Meaning of generic controller wiring labels? Index + review of forum-member bought controllers? and more questions

[mindgames11]

so I fried my controller (I think. most likely. could be the display) by connecting a tail light that had a two pin juliet connector to a free and (of course) unlabeled two pin plug on my controller. apparently no protection features on that output. the dingleberrys at ebikeling didn't send me any documentation even after I spoke with them on the phone and they said they would- which I of course followed up with an email.
whatever, I bought a new controller off amazon (actually, I have three amazon controllers which all have essentially the same wires). I understand the Throttle, 3 phase wires, hall sensor wires, DC in- but there are a bunch of other wires that I don't understand the labeling of, how to utilize them, and if their use/nonuse could impact performance.
the one I plan on hooking to my e bike is a Motoberry brushless controller 48/60/64V 1000W 40A. this one has a wire labeled "lcd instrument line"- I'm assuming that's for a display, but I don't even have the energy to address the fact that there are no display standards, nor have I found user compiled information about the various display protocols and what controllers might use them.
"pointer meter line"- what is that?
"three speed" I pretty much understand the three speed concept. do most people leave this disconnected, wire it into "high" mode, or attach a switch to it?
alarm wires- I don't understand how these work. will leaving them disconnected prevent operation of the controller?

are there (non youtube) hook-up examples for controllers?

also, I got some LED headlights- one variety with the horn integrated into the lamp housing, another without. both have three wires. and of course NONE OF THESE THINGS COME WITH ANY WIRING DIAGRAMS! I have not gotten a single thing with something even resembling instructions, let alone a data sheet, schematic or wiring diagram and it's making me apoplectic.

there are stickied posts in the forum, but they're nearing a decade old. is there a place where an Index + review of "generic" amazon/ebay/aliexpress controllers and other components exists?

random questions:
why are e scooters rated so much higher in their power? most scooters I see are at least 500 watts, with many over 1000. Is it because scooter motors are gearless/direct drive and can handle a higher power rating (even if their controllers/batteries can't?)?


I've been looking for a 48v geared hub motor attatched to a 20 inch wheel and can't find anything in that wheel size that isn't 36v. why is that?

 

[lnanek]

Those labels come from putting Chinese into a translation app, so they are pretty random. Not very standardized.

Escooters aren't legally forced to such low speeds.

 

[mindgames11]

Well I happen to find a lovely webpage that for some reason is able to provide all of the information that every single seller of brushless DC motor controllers on Amazon is unable to reveal for some strange secrecy or thumb in the eye of the customers purpose.

48 Volt Electric Scooter Speed Controllers - ElectricScooterParts.com

48 Volt electric scooter and electric bike speed controllers.

www.electricscooterparts.com

What about a webpage where every involved hobby is who buys an Amazon eBay or AliExpress motor controller motor etc. reports on that product perhaps even opening up the controller taking and uploading a few photos (I've taken photos of every controller that I could get my hands on so I can see what the power transistors are being used what the micro controller ships are and pretty much all other ICs. I'm somewhat surprised at the ratio of the passive components to active components and integrated circuits and motor controllers generally there is the main motor control unit the output transistors, and may be a few TO 92 transistors (I saw one that was a 5v regulator) and some six or eight pin DIP power regulation/input output

 

[E-HP]

there are stickied posts in the forum, but they're nearing a decade old. is there a place where an Index + review of "generic" amazon/ebay/aliexpress controllers and other components exists?

Luckily not much has changed in a decade, so most stickies are still OK. Not exactly what you're looking for, and still a work in progress (not a sticky); I added a Chinglish to English translator section to my Newb FAQ but just adding to it if i see something unusual. Not much there yet, except the oddball things I come across.

DIY Newb FAQ?

I think I've read through all of the stickies in the ebike forums, which provide great guidance. Yet, I see a lot a new folks getting into ebikes and posting questions that are not in the stickies, or are embedded somewhere among the existing stickies. Another observation is there are...

endless-sphere.com

 

[neptronix]

There are tens of thousands of low quality part resellers constantly cycling through random products that come with zero documentation. Many times these products are given new model/brand/name.

It's almost futile to document these fly by night products, and not a good idea to buy them in the first place.

My answer to this is... no specs? no diagram? no buy.... period.

What i do agree with is that we need some changes to the forum to make documenting this stuff a lot easier.

 

[E-HP]

What i do agree with is that we need some changes to the forum to make documenting this stuff a lot easier.

Not sure what the new platform supports, but maybe consider converting the stickies that may become outdated into wiki’s so they can be kept current be any interested members (like those who tend to field the same questions over and over). Forum rules and other stuff that doesn’t update frequently can use the stickies.
Maybe there’s a way to make draft edits that can be vetted then accepted as a new update, to maintain accuracy.

 

[orcasprout]

it's making me apoplectic.

Love your vocabulary Mindgames! I use that term daily in my eBike repair business.

I wonder if Chat GPT/AI can be employed to do all the documentation "dirty work"...hmmm.

I could absolutely use an updated wiring/compatibility sticky/wiki. I imagine if we had a vulcan mind meld with some of the heavyweights here it could be done in a short while (looking at you Amberwolf).

no specs? no diagram? no buy

Totally agree but this cheap stuff rolls in my door daily and I'm sometimes a sucker to say, "sure I'll try and fix it".

 

[neptronix]

Not sure what the new platform supports, but maybe consider converting the stickies that may become outdated into wiki’s so they can be kept current be any interested members (like those who tend to field the same questions over and over). Forum rules and other stuff that doesn’t update frequently can use the stickies.
Maybe there’s a way to make draft edits that can be vetted then accepted as a new update, to maintain accuracy.

We've investigated all options:
- the xenforo knowledgebase system sucks
- all open source packages we've tried suck and hit a major useability/functionality wall somewhere. We did a full eval in 2021.
- using third party services would be unsuitable due to the per user cost.

The easiest route to a good knowledgebase that links into the forum is custom software. I will announce that effort in a month or two.

 

[imgonnawreckthisthing]

Well I happen to find a lovely webpage that for some reason is able to provide all of the information that every single seller of brushless DC motor controllers on Amazon is unable to reveal for some strange secrecy or thumb in the eye of the customers purpose.

48 Volt Electric Scooter Speed Controllers - ElectricScooterParts.com

48 Volt electric scooter and electric bike speed controllers.

www.electricscooterparts.com

What about a webpage where every involved hobby is who buys an Amazon eBay or AliExpress motor controller motor etc. reports on that product perhaps even opening up the controller taking and uploading a few photos (I've taken photos of every controller that I could get my hands on so I can see what the power transistors are being used what the micro controller ships are and pretty much all other ICs. I'm somewhat surprised at the ratio of the passive components to active components and integrated circuits and motor controllers generally there is the main motor control unit the output transistors, and may be a few TO 92 transistors (I saw one that was a 5v regulator) and some six or eight pin DIP power regulation/input output

sometimes if you look long enough youll find exactly what you need

i freaking love you man

 

[imgonnawreckthisthing]

m

so I fried my controller (I think. most likely. could be the display) by connecting a tail light that had a two pin juliet connector to a free and (of course) unlabeled two pin plug on my controller. apparently no protection features on that output. the dingleberrys at ebikeling didn't send me any documentation even after I spoke with them on the phone and they said they would- which I of course followed up with an email.
whatever, I bought a new controller off amazon (actually, I have three amazon controllers which all have essentially the same wires). I understand the Throttle, 3 phase wires, hall sensor wires, DC in- but there are a bunch of other wires that I don't understand the labeling of, how to utilize them, and if their use/nonuse could impact performance.
the one I plan on hooking to my e bike is a Motoberry brushless controller 48/60/64V 1000W 40A. this one has a wire labeled "lcd instrument line"- I'm assuming that's for a display, but I don't even have the energy to address the fact that there are no display standards, nor have I found user compiled information about the various display protocols and what controllers might use them.
"pointer meter line"- what is that?
"three speed" I pretty much understand the three speed concept. do most people leave this disconnected, wire it into "high" mode, or attach a switch to it?
alarm wires- I don't understand how these work. will leaving them disconnected prevent operation of the controller?

are there (non youtube) hook-up examples for controllers?

also, I got some LED headlights- one variety with the horn integrated into the lamp housing, another without. both have three wires. and of course NONE OF THESE THINGS COME WITH ANY WIRING DIAGRAMS! I have not gotten a single thing with something even resembling instructions, let alone a data sheet, schematic or wiring diagram and it's making me apoplectic.

there are stickied posts in the forum, but they're nearing a decade old. is there a place where an Index + review of "generic" amazon/ebay/aliexpress controllers and other components exists?

random questions:
why are e scooters rated so much higher in their power? most scooters I see are at least 500 watts, with many over 1000. Is it because scooter motors are gearless/direct drive and can handle a higher power rating (even if their controllers/batteries can't?)?


I've been looking for a 48v geared hub motor attatched to a 20 inch wheel and can't find anything in that wheel size that isn't 36v. why is that?

my greenbike is a bafang 500w on a 20” fat tire 48v

 

[mindgames11]

There are tens of thousands of low quality part resellers constantly cycling through random products that come with zero documentation. Many times these products are given new model/brand/name.

It's almost futile to document these fly by night products, and not a good idea to buy them in the first place.

My answer to this is... no specs? no diagram? no buy.... period.

What i do agree with is that we need some changes to the forum to make documenting this stuff a lot easier.

I theoretically agree with your no specs no buy ethos (and the rest of your writing) but in practice I've seen so few products (esp modern products... I love the service manuals for 20+ year old high end audio gear) that actually have a level of documentation that I'd be willing to pay extra for, particularly considering that the nameless controllers on ali/amazon/ebay are an order of magnitude cheaper than the devices from "reputable" brands (many of which-and not knocking this, because it certainly is something) are likely just quality controlled and slightly documented versions of the Chinese mystery products.

I just know that a good portion of knowledgeable people are buying these and with the zero-effort taken by the supply chain that sells the stuff, some end users could make a significant difference contributing images and creating even the slightest of documentation.
I wish there were a wiki type place where versions of products could be documented with their sellers, prices, etc.

side note: I've never seen more than one different batch/logo on circuit board components until I got some BMS boards from ali express. all the power chips appear the same, but clearly from very different batches. I've got a few that have 4 styles on one board.

 

[neptronix]

More expensive products from reputable brands fall into two categories:
- Someone found the good china controller maker after dozens of attempts of buying duds, upgraded their parts, fixed defects, hopefully documented it, and sold it - basically the story of the infineon clone ( which is still being sold today, but not popular )
- It's a controller they were involved in the making and supporting of ( example: phaserunner ), or they make it themselves.

There are too many low quality part sellers whose brand names come and go, if they are clones of each other, and share something in common, great, but people buying these low quality controllers never seem to understand their controller well enough to document it here. So we've seen no real efforts by members to document these in the first place.

That being said, i don't think the forum would mind such contributions, if someone volunteered.

We are going to be discussing a knowledgebase soon, but if you're interested in putting some documentation together, get it started so we can copy it into the KB later.