Pikes Peak Race--Entering?

[liveforphysics]

Downhill on a non-closed-course (other cyclists heading up) is suicide.

The bikes would be going well over 100mph if setup to win.
I personally wouldn't participate in that.

 

[MadRhino]

...speed limits enforced, not part of the "Non-race".

I'm not sure I can translate this part to make sense in my native language. :lol:

 

[Alan B]

The uphill is not a "race", but is timed and reported. The downhill is optional, speed limited and not reported.

 

[kfong]

The uphill time is the only numbers we would be interested in anyways. Going back down would be fun as long as that part is not a race. The speed has to be limited to keep people safe. How often do you get a chance to cruise down a big ass hill without traffic. I doubt if you would want to go fast anyways as the turns are sharp and the drop offs are steep. Regen would be cool, but you will definitely want reliable brakes.

 

[dogman dan]

As I read it, the down part is just getting back down. Not part of the race, and cops will enforce the speed limits posted on the road for the down riders. Or you can take a bus. Presumably, you wait a bit at the top, and there is nearly no uphill riders left when you decend nice and lesiurely.

Sounds like fun, but pikes peak is a suprising long distance from home. Colorado and New Mexico are dang big states.

I'd be real interested to see how a stock kit, like an Ebikekit would fare on that mountain. Give it 36v, WOT, and a big battery. Run er till she blows. My kind of fun. I know from my own testing that setup will do 10 miles of that kind of climb, but 24.5 miles, that's a test! I figure a stock kit would make it up easily on 36v 30 ah. I'd be expecting to maintain at least 15 mph all the way up.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Or he made a mistake... How to prove it?

well, i was prepared to give the benefit of the doubt it was a simple oversight.

that is until Herr Craig T. Göbbels who ostensibly don't have got no time to waste on public forums,
took the time out of his biz-zay schedule to doth protest in the odd manner that he did was the clincher.




i'll give the guy his props he's definitely slick, doesn't miss a trick.
after all, he can convince people to cough up 10X the going rate over other ebikes that have better performance.

EGM, count yer lucky stars u walked away from that breakfast meeting without having been sold a deed to the golden gate bridge and/or gotten impregnated, he's just that good.

 

[knoxie]

:lol: wtf this is the strangest thread i have read on here for a while?? Pikes Peak always seems to throw this up? you wanna check out the power assist forum if you want to see arguments over this one, lets not bring that kind of BS to this forum please, those who are going to race go but do your homework, its not as easy as it first looks Opti have always held this up as an achievement without any serious competition, so if you are serious make some competition for them its on the wrong side of the pond for me, however I have 2 rides in my garage that would do it with style 8)

Yes, it sure is strange over there. Maybe we should organise our own hill climb in the UK, a proper gentlemen's event. Rules would include wearing plus fours and carrying a bottle of champers.

Seriously, though, a hill climb is possibly more attractive to many e-bikers than a race on the level, as there's a good chance with a nearly legal bike. There is also a long tradition of hill climb competitions in the gasser, sorry, petroleum world. It might not be difficult to find a series of venues.

How about this for starters http://www.wiscombepark.co.uk/news/news1.html

Nick

Hi Nick

Thats the first I have heard of that race, looks pretty cool though..the speeds they do 125mph! amazing, isnt goodwood also a hill race as well? I think there is room for both! its getting the participants is the problem! I mean there are quite a few ebikes over here but not that many high powered ones and then you have to find folks who want to race, I would be more than happy to race and in fact did race Steve and his Dirt Monkey years ago (that was great fun) so I am more than up for a race and have loads of bikes and batteries to choose from.

I went up to the Shenningtion Kart track near my house the other day, I must make enquiries to see what they charge or to see if its possible to tack and event on to an alrady scheduled event? they are mainly geared at gas karts but they may do something if we ask nicely.

So yes I would be up for a bit of ebike racing, might even make me sort some of my rides out so that they handle better :lol: at least move my batteries in to the frame, didnt you win the Welsh event? rally? that was normally fixed by the sponsor so his bikes won? I should have turned up years ago and smoked em to prove a point

 

[dogman dan]

If the politics is bothering anybody, the thing to do is show up and kick some ass.

For those not familiar with hills more than 1/2 mile long, 12 mph for 7700 vertical feet is not bad at all. It won't be that easy to beat that with a hubmotor without overheating it.

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Nick

Thats the first I have heard of that race, looks pretty cool though..the speeds they do 125mph! amazing, isnt goodwood also a hill race as well? I think there is room for both! its getting the participants is the problem! I mean there are quite a few ebikes over here but not that many high powered ones and then you have to find folks who want to race, I would be more than happy to race and in fact did race Steve and his Dirt Monkey years ago (that was great fun) so I am more than up for a race and have loads of bikes and batteries to choose from.

I went up to the Shenningtion Kart track near my house the other day, I must make enquiries to see what they charge or to see if its possible to tack and event on to an alrady scheduled event? they are mainly geared at gas karts but they may do something if we ask nicely.

So yes I would be up for a bit of ebike racing, might even make me sort some of my rides out so that they handle better :lol: at least move my batteries in to the frame, didnt you win the Welsh event? rally? that was normally fixed by the sponsor so his bikes won? I should have turned up years ago and smoked em to prove a point

I think there are hill climbs and kart tracks all over the country; all we need is a group who want to compete to make it worth approaching them.

Yes, I won the hill climb and both races at the Tour de Presteigne in 2009. It was turning into a needle match between Kalkhoff (spelling?) and eZee. I was given a new motor by eZee to compete, but I realised that other peeps were going to turn up with homebuilts, so to cover all eventualities I put a special together and loaned my eZee Torq to a proper racing cyclist. The homebuilt specials won, but eZee was top of the commercially availables.

Nick

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

seems only hubbies need apply.
the opti-pikers are running (very slowly) scared.
already conceding defeat to half the field.

and the 'bad-taste' of sweet irony is too delicious.

Chess: I think the ES challenge is a good one....let them bring their
best hub design...not a mid drive.






For ANY, ANY, ANY non-mid drive hub ebike, on Pikes in 2011...show me
the $$$ that they will beat the Opti.

If they do win, my first question is "How many modified their standard
ride with a high torque hub?" Opti doesn't need special and major
modifications, they just change gears.

One more thing: The Assault on the Peak is a bicycle ride up Pike's Peak. Showing up with a motorcycle class vehicle would be in bad taste.

http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group/browse_thread/thread/5992a86e9879989f#

 

[Green Machine]

I have been doing my best to make some $$$$$$ off the race:

To Private message to Nimbuzz after he challenged me to put my money where my mouth is (what a putz that guy nimbuzz):
EGM wrote:

Ok al....lets bet...
How much you want to bet that opti loses title this year...
you seem well to do...lets do gentleman's bet......i will bet you 10k...
Stop with the BS...lets race.

No response from nimbuzz....dead air.

Then on the optigroups in response to the cocky $$$$ challenge mentioned above:

EGM: But if you dont think a modified hub moter Enless Sphere will win that race over a stock opti...i will make that bet with you. Do you seriously want to bet? i will put up the $$$$$$ with you no problem.

Let me know if your serious and then we can define terms of bet.ERIC

He responded like this:

Bike-on

I don't bet for $, just for a beer or soda, etc.

And finally my masterpiece...i bet the guys on optigroup $1000 that none of them could beat me on my stock 24v Ego Scooter Momas mobile i bought on craigslist for $500. THey talked some smack...but nobody took me up on my offer...despite several opti owners who live nearby:

Ok then lets see if the optibike can beat my $500 craigslist special...ego scooter in a 5 mile road race here in SF...you pick the course 5 miles... I will put up a $1000 wager against anyone who will show up here in sf in next 3 days on stock opti...i swear.

See pic of ego scooter below...500 dollar craiglist special.



The last one i was afraid i might lose...remember the ego has no pedals...but they all talked a bunch of snooty rich guy smack but refused my offer.

I am pro poker player and take bets very seriously. If i make a bet i keep my word and have made many many ridiculous side bets (we call them prop bets) that i feel i am positive EV on (ev = equity value)

Those guys on opti groups are a pretty interesting demographic...not much fun unless you hit them head on with a lot of flamboyant rhetoric...then they just catch on fire and spout off in their maddening rich guy spouts...they are fun to play with....come join in on the fun. I do like the people from optibike when they post....they are good people. Nicholas Turner, Jims son answers my posts a lot...and he seems like a smart hip kid. And Craig..i met him..is really cool guy..the kind of guy you would invite to your party in a second. I really liked him.

 

[nicobie]

"I am pro poker player and take bets very seriously."

Have you met our Morph999? He plays poker too. I have a feeling that you guys would hit it off right away.

 

[dogman dan]

I'm not so positive a designed for a bike hubmotor would finish that climb. I've melted a few, some deliberate, some accidental. Over watting a hubbie to do that climb would be a mistake I think. Right winding and 1000 watts might be the real ticket. But then you may be slower than the opti.

A stock 9 continent kit at 48v, (1200 watts) would be much faster than 12 mph. But for how long? I've never pushed one on such a hill further than 10 miles.
I seriously think most of you out there have no idea how tough a ride this pikes peak thing is.

A 2807 motor in 20 inch rim would be an interesting thing to try on it.

 

[MadRhino]

I'm not so positive a designed for a bike hubmotor would finish that climb...

Neither am I. My setup wouldn't do it without a cooling pause, but would do very fast until then. Active cooling should be necessary to build a hub that would climb that high at any interesting performance.

 

[Alan B]

Perhaps we need to design the "boiling water 9C hubmotor". A small tube inlet to bring in water when the temperature exceeds 100C, and some spring loaded vents to release steam when present.

 

[bigmoose]

Alan, I have thought about what is your idea many times. A mist of de-ionized water into the hubbie is seriously something I would consider. The heat of vaporization is an awesome cooler for copper!

 

[kfong]

Yep, even with my BMC setup built for torque at 40 volts with a max speed of 21mph in the flats would have a tough time on that hill. I think it would burn out or melt the gears before finishing. I've ridden it continouly in 90+ temps in the trails for that distance, but this continuos climb won't allow for any cooling. I'm carrying 20 useable ahrs and know that won't be enough even if I could pedal, which won't be enough without some training at altitude. A bit more planning is required for this event. If I lived there I would love to just see how well my setup would do on my own since the road is open to the public. I hope we see some more ebikes trying this year.

 

[kfong]

Double post

 

[kfong]

Alan, I have thought about what is your idea many times. A mist of de-ionized water into the hubbie is seriously something I would consider. The heat of vaporization is an awesome cooler for copper!

Bigmoose that is actually a very doable and practical idea. Something to really consider for such events. I picked up a pump style mister that atomized the water to keep you cool on walks or hanging out at the beach. It lasts longer than I thought due to the small amounts dispersed. It really cools you off with the lightest breeze

Take this and aim it into the holes drilled in hub motors and the cooling would be significant. Use 2 of them, one on either side and I bet it would solve the overheating problems this year's death race hub motors had. Fill them up for each race.

 

[Tom Tom]

How about an astro driven thru the crank?

Pic of pikes peak this morning...........

 

[liveforphysics]

Alan, I have thought about what is your idea many times. A mist of de-ionized water into the hubbie is seriously something I would consider. The heat of vaporization is an awesome cooler for copper!

This was the reason I went to ceramic bearings in my HT35. So I could play with flood/mist cooling options and not worry about the bearings. (not that bearings would ever be a concern for a race bike anyways, but for long-term commuter etc)

I tried an inverted can of computer duster on the stator, bathing it with boiling compressed gas liquid. It had a depressingly minimal effect, taking an entire large can of duster to drop the stator from room temp to ~25degF. Boiling off just a few CC's of water could offer more energy absorption than the whole can of duster. But of course, the water does nothing for you until the motor exceeds 100C, and a mist system could potentially lead to destroying the magnets if the steam temps reach the 200degC, and the excellent thermal transfer between steam and the magnets exceeds the currie temp. Though, if the flow rate was high enough, water should collect in the magnet ring area and not enable them to exceed 100C despite getting steam blasted.

Perhaps a very open vented motor and a ring of jets mounted on the outside spraying at the coils through the vents in the side cover.

Or a ducted-fan-jet motor.

 

[kfong]

Luke, with the water atomized instead of jets of water. I think it would vaporized before any water would have a chance to soak into the motor. Really worth trying I think for such competitions. Doctorbass showed a venturi effect with outer ring of holes and holes near the center. This could draw the mist into the motor for you.

Here is the mist bottle I picked up at the store a couple of years ago. Pressure is built up by the pump, simple and works remarkably well.

 

[Arlo1]

I want to but we need to see if my bike is done by then.

 

[Arlo1]

Downhill on a non-closed-course (other cyclists heading up) is suicide.

The bikes would be going well over 100mph if setup to win.
I personally wouldn't participate in that.

The only thing you would be afraid of is another blown motor on your bike and someone coming back down running into you!
We both know you would not be afraid if your bike was actualy reliable enough to make it :wink:


As fir the rest I just read this thread and can't belive the garbage it has lol.
And here I thought I was tring to get in on a real electric motorcycle race.

 

[bigmoose]

Luke, lets take the mist a step further. Increase the frame to a more monocoupe style construction and fill it with water. Put one of those good CPU cooling pumps that A-Jester referenced a few months ago at the bottom of the "tank" Start with misting at the bottom, because the wheel (magnets) will sling it around and jumble it up inside the motor. Cooling holes each side. Mist it in on the side with a ring of "holes" to spray through. I will bet you will never reach 200 C, it will be way cooler than it would be on air, everywhere. Magnets will not be a problem, blow dry when done and WD40 them.

I seriously have been thinking of this for a long time... also I wish someone would seal the side covers and fill one of these hubs 1/8 to 1/6 full of Dow Corning Heat transfer fluid, SYLTHERM XLT or SYLTHERM HF. Then we can add convective fins to the HubOD between the spokes to convect the heat out. Again, not a lot of oil, but a moving mist inside the housing. It would need "atomizers" that dip into the pool of oil that is being held to the outside by centripetal forces. Take some tinkering, or if we worked for Mr. Big... some en-gen-eer-inn!