Gear sensor for universal controller?

[Cyclomania]

Yes that should work

First you need to double-check there is no voltage on the brake sensor connectors. If you can't get the probes in the holes, cut two bits of (ideally non-stranded wire), strip both ends - and poke those into the holes, then you can use the multimeter to check for any voltage.

If you do see a voltage that is 3.3v or 5v (or more!) - stop and post back as that would be unexpected and you can't do what I'm suggesting, you'll likely damage the controller. You'll hopefully see 0v or maybe what's called a floating voltage which would be 1-1.5V probably. If so that's great and you can continue.

Assuming you see 0V-1.5V on the brake sensor connectors - next double check that the black wire on a brake sensor connector has continuity to a black wire on the PAS or throttle connector. It should show continuity - so that means they are all ground as you would expect.

That means the blue wire from the gear sensor needs to be connected to a red wire on the brake sensor (i.e. not ground)

Okidoki

And that means only one red wire correct? On one of those brake sensors. Both brake sensors have two wires( meaning four in total). I need to connect it to one of those four. Namely a red one from one of them, to be clear, correct?

 

[beemac]

Okidoki

And that means only one red wire correct? On one of those brake sensors. Both brake sensors have two wires( meaning four in total). I need to connect it to one of those four. Namely a red one from one of them, to be clear, correct?

Did you do the continuity check to make sure red+red and black+black are connected together on the two brake sensor connectors? If so, then yes you can pick either red since they are both connected together.

 

[Cyclomania]

Yes that should work

First you need to double-check there is no voltage on the brake sensor connectors. If you can't get the probes in the holes, cut two bits of (ideally non-stranded wire), strip both ends - and poke those into the holes, then you can use the multimeter to check for any voltage.

If you do see a voltage that is 3.3v or 5v (or more!) - stop and post back as that would be unexpected and you can't do what I'm suggesting, you'll likely damage the controller. You'll hopefully see 0v or maybe what's called a floating voltage which would be 1-1.5V probably. If so that's great and you can continue.

Assuming you see 0V-1.5V on the brake sensor connectors - next double check that the black wire on a brake sensor connector has continuity to a black wire on the PAS or throttle connector. It should show continuity - so that means they are all ground as you would expect.

That means the blue wire from the gear sensor needs to be connected to a red wire on the brake sensor (i.e. not ground)

Hmm bad news When I hooked the battery onto the bike and checked one red from the brake sensor and one black from the brake sensor I could see the voltage sometimes shooting above four

Maybe then back off from the project? Or could I still do it in another way?

 

[E-HP]

When I hooked the battery onto the bike and checked one red from the brake sensor and one black from the brake sensor I could see the voltage sometimes shooting above four

Normal. The brake sensor circuit uses a pull up resistor to pull the voltage of the sensor wire up to ~5v. When the brake cutoff switch is applied, the red and black are shorted, so the signal wire goes from 5V to ground, which the controller senses then cuts power to the motor.

 

[Cyclomania]

Normal. The brake sensor circuit uses a pull up resistor to pull the voltage of the sensor wire up to ~5v. When the brake cutoff switch is applied, the red and black are shorted, so the signal wire goes from 5V to ground, which the controller senses then cuts power to the motor.

But then I cannot do the version with the gear sensor spliced into one of the brake sensors? That could cause a short?

 

[E-HP]

Sorry, just mentioning that ~5V is normal. I'm only casually following this thread, so have no opinion on the configuration.

 

[Cyclomania]

Hmm ok. What do you think Beemac? Back off from this project? I think you wanted the volts to be between 0-1,5v for me to go along with my goal. What do you think after hearing about this voltage of close to 5? thanks

 

[Cyclomania]

If somebody cares to answer this thread please do. I do not dare to do this if it might cause a short I have no idea if this is bad idea now that I have seen 3-5v.

 

[TommyCat]

I have no idea if this is bad idea now that I have seen 3-5v.

Carefully re-read post #29, that's been "Liked" by beemac. I.E. beemac agrees that a higher voltage can be seen here.

You will get a positive voltage reading from the low brake system signal wire (RED wire from the brake pair of RED and BLACK) to ground. (The BLACK wire of the pair.)

As an example of an actual reading. My controller has a 3.1vdc brake signal reading and draws .27mA when grounded. (Thats
POINT TWO SEVEN milliamps, or .00027 amps.)

Follow the wiring example hand drawn and explained earlier, and you will have no problems. Or ask and I will draw one up.


Regards,
T.C.

 

[Cyclomania]

Carefully re-read post #29, that's been "Liked" by beemac. I.E. beemac agrees that a higher voltage can be seen here.

You will get a positive voltage reading from the low brake system signal wire (RED wire from the brake pair of RED and BLACK) to ground. (The BLACK wire of the pair.)

As an example of an actual reading. My controller has a 3.1vdc brake signal reading and draws .27mA when grounded. (Thats
POINT TWO SEVEN milliamps, or .00027 amps.)

Follow the wiring example hand drawn and explained earlier, and you will have no problems. Or ask and I will draw one up.


Regards,
T.C.

Ah thank you

I just wanted to be sure because I have drawn a lot of wires and put a lot of silicone and stuff in the drilled holes on the bike. So it would be a major headache if I shorted something now.

But then it should work right? I can go forward with the wiring of the sensor into the brake sensors? I just wanted to verify it since I did not know if I had understood it correctly.

I will go forward with the wiring.
I will hook the signal wire to one of the positive wires, from one of the brake sensors. And I will hook the ground and positive from the gear sensor to the ground and 5+-wire on the throttle(or on the pas depending on location).

Thank you for clarifying that

 

[TommyCat]

Your description of the wiring going forward will work.

Have you ever thought about a waterproof wiring make-up box if you have a good location to do so and don’t mind the look? Nice if you need to make, add, or change wiring connections… I used a couple on my build, as seen thru the link in my signature.

Thank you for clarifying that

Glad to help. I think you have been very patient waiting on beemac, me thinks he’s on an extended holiday,

 

[Cyclomania]

Have you ever thought about a waterproof wiring make-up box if you have a good location to do so and don’t mind the look? Nice if you need to make, add, or change wiring connections… I used a couple on my build, as seen thru the link in my signature.

This sounds interesting. I am not familiar with it.
Would it reduce the job of relocating, moving and putting new silicone etc? Sounds like a good idea.

 

[Cyclomania]

Your description of the wiring going forward will work.

I have earlier hooked up the speed sensor to the throttle's ground and 5v. Do you think I could hook the gear sensor to the throttle as well? Or should I connect that one to the PAS-wires, since the throttle is already "burdened" now by the extra speed sensor? Or do you think that does not matter? So I might as well hook up the gear sensor to the throttle as well?

 

[TommyCat]

This sounds interesting. I am not familiar with it.
Would it reduce the job of relocating, moving and putting new silicone etc? Sounds like a good idea.

When I build mine, I knew I would need to do something with the extra wiring cables and HIGO connectors and knew that I would add extra add-ons.
So, I used these boxes to hide the stuff and allow access in the future for changes.
Note: These are certainly NOT totally waterproof as I am totally a FAIR weather rider!
But something I thought might interest you. (Beats messing with silicone...)

I have earlier hooked up the speed sensor to the throttle's ground and 5v. Do you think I could hook the gear sensor to the throttle as well? Or should I connect that one to the PAS-wires, since the throttle is already "burdened" now by the extra speed sensor? Or do you think that does not matter?

The 5vdc positive power supplies all come from the same regulated controller voltage source.
So, it makes no difference at which 5vdc connection you wish to connect to. Choose the easiest, best routing, looks best, or the one you desire to use.

General note: The regulator typically produces less than 200mA of power. Easily enough to run the electronics that we have been talking about. But not enough to say, power a lighting system...

The same can be said of the ground connection. Use any that would benefit you, to connect to. I.E. The BLACK wire on the brake wiring cable, ETC.

Looking forward to a successful finish.

 

[Cyclomania]

When I build mine, I knew I would need to do something with the extra wiring cables and HIGO connectors and knew that I would add extra add-ons.
So, I used these boxes to hide the stuff and allow access in the future for changes.
Note: These are certainly NOT totally waterproof as I am totally a FAIR weather rider!
But something I thought might interest you. (Beats messing with silicone...)

The 5vdc positive power supplies all come from the same regulated controller voltage source.
So, it makes no difference at which 5vdc connection you wish to connect to. Choose the easiest, best routing, looks best, or the one you desire to use.

General note: The regulator typically produces less than 200mA of power. Easily enough to run the electronics that we have been talking about. But not enough to say, power a lighting system...

The same can be said of the ground connection. Use any that would benefit you, to connect to. I.E. The BLACK wire on the brake wiring cable, ETC.

Looking forward to a successful finish.

Hmm, I have now hooked up the gear sensor to the throttle and one of the two brake sensors. First picture shows it hooked up to the throttle via ground and 5v.

Second picture shows it hooked up to the red wire of one of the brake sensors.
Third and fourth picture shows how the gear sensor has been connected to the shift lever at the steer.

Only problem is that it is not working . So when I change gear it does not do anything. It does not cut power, although the brake sensor does, when activated.

I do see a blinking spark and a light in the gear sensor. So I know it has power of some sort.

Perhaps the signal wire needs to be connected to the black cable of the brake sensor instead of the red one or something? Or maybe it needs to be connected to the signal wire of the Hall sensor?

 

[TommyCat]

Perhaps the signal wire needs to be connected to the black cable of the brake sensor instead of the red one or something? Or maybe it needs to be connected to the signal wire of the Hall sensor?

Just to clarify, the BLUE wire of the gear sensor goes to the RED wire of the low brake cable.

As you say, a led light indicator would indicate a good power and ground connection.

Keep in mind that a gear sensor only hesitates the motor for a short time. Probably the time that the led is lit… less than a sec?
Would you be able to catch that without riding it?

 

[Cyclomania]

Just to clarify, the BLUE wire of the gear sensor goes to the RED wire of the low brake cable.

As you say, a led light indicator would indicate a good power and ground connection.

Keep in mind that a gear sensor only hesitates the motor for a short time. Probably the time that the led is lit… less than a sec?
Would you be able to catch that without riding it?

Hmm I am going to show you how it looks via video. I cannot see that it interrupts the shifting at all. But maybe it could be because of the thing you mention.

When I press in the brakes a lot I can see it because the throttle then stops giving power. But maybe it could be because of the very short time-span as you say.

 

[Cyclomania]

Video Unavailable

This video is unavailable.

streamable.com

Video Unavailable

This video is unavailable.

streamable.com

First video(sorry about the shaky camera) shows when I run it via PAS only, and a bit later in the video, via throttle only. I cannot see that it cuts power at all, although there is a blue lamp that blinks active every time I press the shift lever. When nothing is pushed it blinks red continously.

Perhaps it cuts power in such a split second that I don’t notice it?

But when I press throttle continuosly and shift at the same time I do not notice that it cuts power either. Not even momentarily. At least I do not recognise it. But perhaps it is during such a split moment that it can only be noticed during riding, if then?

 

[TommyCat]

although there is a blue lamp that blinks active every time I press the shift lever. When nothing is pushed it blinks red continously.

This would seem to indicate an issue if yours is like this one...

https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Sensor-Shift-Cable-Gearsensor/dp/B07LFBPQZM


So, let's do some electrical troubleshooting and see if we can find something wrong...

Have your multi meter set to read 5vdc power. Hopefully with alligator clips to keep your hands free. Write down all values obtained for easy reference.



Connect the BLACK test lead to the gear sensor's BLACK wire connection to the throttle's BLACK wire. (That tee joint.)

Connect the RED meter lead to the gear sensor's RED wire connection located at the tee to the throttle's RED wire.

Measure the voltage when static. (Nothing going on.)
When the brake lever is pulled.
When the gears are changed.
When the throttle is engaged.
When PAS is engaged.

You should have a voltage of around 5vdc that should not change much during these tests... If all good continue.

Leaving the BLACK meter test lead where it is, move the RED test lead over to the gears sensor's BLUE wire tee in with the RED low brake sensor RED wire.

Measure the voltage when static. Should be your low brake signal's voltage, as mentioned before, 3 to less than 5vdc...
With the brake levers squeezed. Voltage should drop to 0vdc. Returning to static voltage when brake lever released.
With the gear sensor activated. (BLUE Light) You must be quick and observant on this one as the meter should flicker to 0vdc for just a moment before returning to static voltage. Less than one second operation.

Brake signal voltage should not change when throttle or pas are used unless brake lever or gears are activated.

If tests measured voltages are as described, it should be working as designed. And perhaps not noticed under a no-load condition.

 

[Cyclomania]

This would seem to indicate an issue if yours is like this one...

https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Sensor-Shift-Cable-Gearsensor/dp/B07LFBPQZM

It is this one.

 

[Cyclomania]

Measure the voltage when static. Should be your low brake signal's voltage, as mentioned before, 3 to less than 5vdc...
With the brake levers squeezed. Voltage should drop to 0vdc. Returning to static voltage when brake lever released.
With the gear sensor activated. (BLUE Light) You must be quick and observant on this one as the meter should flicker to 0vdc for just a moment before returning to static voltage. Less than one second operation.

When the brakes are activated the multimeter reading drops to zero.

But when the gear sensor is pushed it only drops to about 1,5-2 volts for a split second.
Perhaps it happens during such a short span of an entire second that it does not give a reading on the multimeter ?
But I would have preferred it dropping to 0 there as well.

I can see 1,7-2 on the multimeter when I press it most of the times for the gear sensor.

Perhaps I should try and switch this one out for the other type that is more of a oval rectangle than this one that is a complete rectangle. This one:

https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Motor-Sensor-Drive-System/dp/B07BGVLW1J

 

[TommyCat]

Perhaps it happens during such a short span of an entire second that it does not give a reading on the multimeter ?

Totally agree, depends on the refresh rate of your meter. But with a half second pulse your reading sounds plausible

If tests measured voltages are as described, it should be working as designed. And perhaps not noticed under a no-load condition.

My recommendation would be to try a test ride under actual conditions first.

I've seen various timings on these gear sensors... from .2 to .7 seconds. With yours being .5. Not a lot of difference and they are all non-adjustable.

 

[Cyclomania]

Totally agree, depends on the refresh rate of your meter. But with a half second pulse your reading sounds plausible



My recommendation would be to try a test ride under actual conditions first.

I've seen various timings on these gear sensors... from .2 to .7 seconds. With yours being .5. Not a lot of difference and they are all non-adjustable.

I will test ride this week.

 

[Cyclomania]

My recommendation would be to try a test ride under actual conditions first.

It is working man Both the speed sensor and gear sensor. Only thing is I think because I perhaps picked the slightly older square version(which I had laying around) of gear sensor it cuts power for such a short period of time, that I am not sure if it actually does that much to mitigate the shifting.

Anyway I do have a linkglide chain and a robust drivetrain on this bike so now I will just go with this and perhaps change it into the more oval newer shape of gear sensor when I change the chain the next time. I am not sure if that one cuts power for a bit longer. But on another bike that I have I think it seems like that one cuts it for a slightly longer.

Anyway thanks for the help in this thread to you. You have been of much help.

 

[TommyCat]

Great news to start my day. Glad to help. Way to hang in there and job(s) well done!


Best regards,
T.C.