'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

[pablomatt]

People have only had their hands on them for about a year and there have been maybe 200 sold, it's going to be hard to find experience. At least we have someone who rode theirs a bit --^

The firmware can be updated and changed remotely but the unit would probably have to go back to Italy for most repairs RN.

Hi neptronix and bedesing..... Thanks for answer..
They are not good news....I thought there would be many users and thousands miles of testing. My other options are toseven or dm but both They are very low for offroad trails...
So i Will Waiting for more reliable products...

 

[bedesign]

Here are two important updates based on my latest experience -

Display update failure
-----------------------------------
(I hinted about this before, and it is now confirmed by me again)

If you have an Android version (in my case 13)
that results in 'Update Failed',
an interim solution before a fix is available,
is possible IN THIS ORDER -

(1). Install the App: 'nRF Connect for Mobile' and START it
a. Turn off the display
b. Enter display update mood:
by first holding down both display ↑ ↓ keys
and then while keeping both these arrow keys pressed,
turn on the display.

(2). Start the 'Lightest App'
Select "DEFUTARG"

a. A question will now pop up in the phone notification
area (if it is allowed in your settings):
"Do you want to debug the connection?"

Select "Yes and open"
Then "Tap here to start update" ... READY!


@Pilot Engineer
We need more easily understood descriptions related
to the comments below -

In the manual v. 19, display v.57
the description for:
Settings → Tuning → Max val → *Voltage*
is missing.

(the range is: 2.80 > 4.20)
I had set it to 3.80 just assuming it concerned
the lowest allowed ref. cell voltage used in
calculations.

Then I forgot about it for some days .. resulting in when
reaching a steep hill days later, all motor
assistance was gone.

I was just about to request a repair return,
then remembered that change I made -
and set it to 3.35.
Now the motor works!
A description for this is needed.

Guessing again - is that a setting for the
throttle and torque sensors?

BUT ...
Settings → Bike → *Advance → Throttle(High/Low)*
is missing in the displays' menu,
but is described in the manual?

I am supposed to have the 'Super Hero Pack'
if that matters?

 

[neptronix]

Action news update..

I looked up the manual and labeled the polarity. I cleaned & reseated EVERY plug as suggested by the bikee dudes.



It fired right up & it spins!!!

I'll take it on it's maiden voyage tomorrow

 

[raylo32]

=:O. YAY!

 

[neptronix]

Okay, rode it!

The noise level is low and reminds me of my 2014 era bbs02. I would almost call it quiet.

I'm quite underwhelmed by the power, but that's probably a function of my motor to chainring reduction ratio not being correct, I run 10T to 26T, then my output is 46T. I can outpedal the motor a little bit. I probably need a 28T or 30T.



I have all the settings maxed out, for example, motor current is set to 35A, but the drive is only drawing 17.8A peak.
I was under the impression that this was a 25A controller.

Settings

Results

It's a huge chore to get up to 30mph, and the motor/controller got up to 50C after 5 miles of pinning the throttle while pedaling on fairly flat ground from 25-30mph. My guess is that the motor matches the 1000w rating.

There was a ton of drama with the app & display; upon turning the unit back on, it went to update the motor, then failed after erasing the firmware. The app wouldn't connect, so i figured my unit bricked itself unexpectedly.

A new app download later, a bunch of resets of my phone and the drive unit, and a dozen retries to connect to the app ( it seems to fail to connect a majority of the time ), i finally get the update to finish, then i have to do a display update, reset things, etc. All in all i spent 15 minutes futzing with it because of an auto update.

The new app crashes very frequently while using it and is not reliable. I'm glad it's not necessary to have the app connected to ride the bike. I'm not a fan.



I'll contact tech support again for advice. I really want to get that 25A power.

 

[neptronix]

Okay, after hours of experimentation..
.. it turns out i was WAY off on gearing.

I ended up shifting the drive over some notches so i can drive the outer sprocket instead of the inner, because 664mm BCD sprockets seem to max out at 28T. I just love how you can reposition this thing.

I ended up with the following gearing:
Bike's front gearing: stock ratio, but a little oversized so it fits the freewheel carrier
Mid drive: 10T
Outer gear: 36T
Middle gear: 48T



Results?

The noise went way up and it almost sounds like a MAC motor on a squarewave controller but i don't find it obnoxious and turning the power level from 5 to 2 or 3 will quiet it down if you need to pass some Karens.

Much better acceleration now, and the pedal speed matches the motor, but 30mph consumes 850W on this bike... i expected more like 700W continuous or less.. a grin all axle is consuming 650w in that state @ 85% efficiency.

...it might have something to do with the 2.25" rear motorcycle tire and front tire that are both in the 10-20 psi range, i'll retest it with full pressure tomorrow because this is not a fair assessment; the moto tire really drags & you can feel it when pedaling in acoustic bike mode; and the near-flatness just makes it worse. I may pop on a regular bike tire on the rear if i don't see an improvement because there's extra speed and range on the table here.

I'm still limited to about 900w.

Top speed on 52v nominal charge with this gearing is 31mph, which ain't bad. This is all thanks to the aerodynamic advantage of the semi recumbent. Not gonna be so fast on an upright. You'll want the biggest chainring you can fit.

10 miles of beating on it a 30mph solid on flat ground in hot weather got the motor up to 73C, i'd say the motor is pretty thermally resilient but i'd like to bolt some heatsinks on so it can handle some additional power.

I think the 1000W rating is true, give or take 50 watts, since motors are rated at room temperature, and it was 85F out today.

Asking bikee how i can unlock that other 400w ( 52v x 25A = 1300w, i'm seeing a 900w limit )

 

[Warren]

Asking bikee how i can unlock that other 400w ( 52v x 25A = 1300w, i'm seeing a 900w limit )

A taller top gear? Are you seeing 25 amps draw?

 

[neptronix]

bikee boys are on vacation but suggested i set all the power levels to zero as a test.
It did nothing to change the power levels.

I did another ride at full charge & full air pressure ( 40psi rear, 30psi front ).

I can sustain 32mph on flat ground with pedaling, and climbed some ~3% grade at 26mph; not too bad



900w is ok for now for some mountain climbing torture tests. The weather is supposed to cool down in the next few days, so i plan to put it through it's paces.

 

[neptronix]

A taller top gear? Are you seeing 25 amps draw?

No matter the gear, power setting, or grade, i don't see more than 900w +/- 25W pulled.
It's like my unit is capped even though i paid for the superhero pack and race button ( ~$214 ).

 

[Zambam]

No matter the gear, power setting, or grade, i don't see more than 900w +/- 25W pulled.
It's like my unit is capped even though i paid for the superhero pack and race button ( ~$214 ).

Do the battery to motor connector and wiring feel warm or hot after trying to max it out?

 

[neptronix]

Do the battery to motor connector and wiring feel warm or hot after trying to max it out?

Not at all.

 

[Warren]

No matter the gear, power setting, or grade, i don't see more than 900w +/- 25W pulled.
It's like my unit is capped even though i paid for the superhero pack and race button ( ~$214 ).

Sure sounds like the system has the watts capped. Do you have a way of seeing the amps pulled?

 

[neptronix]

Sure sounds like the system has the watts capped. Do you have a way of seeing the amps pulled?

Yeah, the display reports amps at 17.8A max. The voltage drop @ full throttle i see lines up with what i expect for about that amperage.

The difference between a fully charged and a mostly drained battery in wattage is very small, maybe 50 watts. it should be a larger distance.

 

[Warren]

Yeah, the display reports amps at 17.8A max. The voltage drop @ full throttle i see lines up with what i expect for about that amperage.

The difference between a fully charged and a mostly drained battery in wattage is very small, maybe 50 watts. it should be a larger distance.

Seems pretty clear that it is software locked. Good luck. Hope the vendor will help. Keep us posted

 

[neptronix]

Yep.

Anyway, went on my third ride. Despite some issues remaining, the 900w power is nice.. i also notice that the motor is starting to quiet down.

It was about 77F and the motor got up to 60C after lots of full throttle hill riding .Real nice... this thing can take more power and i'm giddy to unlock it.

Overall my feeling about the kit is as such RN:



Having a good time over here.. even managed to charm walmart into letting me inside with this monstrosity of a bike.. lol!

 

[neptronix]

So hey, i've taken some friction out the driveline of the above bike and swapped the rear moto tire for a regular bike tire of the same diameter.

I'm holding 33mph on the flats at full charge now and i'm taking a 5-10% efficiency hit with the dual chainring and missing 400w of power also.

I think you could hit 40mph with this motor on a recumbent and 30mph on an upright is not out of the question with the correct gearing ( 11-12T on the motor ).

I like this motor so much i might buy another one.

 

[eMark]

I'm holding 33mph on the flats at full charge now and i'm taking a 5-10% efficiency hit with the dual chainring and missing 400w of power also.

It helps (maybe not) when you live in an area where there are no ebike speed restrictions (where you plan on riding)

I think you could hit 40mph with this motor on a recumbent and 30mph on an upright is not out of the question with the correct gearing ( 11-12T on the motor ).

Assume your reply is to those "mature" ebike motorheads at their own risk ... that hope they'll never be the cause of a serious accident (injury) to themselves or a bystander

I like this motor so much i might buy another one.

What age (e.g. at least 16/17) before parents help buy an ebike for their teenager that they know top speed is 33mph ... when the legal ebike speed limit in their state is 25-28 mph. Let's assume you're the parent.

______________________
​

Edit: Just noticed that someone that had previously given a "like" has taken it back so let's try this (if i was the parent).

What age (18) without parents chipping in to help buy a $2000-$3000 ebike for their teenage son knowing top speed is 33-35mph. That way the son is 100% responsible in case of an accident causing injury (medical expenses) to another person/party or property damage including repair cost.

 

[neptronix]

It helps (maybe not) when you live in an area where there are no ebike speed restrictions where riding

Yep, they really don't care, we also don't have bike lanes in most parts and it's a HELL of a lot safer to flow with traffic than slow it out here in the deep suburbs.

It's one of the reasons i love this area. Freedom is precious.

 

[neptronix]

Funny, if i have headphones connected via bluetooth, i cannot connect to the app. it just hangs.

Here's my statistics after 89 miles, most of them with way too much rolling resistance and chain friction.
Switching tires, increasing pressure, and lubing chains resulted in a flat ground, fully charged top speed change from 32mph to 34-35mph.
I have also not taken the time to learn to shift efficiently, but i do pedal a lot.
Me + bike weighs 325lbs combined and 100% of my riding has been hilly.

So maybe what you're looking at is a totally average case of a recumbent.



Finally got word from bikee HQ about the 900W power limit and we're trading emails & i'm doing the diagnostic procedures.

I have reset statistics after this point to start collecting data on solely the most efficient setup & learn how to ride it for best efficiency. It's possible to display efficiency in realtime, so we have a nice teaching aid.

I'm very happy that i can hold 30-31mph with vigorous pedaling on power level 4 ( 80% power ) on flat ground.

I love how i can get the heart pumping with pedaling and come home sweaty after a long ride, but not physically drained.
Getting exercise while you are in the car lane is awesome

 

[eMark]

My first thought (besides being beautiful bike) was a chain guard, but doing so would almost be a sin to cover-up such a beautiful 3-speed presentation.

Cars, trucks, scooters go past me at 35mph, so i'm no "karen". However, even with two lanes besides my narrow bike lane they will cross the yellow line 50% of the time giving them/me more than enuf space. Currently 7,257 miles on my 750W Liberty Trike with top speed of 12mph

 

[neptronix]

My first thought (besides being beautiful bike) was a chain guard, but doing so would almost be a sin to cover-up such a beautiful 3-speed presentation.

I kind of like the exposed mechanics too... but it is certainly not pants-compatible!

Cars, trucks, scooters go past me at 35mph, so i'm no "karen". However, even with two lanes besides my narrow bike lane they will cross the yellow line 50% of the time giving them/me more than enuf space. Currently 7,257 miles on my 750W Liberty Trike with top speed of 12mph

I honestly wish i didn't have to go so fast here, we only have a bike lane sometimes, and these steep canyons or mountains rarely have any shoulder.

Very unbikeable terrain. Few dare to brave it, except in packs.

 

[GoldenUnicorn1980]

Has anyone weighed one of these? Is it really 1.5kg? Thanks

 

[neptronix]

I weighed it ages ago, it was indeed 4lbs.
There are a couple parts that could be a bit lighter, but the motor unit itself is extremely weight optimized.

 

[GoldenUnicorn1980]

Thank you @neptronix. I have a gravel bike that I love to ride like a MTB, but I'm concerned a motor will ruin the fun. And sadly, a motor is almost a necessity now.

 

[neptronix]

Why is a motor a necessity?
It has 5 different power settings so you can adjust the human-motor balance.
Ebikes add fun to biking, not subtract