CUTE geared hub motors from bmsbattery/ecitypower

[drewdiller]

By the way, what are BMS and Ecity charging for these motors?

$70, plus USPS shipping came out to ~$130.

 

[lynchy]

And the same for the 128 motors? Shipping is pretty pricey but the motor isn't a bad price. Theses aren't the cheapest of motors. Still reckon I could make a few $$s on them though. Gonna have to get my website up and running ASAP :wink:

Got some other good stuff over here as well. Was gonna be sending everything to UK initially and then distributing from there, but if there's any interest I'd be happy to oblige to those over the pond too

 

[drewdiller]

And the same for the 128 motors?

Sorry, I wasn't specific. The price I listed was for the 128mm diameter motor. Oddly, as someone else pointed out earlier, the prices go up for the smaller dimensions. (Less complicated gearing? I can only speculate.)

Honestly, it's a gamble. I thought I was pretty specific in my ordering comments, and the "what is it that you want, again?" feedback I got was alarming, so I'm not really sure what I'm getting :? ...I'll need to buy some more precise measuring instruments. I'm a young man, so learning about this stuff is illustrating to me that my empty space for tools is going to start filling up

 

[Russell]

I emailed ecitypower a number of questions about the 128 motor and they answered one.

Q: What is the no-load RPM for the 36V 24", 26" and 28" models at a nominal 36.0V?

A: 36V 24" 239RPM;26" 223RPM; 28" 209RPM

FWIW

-R

 

[GrayKard]

I purchased one Q-F-128SX front motor which is the 350/500 watt 36/48 volt version, and one Q-R-128SX rear motor same wattage and voltage. I made sure to include detailed comments so I get the right fit but will have to cross my fingers until they arrive.

I've been waiting patiently for them to ship out my order but today I received an email from them.

Basically, because it's a new product, they wanted to confirm that I did want the disc brake option and they specified that with that option the front with disc brake is 108mm and the rear with 6 speed freewheel and disc brake would be 141mm.

Gary

 

[mwkeefer]

Heads up... a friend got one of these with 6bolt pattern, the center offset was 41.5mm so not 40mm standard and wouldn't take a generic 160mm disc. A good caliper goes a long way on the measurement side.

Maybe u should ask if they have the DISCs to go with these hubs, that would likely be the solution since they prob get the rotor from the same manu/vendor and it should be drilled to fit the hubs.

This may have been a QC issue and not the entire offerings... my sample units were without disc (i have disc version on order front and rear for 20").

-Mike

 

[lynchy]

I'm told that the 128 motor is not as strong as the 108. I don't know the exact details of why it's not as good as the 108, but that's what I've been told and it wholesaless at about 25% cheaper than the 108. I've only had 108 motors as follows with some pics:

- 36V front, 250W without disk, 26" rim type, 100mm dropout, approx 95mm wide motor
- 24V front, 250W without disk, 20" rim type, 100mm dropout, approx 95mm wide motor
- 24V front, 250W with disk mounted directly to side of motor, 26" rim type, 100mm dropout, approx 85mm wide motor
- 24V rear, 250W with disk on threaded carrier, suited for 6/7 speed freewheel, 26" rim type 155mm dropout, same form as 95mm motor but with addition of threaded section.

Here's some pics


In the pic above the lower motor is the 85mm type with disk directly mounted to side. I went to a bike shop recently and test fitted an Avid 160mm disk on there. Everything liked up fine. I haven't fitted it to a disk equipped bike but I think it will line up ok. Will have some disk eqipped bikes here soon to confirm this but could pop down to a bike shop that I'm friendly with that stocks some really nice bikes and it may let me test fit a front, if I ask nicely The wider motor is without disk. It really fills the forks and will not fit into some forks. The disk type front will require the rim to be dished a little. The wider non disk motor requires no dishing whatsoever. I have had it confirmed that both these motors are rated 250W. Will get the tools over the next day or 2 to strip them down and post some internal pics.

The below shows a non disk fron alongside a rear with disk and 6/7 freewheel fittings


I'm now speaking with the manufacturer again and will try to pin down the exact options available on these rear motors. I've given up trying to contact directly and a very good Chinese friend of mine that works in an Engineering Services/Agent will help to bridge the social divide I cannot see why the smaller 85mm form motor cannot be used in the rear and then you wouldn't have the excessive dropout size issue that I've got with the unit shown. The above has a 155mm dropout spacing. I will probably adust it a bit as it has spaces, but will require the trhread to be extended, so will pick up an appropriate dye tomorrow. If you notice I've got a high speed 20" rim motor, so that will reveal more about how the max rpm is altered. I've been informed it is by different gear ratios, we'll see.

The factory and offices of Ananda is only about 1 hour from my home in Pudong by the metro. I'm going to be ordering a quantity of these for my business, retailling in the UK. If you guys are interested I could hook you up very nicely. If someone's willing to receive several motors and then forward them in the US, I should be able to get a better deal on shipping. I've got some examples here, so if anyone is trusted to get 1 off me I can send it to that person. If they like it, I'll fix as many as you like at a price you like Furthermore, I've been in Engineering for years. Not claiming to be an expert in motors as electrical and electronics is more my expertise, but I know more than most and what I don't know I can learn pretty quickly.

Of course any payments have to be done in a safe way for everyone involved. I've got Paypal but am happy to go along with any reputable method. Happy to chat with anyone and can PM contact details if you like.

I'm gonna be ordering a quanitity of these and have already ordered 10 as samples for testing and had the first batch of 5 for about 2 months. I haven't done so much testing so far but did overvoltage a 36V front, non disk, 95mm motor to 48V and it held up fine. I didn't want to just buy anything without thoroughly checking it myself first as it's me that unhappy customers will be coming back to. Can also get the rims fitted into any size and spec of rim you like for a very reasonable fee, but may cause problems with shipping.

Anyway the offers there I'll still answer any questions about these regardless or do any tests suggested because whether you want me to source some for you or not, at least I'm in a better position to know that what I'm putting my savings into, isn't gonna bite me on the arse down the road

Cheers
Lynchy

 

[GrayKard]

Another email from ecitypower: i have to tell u that now our rear motor of Q-R-128SX can not load the 6 speed freewheel, just can be 2-5 speed. I assume they mean and have any hope of fitting in 135mm dropouts.

They continued with this: we have another one Q-R-100SX, can meet ur request, but USD6 higher than that one. can u change this one?

The fun never ends. I had them switch my order to a pair of the 100SX models. I anticipate at least two more emails from them before they ship the order but that might be optimistic.

 

[lynchy]

Yes the joys of doing cross culture trade. My offer's still there if anyone's interested? I will detail exactly what you will be getting because I'll make sure I've got an example in front of me first. Be cheaper too Either way, no problems answering any questions you've got

 

[Drunkskunk]

Yes the joys of doing cross culture trade. My offer's still there if anyone's interested? I will detail exactly what you will be getting because I'll make sure I've got an example in front of me first. Be cheaper too Either way, no problems answering any questions you've got

I may be, but my project is going to have to wait untill after the first of the year.

 

[drewdiller]

Another email from ecitypower: i have to tell u that now our rear motor of Q-R-128SX can not load the 6 speed freewheel, just can be 2-5 speed. I assume they mean and have any hope of fitting in 135mm dropouts.

That is what i worked out as well -- which suits me, I'm riding a single speed bike, but I could see how that would be otherwise inconvenient! Now I'm told it will be 1 to 2 weeks before my unit even ships out.

 

[lynchy]

Yes the joys of doing cross culture trade. My offer's still there if anyone's interested? I will detail exactly what you will be getting because I'll make sure I've got an example in front of me first. Be cheaper too Either way, no problems answering any questions you've got

I may be, but my project is going to have to wait untill after the first of the year.

Drunkskunk, I'm very busy right now so no rush. Presently got 2 hardtail MTBs and a full suspension MTB along with a load of various parts to swap and change as we see fit that should be with me, hopefully by next weekend. Gonna have a few different choices of small hub motors to choose from and some differnt controllers. Think I may have decided on where the batteries will be coming from. Hopefully, in not too long we're gonna a nice hard tail MTB e bikes heading off to the UK The full suspension is my little plaything for now

These aren't gonna be top end, but not trash either. Good quality, lightweight alloy frame and the best possible compromise in bicycle components for the intended price bracket. Hoping for 20kgs with everything including battery (not the biggest of batteries as standard) which is maybe a little optimistic, but it won't be far off. Not compromising on the e bike parts (within reason of course). That's what the guys in the UK want in these early days. I want to start offering some higher end stuff very soon.

I've also been testing a really nice 36V 500W (very conservative rating IMO) hub motor. It's not cute but it certainly does the biz, especially at 48V. I've only used the motor in front wheel up to now but gonna be getting some front with disk and rear with disk and apparently 6/7 freewheel, which fits in a normal sized dropout. Unfortunately it's a bit bigger than these at about 4kgs, but I think 2 of these cuties would struggle to keep up with 1 of these bad boys running 48V regardless of overvoltage. They come in at a pretty good price too and it's the quietest geared hub motor I've used. Can give some more details and some figures if anyone wants to know more.

 

[GrayKard]

I've also been testing a really nice 36V 500W (very conservative rating IMO) hub motor. It's not cute but it certainly does the biz, especially at 48V. I've only used the motor in front wheel up to now but gonna be getting some front with disk and rear with disk and apparently 6/7 freewheel, which fits in a normal sized dropout. Unfortunately it's a bit bigger than these at about 4kgs, but I think 2 of these cuties would struggle to keep up with 1 of these bad boys running 48V regardless of overvoltage. They come in at a pretty good price too and it's the quietest geared hub motor I've used. Can give some more details and some figures if anyone wants to know more.

I'm interested in details and figures in case I'm not happy with how my build turns out. In that case I will put the "cute" setup on another frame I have laying around and get a couple motors from you.

I'm sure others would be interested too so I think you should start a thread on items you are testing.

Gary

 

[mwkeefer]

Gary,

You beat me too it.

Yep if you have 500w geared brushless motors - I know I'd be interested in hearing more details on them.

I'm wondering if they are steel or plastic geared? if they are steel we might be testing the same thing from the same manufacturer, if that's the case... I'd love to compare notes and measurements to see what the variance is across the pond and order time frames.

That's the one problem with evaluation and samples... we get (usually) the very best they can produce as samples but actual quality is lower in production - if we (users) or they (vendors) would start having a bit more communication durring this sampling stage then I think 1/2 of the crappy stuff that makes it into our markets wouldn't. If we all compare notes and measurements, we could identify the tolerances from their sample stock instead of having to sink 10-20K USD into a bulk order only to find out that the production tolerance made 10% of the received inventory unusable or worse that the whole batch of end product has to be torn down and rebuilt or a fix has to be integrated (Morgan, Jason, Justin and all the other vendors should understand this).

The competing factor is capitolism - everyone wants to have the "technical" edge and so I doubt (though I don't know for sure) that there is much technical sharing amongst the various vendors / dealers and I do understand the need for a market edge. I am criticized by some for "giving" away too much and thereby taking value out of retail products however, I see it a bit differently than most potential vendors. A good example is proper torque washers for the US market - I've been giving the specs away and encouraging everyone (vendors and users alike) to provide these instead of the chinese versions which won't fit US dropouts. Could I have held these, produced them and then used them for a marketing edge? Sure. I have 3 new torque arm designs in the machine shop right now... They will solve a host of issues for front and rear vertical dropouts and yep I could sell them and / or use them for a market edge but... These are safety / quality issues and fixes which should be available to all because if eBikes get a reputation for being dangerous -- well all the market edge in the world doesn't help if the average consumer is afraid of the product?

So I see quality and safety in the same boat - I think vendors should be competing more upon final kit or build quality, feature set, customer service and finally (YES I MEAN FINALLY) price point.

So if you have 500w geared hubs, I'd love to hear about them and their quality...

The whole bit about the BMS people not knowing their product is true.... I had to pull the cover off my front hub, take it to the machinst and he is putting a wider collar on it for me and then drilling out the 6 bolt brake mounts. This was for a motor which was supposed to support the disc 6 bolt (how that's possible with no holes, got me).

-Mike

 

[lynchy]

Guys,

I haven't stopped today, so busy sorting stuff out. Will get back to you in the morning, it's 2am here and my lovely young girlfriend is telling me to come to bed

 

[drewdiller]

DO AS YOU'RE TOLD.

 

[lynchy]

Gary,

You beat me too it.

Yep if you have 500w geared brushless motors - I know I'd be interested in hearing more details on them.

I'm wondering if they are steel or plastic geared? if they are steel we might be testing the same thing from the same manufacturer, if that's the case... I'd love to compare notes and measurements to see what the variance is across the pond and order time frames.

That's the one problem with evaluation and samples... we get (usually) the very best they can produce as samples but actual quality is lower in production - if we (users) or they (vendors) would start having a bit more communication durring this sampling stage then I think 1/2 of the crappy stuff that makes it into our markets wouldn't. If we all compare notes and measurements, we could identify the tolerances from their sample stock instead of having to sink 10-20K USD into a bulk order only to find out that the production tolerance made 10% of the received inventory unusable or worse that the whole batch of end product has to be torn down and rebuilt or a fix has to be integrated (Morgan, Jason, Justin and all the other vendors should understand this).

The competing factor is capitolism - everyone wants to have the "technical" edge and so I doubt (though I don't know for sure) that there is much technical sharing amongst the various vendors / dealers and I do understand the need for a market edge. I am criticized by some for "giving" away too much and thereby taking value out of retail products however, I see it a bit differently than most potential vendors. A good example is proper torque washers for the US market - I've been giving the specs away and encouraging everyone (vendors and users alike) to provide these instead of the chinese versions which won't fit US dropouts. Could I have held these, produced them and then used them for a marketing edge? Sure. I have 3 new torque arm designs in the machine shop right now... They will solve a host of issues for front and rear vertical dropouts and yep I could sell them and / or use them for a market edge but... These are safety / quality issues and fixes which should be available to all because if eBikes get a reputation for being dangerous -- well all the market edge in the world doesn't help if the average consumer is afraid of the product?

So I see quality and safety in the same boat - I think vendors should be competing more upon final kit or build quality, feature set, customer service and finally (YES I MEAN FINALLY) price point.

So if you have 500w geared hubs, I'd love to hear about them and their quality...

The whole bit about the BMS people not knowing their product is true.... I had to pull the cover off my front hub, take it to the machinst and he is putting a wider collar on it for me and then drilling out the 6 bolt brake mounts. This was for a motor which was supposed to support the disc 6 bolt (how that's possible with no holes, got me).

-Mike

Mike,

drop me a line. I'd be very interested to chat with you some more. I'll do some proper testing of the bigger 500W motor that I've been using for the last few months as you've suggested and start a new thread. Any suggestions of anything you are particularly interested in, let me know. I'm gonna be getting some other variants of this motor also but that may take a little time.

Unfotunately, I've got a hell of a lot on at the moment. Also, I still need to get more tools as I couldn't bring anythere here and it's all having to be bought new. I used to always use the tools at my previous employers so never bothered to get my own scope etc. Used to have a tiny little Tiepie USB scope for work before. They're great but expensive, so maybe get a cheaper brand this time as the money tree (savings) won't last forever Needs lots of other little bits and pieces too as well as money to fill a conainer. As you know it's not easy but I do have the advantage of at least being close to the suppliers and have good reliable people that can help communication where language or culture gets in the way. I'm focussing on what I know I can do well and the rest is seems to be coming by 1 way or another.

I'm not claiming that the 500W motor I've tested is absolute cutting edge but it offers excellent value for money and could be a viable replaement for a BMC motor where cost is an issue and you can accept some reduced performance (I don't know how different the performance actually is as I've never seen a BMC in the flesh). I know I'm not the only person to source the motor but I don't think it is widely recognised. I'd need to get hold of a BMC myself before I could determine how they compare and again that costs money.

Down the road I'd like to get involved in maybe working with this supplier and maybe some other suppliers to maybe improve the motor but that takes time and money. If I can make a few $$s to pass these or other motors over to people at reasonable costs whilst giving the best possible service I can, whilst still making enough money to fund my not so extravagant lifestyle plus grow the business into more of a devlopment and service provider that would be great that would be great. A competitive mindset is not an absolute requirement to be successful IMO, if anything I believe it is the wrong mindset. I believe if you only focus on competition you are neglecting the most important aspect of anything and that is growth. It's not easy but I think there are ways to keep all involved in any deal happy if you are honest with yourself/others and do not take more from any transaction than can be reasonably justified and ensure everyone involved receives more than they gave

If anyone has some specific questions about the cute Ananda motors I'll do my best to answer the questions. Hopefully I can get something done on them today, but I'd promised myself and the Girlfriend that I'd take a rest and we could do some stuff together. She's the best girl I've ever met so I don't want to piss her off too much as between playing with the e bike stuff I've already got, speccing the first order of ebikes, studying chinese, getting down the gym and doing as much research as possible, it can leave her feeling a bit neglected I won't find another like her so I'll have to DO AS I'M TOLD :lol:

 

[adrian_sm]

lynchy,

Time to start your own thread. This is way off topic.

Regards,
Adrian

 

[lynchy]

lynchy,

Time to start your own thread. This is way off topic.

Regards,
Adrian

Sorry you're right and I will. However I have got 4 different versions of the 108mm hub motors in my possession so will try to keep any future comments on that subject.

 

[mwkeefer]

sorry for the hijack guys - Russell, etc. I'll move my posts (OT) to another thread!

-Mike

 

[Russell]

Can somebody with one of these motors post some pics of the innards?

-R

 

[lynchy]

Russell, sorry it's taken so long. Went out today and got a load more tools and will get some material to knock up a tool to remove the side cover of the motors within a few days, hopefully tomorrow. I'm also very interested about what's inside and also how the different speed motors differ internally.

I've just measured some of the 108 motors. The 100mm wide non disk motor weighs 2.3kg. The front with disk is narrower and weighs 2.05kg. They're both the same 250W at either 24 or 36V.

 

[lynchy]

Russell and others, I've managed to get inside 3 of these motors today; 26"-24V-85mm front with disk, 26"-36V-100mm without disk and 20" 24V-100mm without disk. All these motors are the 108 type. Had to make up a special tool but got there in the end. Here are some pics to get you started. I don't have my camera so I used the webcam on my laptop.

The narrower, with disk front motor (85mm) has very different gears and the motor itself is physically smaller than the 100mm motor. The gears are partly helical on the 85mm motor and straight cut on the 100mm motor. Also compared the high speed motor for 20" rim (24V) and a 26" rim motor (36V) and they had identical gears. I have a rear 24V 26" rim, 100mm motor also. Will pull that apart and see if the gears differ on that model.

Will try to get some better pics up once I've got my camera back. Any more info required, just ask

 

[Drunkskunk]

Great pics. The helical cut gears are of interest. usualy they are stronger and quieter. Its odd that they would be on the lighter weight motor. I wounder if there is any noise diffrence between the two?

 

[lynchy]

Great pics. The helical cut gears are of interest. usualy they are stronger and quieter. Its odd that they would be on the lighter weight motor. I wounder if there is any noise diffrence between the two?

I was thinking the same with regards to the noise. I haven't had the opportunity to try the smaller motor yet but will let you guys know. The 100mm motor is a little noisy under load. I believe the helical gears are there purely because of lack of space. They are not as deep as the straight cut gears so the helical gear may have been required as I believe they are stronger for a given depth. I reckon the motor is well designed and put together. However the gears don't strike me as particularly strong so maybe not the best candidate for major overvoltage. Maybe 2 with overvolts and some current limiting would work quite well. I reckon the 85mm is just the latest version as it seems a bit of a development over the 100mm motor but it's not yet shown on any documentation or on there website.

I had a go at the rear motor also that has the 155mm axle and have now extended the thread. Just need to extend the flats and I should be able to get it into a normal sized dropout. Have some 5, 6 and single speed freewheels on the way. I think I'll put 2 * 26", 24V motors with 36V supply into a full suspension bike that's also on the way, or maybe just into the heap I've been using for the last few months. Running 2 motors should take some of the strain off the gears.