I bought a tab welder after finding a really good deal last week. Today the voltage dawned on me and I now see in the description it states 220v, the title didn't state it's voltage. Do these require alot of power to run? I see many cheap converters on ebay that are 100w max. Or if it comes down to it I guess I could rewire my water heater or electric dryer and wire a female plug.
Bought a 220v tab welder, I have 120v. Any cheap solutions?
- Thread starter silviasol
- Start date
dnmun
1 PW
do you have access to the service panel? we can show you how to get 240v out of it.
Nehmo
10 kW
I believe you mean a "spot" welder that you plan to use welding tabs.silviasol said:
Because welders come in various sizes, and if the only specification you provide is the voltage it uses, there's no way to determine the wattage, iow, the power it uses.
While we're on the subject, you need to learn that power is the Rate of doing work. A 2,000 watt heater can heat up a given room twice as fast an a 1,000 watt heater.
If your e-dryer uses 240V (the lines are supposed to supply 240V and the appliances are supposed to be able to work on 220V. This takes into consideration the real-life voltage drop between the service panel and the appliance. That's why you see both 220 and 240.), you can easily plug (or wire) in your 240 V welder into the receptacle outlet. E-dryers take a different type of plug than welders usually, and plug types sometimes indicate a power range, but the job is simple.
(Or as Dunn suggested, you can wire a new circuit for a receptacle outlet from the service panel.)
Finally, you can use a step-up transformer to transform your regular US line voltage into 240v.
There's at least three easy options other than wiring a new outlet.silviasol said:
First is to see if there is already an adapter that goes from your welders' plug type to your dryer's wall socket type, and buy that.
Second option is to go to the hardware store and get the parts to make an adapter: the male plug to match your dryer's wall outlet, and a female socket to match your welder's plug, and a short length of cable with the right wires for your purpose. If you don't know the specifics about electrical wiring like this, you'll want someone to tell you exactly which wires from the welder-type socket go into which pins on the dryer-type plug. (you can research it and find it, too, but it is safer to find out from someone that has done this before).
Third is to go to the hardware store and get the male plug to match your dryer's wall outlet, and replace the plug presently on the welder with it. If you don't know the specifics about electrical wiring like this, you'll want someone to tell you exactly which wires from the welder's cord go into which pins on the plug. (you can research it and find it, too, but it is safer to find out from someone that has done this before).
friendly1uk
1 MW
silviasol said:
Sounds like you already have the best solution. Moving to another room or getting a longer lead is likely the quickest option. However many items made for the world market can be switched between 110-120 or 220-240v. Though it is still going to be easier to put a 240v socket in unless such a switch is available to consumers, generally positioned beside the cable entry point.
Nehmo, a 3kw dryer dropping 20v across it's supply wiring has lost 250w to heating the cables. That aint right.
dogman dan
1 PW
More likely there is at least 20v of variation during the day. Drop in the wiring with AC is not that bad, unless you have 200' of cord rolled out. More likely no more than 50' of 12g wire between the panel and a dryer or water heater.
All old ceramic artists know to time the firing of the electric kiln so it finishes by dawn. If you don't, at sunrise all the coffee pots and TV's turn on, voltage drops, and your kiln will take 2 extra hours to reach final temperature and finish.
I'd look to the dryer plug, or stove plug first. Then if that is hard for some reason, you can look to wiring a 220 outlet from the panel.
All old ceramic artists know to time the firing of the electric kiln so it finishes by dawn. If you don't, at sunrise all the coffee pots and TV's turn on, voltage drops, and your kiln will take 2 extra hours to reach final temperature and finish.
I'd look to the dryer plug, or stove plug first. Then if that is hard for some reason, you can look to wiring a 220 outlet from the panel.
friendly1uk
1 MW
Totally off topic:
used to be 240~ +/- 6% here.
Now it's 230~ +10% -6% as they want 6% still but we have 240v in many places still, and 230 +10% is the same as 240 +6%
6% is quite high, as things like older hid lighting want 5% to meet their design spec. They are totally in the hands of the supply voltage, as they offer no means of self regulation. Hence many come with a multi-tapped transformer so you can get it right for your given line voltage.
Where 6% is likely, goods must be able to work under an even more diverse supply voltage. We can't have 240v gear that is only +/- 4% or it dies. It wouldn't last long. Kit can take a wider voltage spread than the supply must maintain. It is this tolerance that means 220v stickered stuff can run on a 240v supply. When testing portable appliances (which sucks as a job) nothing labeled as 220v fails testing.
Goods made for a world market are often stickered up differently just to keep consumers happy. Sell in the US as 220v and here as 230v while really being the same item. It is rare to open something and find a choice of 220 or 240 on a transformer these days. Unless supply voltage is the main means of regulation and it really matters that much. Such as the efficiency of lighting or the reproduction of audio.
Many goods now have little interest if the supply is 90v or 270. They can regulate it anyway. People use my 240vac phone charger on there DC bike batteries. Stickers really are just to keep people happy sometimes.
used to be 240~ +/- 6% here.
Now it's 230~ +10% -6% as they want 6% still but we have 240v in many places still, and 230 +10% is the same as 240 +6%
6% is quite high, as things like older hid lighting want 5% to meet their design spec. They are totally in the hands of the supply voltage, as they offer no means of self regulation. Hence many come with a multi-tapped transformer so you can get it right for your given line voltage.
Where 6% is likely, goods must be able to work under an even more diverse supply voltage. We can't have 240v gear that is only +/- 4% or it dies. It wouldn't last long. Kit can take a wider voltage spread than the supply must maintain. It is this tolerance that means 220v stickered stuff can run on a 240v supply. When testing portable appliances (which sucks as a job) nothing labeled as 220v fails testing.
Goods made for a world market are often stickered up differently just to keep consumers happy. Sell in the US as 220v and here as 230v while really being the same item. It is rare to open something and find a choice of 220 or 240 on a transformer these days. Unless supply voltage is the main means of regulation and it really matters that much. Such as the efficiency of lighting or the reproduction of audio.
Many goods now have little interest if the supply is 90v or 270. They can regulate it anyway. People use my 240vac phone charger on there DC bike batteries. Stickers really are just to keep people happy sometimes.
Not knowing what house or even what country applies, for typical US electric codes, over current protection is provided by the circuit breaker feeding the outlet. The small tab/spot welders I am familiar with are designed for a 15 - 20 amp outlet. Plugging one into a 30 amp (dryer) or 50 amp (stove) outlet will not provide protection if there is a fault in the machine. Imagine the energy available to a fault with a 50 amp breaker. There are many of us that have done this but we are taking chances that conventional US electric codes do not allow uninformed consumers to take.
friendly1uk
1 MW
dbaker said:
Good catch.
Plugs without fuses. It's like being on holiday again.
dnmun
1 PW
100W on 240V is about .4A current.
Since they recommend 20amp for tin tabs so that would be like a 2000w converter? I guess I will have to go with wiring a 220v plug in then. Is there a name for the kind of plug that it uses, I see a bunch of different 220v female plugs when I search it.
If the voltage is 240v, will that damage the welder if I plug it in or like friendly1uk says is it just the same running 240v on stuff labeled 220v? I have to move a bunch of stuff out of my closet to get to my water heater before I can test the voltage.
If the voltage is 240v, will that damage the welder if I plug it in or like friendly1uk says is it just the same running 240v on stuff labeled 220v? I have to move a bunch of stuff out of my closet to get to my water heater before I can test the voltage.
dnmun
1 PW
you don't have to test the voltage. what type of plug is on your spot welder?
if you can you get access to the service panel, then just run a new cable out to a duplex outlet and plug your spot welder into an extension cord from that duplex outlet.
if you take a picture of it we can show you where to attach your new wires to the circuit breakers.
if you can you get access to the service panel, then just run a new cable out to a duplex outlet and plug your spot welder into an extension cord from that duplex outlet.
if you take a picture of it we can show you where to attach your new wires to the circuit breakers.
dogman dan
1 PW
If you do have some empty slots in your panel, then it will not be hard to wire up a 20 amps, 220 v plug nearby. You switch off the power, so it's safe to touch that stuff doing the work.
This assumes your breaker panel is in a garage. If its in a bedroom closet or something dumb, then it won't be convenient to tap in there.
Picture of your box, with the door open is a great starting point.
This assumes your breaker panel is in a garage. If its in a bedroom closet or something dumb, then it won't be convenient to tap in there.
Picture of your box, with the door open is a great starting point.
marty
1 MW
Question? In the USA most small stuff runs on 120V. 2 wires, Hot and Neutral.
Here Mains electricity by country I see other countries are 220V, 230V, or 240V. Do you have Hot and Neutral or two Hots?
Marty method of testing which wire is hot? Get a tester like this:
Hold one probe with your finger. Touch other probe to the wire. Light lights up dim when you got 120V. This don't work with all testers. Cheap ones work best.
Here Mains electricity by country I see other countries are 220V, 230V, or 240V. Do you have Hot and Neutral or two Hots?
Marty method of testing which wire is hot? Get a tester like this:
Hold one probe with your finger. Touch other probe to the wire. Light lights up dim when you got 120V. This don't work with all testers. Cheap ones work best.
speedmd
10 MW
I would run a new 15a circuit for the welder from the panel. Easy job with the right help. Second choice if the welder can not be changed to run 110v is a step up transformer. Ebay has them listed and not very expensive.
dnmun
1 PW
dogman dan said:
if you take the screws off that hold the cover onto the service entrance box then you will see there are two large wires coming in at the top and each of the breakers, one after the next, is connected to an alternating set of lugs sticking out from the back side of the box. each of those alternating lugs is one phase of the 240V. so there is 120V between each of those lugs and the ground wire, the bare copper wires, and the white ones on the 120v circuits are also at ground but they are called the 'common' wire.
you really do not need a separate set of breakers since you can connect the new outlet to two adjacent circuit breakers currently being used by putting the new wire under the screw along with the old wire to the old circuit.
to get the wire out of the service box, you have to punch out one of those multiringed holes around the perimeter you see where the wires exit the box. you need to use a grommet inside the metal hole and around the outside of the new wire. you can buy the grommet at the store. little plastic things with dog leg like hooks to hold it in the hole, then the wire goes through that.
find a place on the wall where you know from examination that you can run the wire out of the box to that spot on the wall and set a repair box there. you will have to cut the hole in the wall to fit the repair box but do not put the box in yet.
run your wire out of the service panel through the new hole and grommet over to where the repair box is since you will need to get your hands inside the wall to get the wire over there to the repair box. then punch out the opening in the repair box and pull your wire into the box, then put the repair box in the wall and tighten up the dog ears that hold it in place.
wire up your duplex outlet with the two wires, black and white on each side and put the bare copper ground on the ground leg. then go put the black wire on one of the breakers and put the white wire on the adjacent breaker so there is 240V across them and put the bare copper ground wire on the ground buss, what is called the service ground bar in the box.
then turn on the breakers again and you will then have a 240V duplex outlet. label it with red fingernail polish so you know which one it is later and so other idiots don't use it for 120V service. you can run an extension cord to your spot welder from there.
The breakers say 120v/240v so I assume it is 240v. There are screws to remove the panel so I assume I can add the breaker then cut a hole in the wall behind the panel which will allow me to wire a 240v plug in the small room behind the panel with the water heater. Or an easier way would be to wire directly to the wire clamps on the water heater when I need to use it.
dnmun
1 PW
that is ok too. the access panel on top of your water heater will come off and underneath the cable will be connected to the water heater wiring through wire nuts and you can unscrew the wire nut and add another conductor for your new service, and then twist all three of them together with your pliers to make sure they are super tightly twisted together and then put the wire nut back on. connect your ground of the new wire to that bare copper wire that is under the screw head on top there. twist them together, but the water heater case has to remain grounded for safety.
dnmun
1 PW
you could cut the male end from an extension cord and put those leads under the wire nut on your water heater and peel up one corner of that metal cap that the 10-2wG romex goes through. use some pliers and just bend the corner up enuff that there is space almost for the cord to go out under the screwed down cover. then pull your extension cord out under that little lip. then when you tighten the cap back down it will hold the extension cord clamped between the faces. then just run the extension cord over to where you are gonna use the spot welder.
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