Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

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No that was 18S2P - so 5ah from a 10ah pack (and later 9.2 from 10)
I typically don't run them past 3.3v/cell which usually works out around 9.5ah / cell, but the way these new ones went yesterday I don't doubt they would have happily gone over their rated capacity (as many have reported in the past) They'd barely hit their nominal voltage at 92% of the claimed capacity.
 
Dang, even I see those 20c packs as $51. That is killer! http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176


Just got my 5 packs in of the 25c, and 4 battery medics.
 
johnrobholmes said:
Dang, even I see those 20c packs as $51. That is killer! http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176


Just got my 5 packs in of the 25c, and 4 battery medics.


John,

Real fast... go in and add the packs to your cart, the show as 54 for me on the page but added to the cart the 6S20C5000mah goes to 50.24 each

My membership may be platinum though... I don't know but I spend alot with them (wow.. just checked it and it's over 20K in 6 months jeez, I have to start importing my own packs in 10,12 and 15S 10,15 and 20AH prebuilt packs!
 
For 36v you'd run 10S - so that's 2 5S packs in series. If you want 20ah you'd need 8 of them. Then grab 2 of Gary's LVC boards and you're set.
A good noob friendly charger would be the icharger 1010b
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6609

Or for 1/3rd of the price you could make a charger from a switch mode power supply like alot of us are doing.
 
I have a new 6s-5A Turnigy with a bad cell. Can it be restored by cycling? I was watching it during discharge, and it looked like it was ready to fall off a cliff at 3v, and was .3 - .5V lower than the rest. It was always that far out.

I'm charging now, and I see it is up to 3.9V, and it is only lagging by .03V now.

Any recommends on any tricks to make this cell be all it can be? I am using a 106B+ to charge.
 
Where are my posts :?
grrr....

btw: new lipo out: Long Johnson

Gets good flow up the middle & sides.

-methods
 

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Said it yesterday and ill say it again...Very nice Methods!

I used to be heavily int PC case modding, the plexi is used alot in pc case modding, lil
wet sanding of the plexi with ~800grit then pop an led at the base of
each plexi side panel, add lil piece of silk fabric fastened to the top roughly
cut to resemble flames and you get a nice flame job without actually burning anything Methy hehe

http://www.casemodgod.com/ModGuides/FlameFan/ledflamefan.htm

KiM
 
methods said:
Where are my posts :?

Gets good flow up the middle & sides.

-methods

Do you mean 'pressed my juice to my ride, got front & back and side to side'
8)

thats some fancy lexanage. seriously looks incredible.
 
Nah I just checked and they're the same price for platinum. I guess the flash sales basically just drop stuff to the prices platinum members get all the time (in this case anyway)
 
Fuses?

I've read this entire thread from start to finish as well as the "LiPo battery care and basic information" thread. I've seen a lot of different LiPo setups in this thread and also a lot of KFF and "big bangs" when bad connections are made. Is there a reason most of the setups I've seen here don't seem to use fuses? Woudn't a fuse help prevent some of the burned fingers, and near-neuteuring-by-melted-copper events? (I think that was Gary).

I know that the tabs on the LiPo packs are designed to melt/break in case of a short, but wouldn't a fuse allow for a more controlled and less destructive safety mechanism? Any drawbacks from using fuses?
 
Yes, there is an arguement NOT to use fuses;

Many (most?) RC controllers will see a surge when a fuse blows (if it blows under load) that can blow the FETs. I was told by Castle Creations that if a fuse blew while under load, the odds are high the controller will blow.

However, I just spoke with a friend yesterday that blew a HV110. When it blew, his CA recorded a 1,000 amp spike. A fuse would have been good for him to prevent possible pack damage from the controller shorting.

So, I guess it depends on the situation.....

Matt
 
Ypedal said:
fuses are for wussies.. :p

That's what I thought, but my GF forced me to reconsider my position after I burned a hole in the then-new kitchen table with 48 volts of SLA. :(

Many (most?) RC controllers will see a surge when a fuse blows (if it blows under load) that can blow the FETs. I was told by Castle Creations that if a fuse blew while under load, the odds are high the controller will blow.

Wouldn't the controller see a similar or even worse current surge when no fuse is used and the connectors melt instead of the fuse blowing?
 
Its not a current surge, but a more of a voltage spike that the controller will see.

Line inductance tends to act like an ignition coil. You give it a modest voltage, and it will discharge a higher voltage. So, if a fuse on a 48 volt pack blows under heavy load, the controller may see a 200 volt spike for a milisecond. That can blow the FETs.

If I am wrong on this, I am sure one of the EE guys will chime in. :)

Matt
 
I'm a strong believer in fuses. I put one on each of my battery packs as close to a terminal as practical. The idea being that the fuse is there to protect the battery. If you monkey with your stuff enough, sooner or later you will inadvertantly wire something wrong and create a short and the fuse is the final safeguard to prevent a minor disaster turning into a major one. Even if you do everything perfect, a component failure in a controller or charger could lead to an excessively high current in or out of your battery and a fuse provides some level of protection for this.

Some protection schemes for devices such as power supplies or chargers utilize a diode that essentially becomes a dead short if connected to an improper load voltage. The diode prevents the more expensive electronics from seeing this voltage. A fuse in the circuit should prevent disaster.

As for motors and inductance, think of inductance as the inertia of a flow of current. Much like the flow of water has inertia. If you put your thumb over the end of a flowing hose the inertia of the water will spike the pressure resulting in a temporary higher velocity stream blasting out past the edge of your finger. It is difficult to abruptly and completely stop that flow, especially if the flow was large.

As current flows through a motor it creates a magnetic field. If the voltage driving that current falls then the magnetic field starts collapsing producing a voltage (similar to the water pressure surge of the above example) to keep the current flowing at the same rate. Motor controllers for ebike use should be designed to gracefully handle the induced voltage spike caused by the sudden loss of battery input voltage. This can happen not just due to a fuse, but also due to BMS overload protection or a wiring or connector failure. If a controller can't handle this, it would be better to add the appropriate snubbing to it or select a different controller. Eliminating a vital safety feature like a fuse to protect an inadequate controller is not prudent.

As for seeing a super current spike, this would not happen directly due to the induced voltage spike which only tends to keep the current flowing at the same rate. However if the induced voltage spike damages some component, much like a water pressure spike can burst a pipe, then that may result in a current spike.
 
For a 5 AH 20C pack you would not want higher than a 100 amp fuse. But you might want a lot lower. For instance, if you know the maximum current you ever draw through your controller is 35 amps you might go with a 40 amp fuse. That should be enough to insure you never blow the fuse accidentally, but will increase the odds that the fuse blows before something else in case of a mishap.
 
SpeedEBikes said:
For a 5 AH 20C pack you would not want higher than a 100 amp fuse. But you might want a lot lower. For instance, if you know the maximum current you ever draw through your controller is 35 amps you might go with a 40 amp fuse. That should be enough to insure you never blow the fuse accidentally, but will increase the odds that the fuse blows before something else in case of a mishap.

What about when the packs are paralleled?

If my max current draw is limited to 75 amps on my controller and I run LiPos in 3P, can I protect each pack individually with a 30amps fuse or should I protect the paralleled string with a 80-90amps fuse?

Do fuse generally add a lot of resistance?
 
The fuse is your last line of defense.
If you are running 3 packs in parallel you will use 1 single fuse. You could fuse every single pack but that is overkill in my opinion.
The size of the fuse drives the resistance - bigger the fuse, less the resistance. It will be comparable to a pair of connectors - so you are NOT going to notice the difference. I promise this.

For 3 packs in parallel your rated out put is 300A continuous. That is just your continuous rating though - you could easily draw 500A bursts.
This would tell you to run a >500A fuse. Of course this is ridiculous... The entire system would melt in seconds at those currents.

What you need to do is determine what your *TRUE* peak current is.
If you are running a 50A current limit this peak current could be around 100A (or 70A or 150A - all depends on your setup)
Find your *true* peak current and add margin on top of that. If it really were 100A then I would set up the fuse for 150A.

In this system you are not looking to the fuse to be a true fast-blow protection. You are looking for a fail-safe fire stopper / pack saver.
If you short circuit the pack you will probably make 1000A and no matter what fuse you run it will blow - FAST - but not fast enough to stop you from getting KFF or KFD.

What I would be more worried about is running too small of a fuse and having it blow on you 10 miles into a ride.
Whatever you do, take extra fuses with you and make sure the model you use is easily available at an auto-parts store in case you get stuck.
Consider making a bypass shunt for emergency situations.

-methods
 
Thanks for the responses. I have more questions, but since this is off-topic and this thread is already very long, I moved the fuse-related questions here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15225
 
This isn't a long thread... not till 100 pages = )_

On topic:

Has anyone checked out the 6S 5000 mah Long Lipo sticks from HK yet? They look like 3s end to end (I think I can even see the jumper under the shrink) but they could be useful for triangle mounted pack builds.

How about the 5800mah packs? Any testing yet?

two last bits, slightly off topic (not really)...

Anyone have a good vendor for the S-320 meanwells? or the PS SP-320, specifically I am interested in the 48v variety. Looking for the S-145-48 also.

And while I'm on the subject of power supplies, I know there are lots of chargers out there at various overseas sites but (this could just be my lack of experience) it seems from user posts that they are a pain to work with... any feed back on this?

Ideally I would like to find somthing more appropriately shaped than the meanwell S-XXX series... somthing which could be fit into a triangle enclosure (think 2.5 to 3" squared and longer than meanwell) - any ideas or suggestions?

Mind you I'm not looking for brilliant and expensive chargers but rather somthing to use for a base (using meanwells now) to build an MCU into for added safety and chemistry charging awareness/curves.

Thanks in advance to all!

Mike

PS: If I am slow to reply to people recently, I appologize I have been experiencing some family health issues and as sole living relative I have been spending far too much time in the hospital (visiting, overseeing, etc)... this should be short term (a week or two) before my normal schedule avails me time for more ES and eBikes in general. On a positive note, I have been commuting the past 6 days from my home in Malvern, PA to Riddle Memorial Hospital in Media, PA (11.4mi each way) using my 20" folder with the new motor... I still have kinks to work out but man was it nice to fold up the bike and take it into my dads room so he could see (and I could charge) the new beauty!
 
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