Optibike's "twist" on 2012 Pikes Peak ride

If someone makes it up faster than Opti, they'll make it an efficiency contest.

If someone makes it up more efficiently, they'll make it a looks-like-a-bike contest.

If someone makes it up faster and more efficiently, they'll make it an OTC vs. homebrew contest.


I'll revise my earlier statement...

Don't be surprised if ebikes are banned next year and the reason gets laid at the feet of homebrews and trikes... Opti would rather have no participation, than to finish behind bikes costing a fraction of theirs.


(Also, don't be surprised if the Opti data-logs are kept under cover.)
 
It must suck having to justify a $10k+ ebike....

I liked their design 3 years ago, it was amazing. I question their sanity at this point after not making any big changes.
 
TylerDurden said:
If someone makes it up faster than Opti, they'll make it an efficiency contest.

If someone makes it up more efficiently, they'll make it a looks-like-a-bike contest.

If someone makes it up faster and more efficiently, they'll make it an OTC vs. homebrew contest.


I'll revise my earlier statement...

Don't be surprised if ebikes are banned next year and the reason gets laid at the feet of homebrews and trikes... Opti would rather have no participation, than to finish behind bikes costing a fraction of theirs.


(Also, don't be surprised if the Opti data-logs are kept under cover.)
Click to expand...


Well said. This is what I was getting at earlier but my response was long winded & didn't get right to the point :)

Upon reading other comments though, I can see things from both sides. Sure, Optibike wants to make a distinction between what we ride and what they ride if they lose.. wouldn't you? If you bought a new mustang and had a civic beat you in a race would your reaction be "well I'm going to go buy a civic now"? No you'd probably say "well that car wont last long and isn't reliable". Now how about if you OWNED Ford?
 
knoxie has a good point. But it's sort of like how Safe wanted a 1000w limit on ebike racing. And we know how unpopular that is around here.........

I think they should have an open class, and a limited class to something like 1000 or 1500watts.
 
As one who was involved in motorsports for over 40 years, I may have a different slant on this. Racing is all about creating an "unfair advantage". For instance, would building a vehicle that is light and nimble have an advantage over a high horsepower heavyweight? How did Grumpy's 327 Nova beat those factory hemis in the '60s?
In a bike race, you have the rider, and equipment. A professional rider on the best equipment will kill the average man in a race. An e-bike with a pro rider adding his wattage going up hill will certainly beat the average man on equal equipment. Creating new rules, or new classes does not improve competition. The people who work the hardest, dedicate the most resources, think the smartest, train the hardest, generally win. This is particularly true whenever we narrow the rules.
I'll assume that the ruling body at pikes peak may separate cycle races into a class for human power only, and electric assist.
This will improve the breed by allowing innovation. There are several forces at work at Pikes peak, power and handling in addition to talent. The person that puts it all together the best has the "unfair advantage", and this is how we improve. One who rests on his laurels will be passed by. The trikes handled best. The big hub motor had more power. Those resting on their laurels got left behind, and now have to "spin" the result.
 
deVries said:
coming from being an avid BI-cyclist I don't see any shame or twisting of the truth to word-play past the go-cart style TRI-cyclists that pedal different position-wise & low to the ground with different aerodynamics & weight loading abilities.

I am a BIcyclist. Tour de France isn't going to allow entry of low riders, ever, period. :twisted:

[ Thankfully! :mrgreen: ]

It's ok to have a parade of eBike-creatures going up Pikes Peak together too, but let the race(s) be with pedigrees of correct breeding & type even if they run wild together at times or during a race.
Click to expand...

But PP is not the TDF, and currently PP doesnt have classes or regulations to "classify" Ebikes.
Any competitor should be aware that they race to the prevailing regulations...and at PP, that is currently "anything goes" !
So, siting power, voltage , price, etc etc is pointless...until they change the rules.

And how far do you go with.."pedigrees of correct breeding & type " .. ?
do you divide it up by frame style also ? ..Mountain bike, road Race, Time Trial, Full suspension frame, 700cc wheels, 26" wheels, metal frame, Composite frame, Weight, ??? etc etc etc..... the possibilities are endless..and pointless !
I can see a case for a "production" Ebike class ( >1000 sold) ,..but even that would be difficult to police.
 
Hillhater said:
deVries said:
coming from being an avid BI-cyclist I don't see any shame or twisting of the truth to word-play past the go-cart style TRI-cyclists that pedal different position-wise & low to the ground with different aerodynamics & weight loading abilities.

I am a BIcyclist. Tour de France isn't going to allow entry of low riders, ever, period. :twisted:

[ Thankfully! :mrgreen: ]

It's ok to have a parade of eBike-creatures going up Pikes Peak together too, but let the race(s) be with pedigrees of correct breeding & type even if they run wild together at times or during a race.
Click to expand...

But PP is not the TDF, and currently PP doesnt have classes or regulations to "classify" Ebikes.
Any competitor should be aware that they race to the prevailing regulations...and at PP, that is currently "anything goes" !
So, siting power, voltage , price, etc etc is pointless...until they change the rules.

And how far do you go with.."pedigrees of correct breeding & type " .. ?
do you divide it up by frame style also ? ..Mountain bike, road Race, Time Trial, Full suspension frame, 700cc wheels, 26" wheels, metal frame, Composite frame, Weight, ??? etc etc etc..... the possibilities are endless..and pointless !
I can see a case for a "production" Ebike class ( >1000 sold) ,..but even that would be difficult to police.
Click to expand...

I agree. Pikes Peak, and in fact most racing venues, had it's beginning in a "race what ya brung" format. It should remain so. If they get too fast, then maybe go back to the long course. Factory bikes can still puff their stuff with ads around "fastest production" bikes, or "all finished", or some other puffery. Advancements in tech will come from testing the limits and letting the smoke out.
 
Crazy talk! Heresy!
 
Grey beard said:
...Advancements in tech will come from testing the limits and letting the smoke out.
Click to expand...

I like how you think Grey beard!


... WowZa there is a V8 hiding under that purple skin! :wink:
 
All this over a 10 mile asphalt climb. I like hubs too, but geez. Wish they had'nt changed the course. Unfortunately, blew it for me. Half the distance and paved. For me the talk of a different venue appeals to me, cause this one isn't the same. Wouldn't a fun ride, annual event be the ticket for the sport?
 
I'm sure it wouldn't be long enough, steep enough, scenic enough, close enough, tough enough, paved enough, not paved enough for you. Why bother?
 
Yeah, they cut the balls out of the course for ebikes shortening it. No longer much of a challenge for a guy with the cheapest china hubmotor kit and a v power hk battery.

But it's still a pretty good ride. For pedalers of course, it's still very hard to have to pedal at 14,000 feet. We just forget it's not an ebike race at all. But even so, there are lots of roads open to bikes all summer in Colorado or New Mexico, that have similar grades for 12 miles. So why bother with PP anymore if it's the short course? It's very very clear that many many many of us have ebikes quite capable of 10% grades for 12 miles.

I'd still like to see a dirt ebike race from Lake Valley to Silverton though. Now THAT's a real challenging road. Can't even do it in June, cuz they'll still be digging the snow off the top of the pass. It's just about the premier scenic jeep road of the entire USA.
 
Hillhater said:
And how far do you go with.."pedigrees of correct breeding & type " .. ?
do you divide it up by frame style also ? ..Mountain bike, road Race, Time Trial, Full suspension frame, 700cc wheels, 26" wheels, metal frame, Composite frame, Weight, ??? etc etc etc..... the possibilities are endless..and pointless !
Click to expand...

Your putting words in my mouth I never inferred by nitpicking into the ridiculous and narrowing to the extreme. :mrgreen: Go back and read my post, which made it obvious the kinds of generalized and obvious distinctions that can be agreed upon easily now!

I also made no suggestions that any eBike type should be excluded from a race unless for safety or "space to race" considerations. No reason there can't be an "open class" or wildcat class, all within the same race of other classes that separates tricycles from bicycles and recumbents too. The more participants there are in eBike racing the more types of races there will be for more specialized and narrowed designs of eBikes allowed to race that type of race.

I'm sure until the eBike racing sport grows enough, then the "open class" of wildcats will run in the same race within a race of more narrowed classes when viable to do so. Get it??? :twisted:

At some point safety, speed, types of races, and numbers of participants will change the sport into more narrow classifications. Duh, right. ;)

Whomever makes the rules, RULES though.
 
Insert 20 pages of arguments about how to do classes in an ebike race here. ( )
 
dogman said:
Insert 20 pages of arguments about how to do classes in an ebike race here. ( )
Click to expand...

Easy. Go get Safe back here, he'd do that repeatedly until we're all heartily sick of it............................ :D
 
I'm already heartily sick of it. :p I'm all up for the run-whatcha-brung racing school. Make it complicated and I dont' see a reason to bother.

I do see why people might want to break stuff out into separate classes, setup power or weight rules, or whatever, to make things "fair", but really unless eveyrone involved in each race is going to have desire, time, and energy to nitpick everything on every bike and argue about every race result and whatnot, it's still not going to be "fair" to someone (or some groups, or whatever).
 
Yep. Run whatcha brung. It's a closed course, so street legal or not is not applicable. If two riders want to create thier own personal class and run against each other after agreeing on limits, they are welcome to do so.
 
TylerDurden said:
itchynackers said:
I certainly don't claim to be a guru here, just another guy learning from the rest.
Click to expand...
Except you are the friggin MAN...!

You got out there, cooked up a batch of whoop-ass and gave everybody the recipe. :twisted:
Click to expand...

I am a former Opti-owner and appreciate the Pikes Peak challenge. I love reading the build up hoopla every year on this forum. It is good for the technology and industry.

About this race, congrats to Itchy and FFR. That said, the ES community needs to stop squalking and get more entries there next year.

I hope it does go back to 24 miles and add some endurance to the race. More of a challenge will show the superiority/and lack of the designs.

Until we have 2 or 3 bikes going up in smoke, along with 4 or 5 designs finishing competitively, the race is yet to mature.

I don't really care if it is 500w or 5000W. Let'em in, make em pedal. The facts speak for themeselves and some comparisons ar ebetter than others. A broad spectrum of designs will show how good and how poor is the standard they test against: the Optibike design.

If you form team competitions, my money is still on the Opti team.
 
Bike_on said:
If you form team competitions, my money is still on the Opti team.
Click to expand...

Didn't ichy win by a huge margin over optibike on a $200 hubmotor with $5 of oil added to the inside, a cheapy controller and a few RC lipo packs?

What's your thinking on placing the bet on an Opti?
 
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