V 15A circuit breaker. So made an adapter to the above custom charger and use this adjustable charger to charge either bike.

Good luck repairing your charger or you can do what I did and make your own adjustable charger. One advantage of a adjustable charger is you can adjust the voltage to make pack balancing easier.

 

[jateureka]

IBScootn, thanks for your reply.
Could you post or PM me the details for how you rigged your 2 MeanWell supplies?
This seems to be the quickest solution to get me back up and running at the moment.

 

[IBScootn]

It's very simple. Connect AC input to both power supplies. Take the + DC output from the first supply and connect it to the - DC output of the second supply. This connects the supplies in series to double the output voltage. Take the + DC output of the second supply and connect to the input of a rectifier diode that rated at least 125V and 20A. You will want to use a heat sink on that diode as they produce heat, but be careful to isolate it electrically from the chassis. The output of this custom charger will be the output from the diode and the - DC connection on the first supply for about a 81 to 106Vdc adjustable voltage range.

The supplies have built in current limiting of about 14A which is perfect for charging these bikes. Adjust the output voltages of each supply using the supply's potentiometer to reach the desired total voltage output.

I used four strips of metal to mount the two supplies together to from a single block and but you could keep them separate if wanted to build it into the bike chassis.

 

[arkmundi]

There's a thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60575#p904985 on using the Meanwell HLG series supplies as chargers. Since these are for LED and related DC power applications, they do not necessitate a rectifier diode.

 

[IBScootn]

The series diode is there to keep the battery pack from being able to back drive the supplies should one or both of them get turned off while connected to the battery.

 

[jateureka]

Thanks, I read the Meanwell threads on connecting these in series and found I also need to isolate the ground on the second supply.

I have been sent a couple of photos of a good ZEV charger circuit and see the burnt resistors are colour coded brown black black black brown, so I take it they are 100 Ohm and 1% tolerance. I'll try to fault find and fix this charger now, using some hints from the BMS Battery charger repair thread over here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38284

 

[IBScootn]

I mentioned that the HRP-600 supplies have isolated outputs so you don't have to worry about the second ground.