Milan SL velomobile conversion

I'm planning to convert a Milan SL velomobile in my possession to an EV.

It is highly efficient. For the same effort to hold 14 mph on a mountainbike on flat ground, I can hold 30 mph in this thing. I can hit 50 mph on flat ground after one and a half miles of full-effort sprinting, entirely unmotorized.

It currently weighs about 70 lbs. Front wheels are 20" Alex rims with Continental Contact Urban 20x1.25" tires, and the rear wheel is an Alex 26" with a Schwalbe Marathon 26x1.25" tire. 24/38/53T gearing up front and a 36-11T 9-speed cassette in the back.

Plans are to spot weld together and install a custom-made 21S4P 1kWh pack of Panasonic NCR18650GA 3.5AH cells and run it at 2kW peak and maybe 50A max phase current, with a Grin All-Axle rear hub motor and a Phaserunner controller. Maybe should be good for 70 mph top speed with a 5T wind or 80 mph top speed with a 3T wind. Range should exceed 200 miles at 30-35 mph with light pedaling effort, and 100 miles at 60 mph.

Pics of the vehicle:

Cool, Milans are about the top of the heap in the reverse trike velo world. Like the green/white color scheme too.

High speed with lower power input is of course all about streamlining and laminar flow. And recumbents are best suited to flat or just mildly hilly terrain. I know, I built 3 different designs many years ago. Lousy climbers, hence perfect for electric motors.

Decades ago I went to the Indy 500 race track where the Human Powered Vehicle association was holding its annual speed trials meet. Gardner Martin and his fully faired Easy Racer two wheeler were king back then. A guy from the UK, I believe Mike Burrows was there and needed a rider for his partially faired reverse trike in the hour time trial. I volunteered, and managed something like 27 or 28 miles to the Easy Racers I think mid 40's effort. Fred somebody was piloting that one...

If you don't mind me asking- how much did the Milan set you back? Did you find it used here in the US or buy new?

You've got quite a few miles on your previous trike as I recall. Any near-death events out on the roads thus far? I don't know that I'm ever going to get serious about picking up one of these and riding in heavy Pinellas county FL traffic... but I'm also never going to do the enormous amount of work to build a proper fairing. How many times have cops stopped you, if ever? They couldn't care less about regular ebikes here so that's great at least.

Barncat said:

Cool, Milans are about the top of the heap in the reverse trike velo world. Like the green/white color scheme too.

Click to expand...

It wasn't my ideal color scheme, but it does look nice. At some point after I convert the Milan to electric, I'm going to paint over the gelcoat and have a decal made to make it resembled the Jetbike from Chrono Trigger. Except I won't have a robot named Johnny to race...

Barncat said:

High speed with lower power input is of course all about streamlining and laminar flow. And recumbents are best suited to flat or just mildly hilly terrain. I know, I built 3 different designs many years ago. Lousy climbers, hence perfect for electric motors.

Click to expand...

The electric motor is definitely wanted for uphill climbs. Too many places are sealed off from access without going over roads with 40+ mph speed limits, and these roads often have 5%+ gradients and no sidewalk or shoulder with lots of impatient SUV/truck operators paying attention to their phones.

Barncat said:

If you don't mind me asking- how much did the Milan set you back? Did you find it used here in the US or buy new?

Click to expand...

I bought it used from Larry Oslund for a bit over $8k.

Barncat said:

You've got quite a few miles on your previous trike as I recall. Any near-death events out on the roads thus far? I don't know that I'm ever going to get serious about picking up one of these and riding in heavy Pinellas county FL traffic... but I'm also never going to do the enormous amount of work to build a proper fairing. How many times have cops stopped you, if ever? They couldn't care less about regular ebikes here so that's great at least.

Click to expand...

The Milan also has about 15k miles on it since I bought it in June 2021.

Lots of near-death events if you count near-misses by careless people. It's also been in two hit-and-run accidents, one of them deliberate. The cops stop me very frequently. Between the custom build velo and the Milan, I've been stopped 34 times since March 2018. Sometimes, the cops had their guns drawn and pointed at me for no reason.

Here's calculated performance of my proposed setup with a 5T All-Axle, limited to 50A phase current and 2kW:

Motor Simulator - Tools

Range at 35 mph pedaling lightly:

Motor Simulator - Tools

Range at 60 mph pedaling moderately:

Motor Simulator - Tools

Ya gotta be pretty hardcore to drop 8 grand on a trike... And you've had a very high number of sketchy traffic and cop events. Unfortunate. As you are acutely aware, these vehicles occupy a very gray area in terms of road use and safety. Some a-holes would just as soon run you over.

There is essentially zero motorist/cultural awareness of what a velomobile is, and the incredible energy efficiency they are capable of. E-powered or E-assisted fully faired reverse trikes would make outstanding 3 season personal transportation, but we're generations away from acceptance of that, which is why I abandoned that idea 30 years ago. Hang in there.

Barncat said:

There is essentially zero motorist/cultural awareness of what a velomobile is, and the incredible energy efficiency they are capable of. E-powered or E-assisted fully faired reverse trikes would make outstanding 3 season personal transportation, but we're generations away from acceptance of that, which is why I abandoned that idea 30 years ago. Hang in there.

Click to expand...

I've been using mine as dailies in all 4 seasons, as car substitutes.

I built and started riding my first trike in 2016. It was a Thunderbolt purchased for $500 in non-ridable shape in 2015 and restored. I did not get to finish it as intended. It was run over by a truck weeks after getting it ridable while chained up in a parking lot of a restaurant, and the body shell I was working on got destroyed during an attempted home break-in and ensuing fight after one of my roommates was thrown on the plug/mold with fiberglass layed on it by one of the burglars. I got about 7 months out of that trike before the front of the frame completely failed as a result of having been run over. I got maybe 800 miles out of it after spending over $1,000 total.

I built the KMX in the kitchen of an apartment in 2016. It is approaching 80k miles on the original frame. It was turned into a front-suspension velomobile in late 2017, received an upgraded body shell in 2020, and finally converted to electric in late 2020. It has been upgraded to DOT rims/tires, more power, hydraulic disc brakes, and full suspension since its electric conversion. I'm set on eventually getting that thing to hit over 100 mph and converted to AWD(for both performance and snow riding) and 20+ kW so it can accelerate like a Dodge Charger Hellcat. I promise to commit all sorts of hooliganism, hooning, and general jackassery with it.

The Milan will be there as a second vehicle. I use it as one, even unmotorized. It doesn't need to be particularly fast, but it will be fast enough, and extremely efficient.

I also have a mountainbike conversion in case both are down.

I might build one more ebike after all these. Perhaps an enclosed 3-wheeled adult delta trike made for about 20 mph, as I need something that can substitute for a pickup truck and to haul stuff. Thinking of making something akin to Amberwolf's build for this application.

Yo TC.... Does that rig have suspension? I'm guessing not.

Papa said:

Yo TC.... Does that rig have suspension? I'm guessing not.

Click to expand...

The Milan has full suspension. McPherson struts up front, a 2 shocks in the back.

Reason I ask, was I noticed the skinny tires you're using... on the street no less. Have you given much thought to slightly wider rubber.

Roads here are infamous chip-seal. That said, I'm closely eyeing Big Apples or their Super Motor 2.40's to help absorb the harsh vibrations. The difference in rolling resistance is negligible, if you chose carefully.

Papa said:

Reason I ask, was I noticed the skinny tires you're using... on the street no less. Have you given much thought to slightly wider rubber.

Roads here are infamous chip-seal. That said, I'm closely eyeing Big Apples or their Super Motor 2.40's to help absorb the harsh vibrations. The difference in rolling resistance is negligible, if you chose carefully.

Click to expand...

Wider rubber won't fit in the wheel wells. With the front wheels, wider rubber reduces my possible turning radius with rubbing, and a wider rear tire will rub inside the wheel well.

I have the widest that will fit.

I ride on poorly-maintained roads littered with debris. My tires are fairly puncture-resistant. I get a puncture once every 4,000 miles on average. The tires chosen are intended for ebike use, but the thing is unmotorized at this time.

Lack of sufficient ground clearance is a worse problem than the narrow tires. I find myself having to do carbon fiber repair of the underside once a year.

The Toecutter said:

Perhaps an enclosed 3-wheeled adult delta trike made for about 20 mph, as I need something that can substitute for a pickup truck and to haul stuff. Thinking of making something akin to Amberwolf's build for this application.

Click to expand...

There are two versions of the SBC that were open-bed "trucks" that might be adaptable:

AW, why such a humongous trailer hitch? I use air hose couplings - most of mine are used, but you can snag them at HF pretty inexpensively. Just use a short (maybe 2-3") length of hydraulic hose between the trike's frame, and the male coupler. IIRC, Bike Friday, ages ago, used a similar trailer hitch setup.

I used the automotive ball hitch because I knew they would not fail under any loading situation I would be able to haul with CrazyBike2, and I could attach "any" trailer I might run across that needed hauling (realistically would only have been the one my friend BIll had, that he pulled behind his Kawasaki). The first one I used because i already had the ball, found on the side of the road, and harborfright had a clearance trailer-end hitch for a few bucks....
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/amberwolfs-flatbed-kennel-trailer-mk-iii.63781/


Then I used it on SB Cruiser when I built that because I was already using it for my trailer for CB2....

By then I'd already learned about pintle hitches and such that could probably do what I wanted even better, but I already had the hardware.

Will air hose couplings do this? If so, I could use them...if not, no. I rarely but sometimes need to haul several hundred pounds on the trailer (and would like the option to haul twice as much as either of those loads, up to at least half a ton, without any risk of hitch failures...I expect my frame work / design would probably fail before the hitch, and I know that none of my existing trailers could physically handle that much weight).

Just thinkin' in terms of weight reduction. As you already know, reducing vehicle weight is equivalent to increasing HP. Will discuss further in a more appropriate thread.

Got a Grin All-axle 5T rear on the way for the Milan. I have to build the 21S pack for it. I decided on the 5T because wiring is my bottleneck with a faster wind. Since there's only going to be one motor powering it, I opted for electrical reliability over an extra 10 mph top end(which I'm almost never going to use anyway). With stock Phaserunner wiring and the L10 connector, I could in theory do 45A continuous, so I want that 45A to make as much torque as possible, and it should still be sufficiently low so as not to damage my irreplaceable dual-sided rear swingarm. At 75.6V, the Milan should still be good for 70 mph or so, which is plenty. That motor will never overheat when limited to 2kW with Statorade in it, and probably won't even use 2kW at top speed on flat ground. If I decide I want more speed, I'll go with a higher voltage controller/battery at a later date.

This thing is going to be cool...

Grin is sending me a spacer to keep the cassette in place. They've had an issue with the torque sensor coming loose and small sprocket getting pressed against the dropout.

It's a good thing I hadn't got around to installing this motor yet, or I'd have been pissed. Getting the motor properly installed and torque arms set up is going to be upwards of a 10 hour ordeal on this thing because it is extremely difficult to fit hands and tools inside the rear wheel opening to do anything. I'm planning to buy citronella candles and incense just to keep the mosquitos away while I work, just for the occasion so that I don't have to take my hands out to swat at them.

A rear tire/tube change takes an hour and a half on this bike. That's without dealing with torquearms. Getting the motor in is going to be the biggest pain in the ass regarding converting this thing. But damn is it going to be worth it.

I ended up having front derailleur issues with the front derailleur mounting point moving inward from a fatigued aluminum stem. The derailleur cable tension caused the mount for the derailleur it to be pulled inward by bending the stem, changing the low and high points of the shifting as well as snagging the shift cable on a sharp piece of metal that is part of the derailleur when trying to get into the big ring. I bent the stem of the mounting piece back into place had a friend weld an aluminum reinforcement bracket to keep the stem from ever bending again.

I have working front shifting again for all three front sprockets, but it was a massive 8 hour ordeal to fix.

Installing the motor is going to be a worse ordeal, mainly getting the torquearms on. I don't want to have to ever mess with it again once it is in. So much so it's getting a brand new tire and tube on it with a liner, even though the tire on it has lots of life left in it.

The Toecutter said:

Milan SL velomobile

Click to expand...

Very much looking forward to reading about this conversion project. I've always fancied a velomobile. I've often wondered about making a custom velo body for an ICE Recumbent trike, but it'd be heavy if I constructed it.

What's cabin noise like at say 30mph? Can you hear traffic? How much louder is it like to be post-conversion at...

The Toecutter said:

70 mph top speed with a 5T wind or 80 mph top speed

Click to expand...

...and will velcro be strong enough to keep this front panel on?

The Toecutter said:

I've been stopped 34 times since March 2018. Sometimes, the cops had their guns drawn and pointed at me for no reason.

Click to expand...

Stupid cops. Was it mistaken for some sort of road going cruise missile?

Guerney said:

Very much looking forward to reading about this conversion project. I've always fancied a velomobile. I've often wondered about making a custom velo body for an ICE Recumbent trike, but it'd be heavy if I constructed it.

What's cabin noise like at say 30mph? Can you hear traffic? How much louder is it like to be post-conversion at...

Click to expand...

At 30 mph, wind noise is almost non-existent. My pedaling and the chain running through the pedal drive system is most of the noise. I can generally hear traffic just fine.

At 70 mph I expect it to be loud. Wind noise gets bad around 45 mph. I've been down hill at over 70 mph for brief periods.

...and will velcro be strong enough to keep this front panel on?

Click to expand...

Using elastic strings to hold it in place. This has worked well, although strong side winds have tried to rip the hood open before.

I got the motor set up for the Milan:





It will go in once I work some rear suspension issues out.

amberwolf said:

...
Will air hose couplings do this? If so, I could use them...if not, no. I rarely but sometimes need to haul several hundred pounds on the trailer (and would like the option to haul twice as much as either of those loads, up to at least half a ton, without any risk of hitch failures...I expect my frame work / design would probably fail before the hitch, and I know that none of my existing trailers could physically handle that much weight).
...

Click to expand...

Hydraulic couplings certainly would, the smaller sizes would usually be more than 1cm2 cross section area behind the seals and rated for 300bar or more, ie. 300kg/cm2 and the hose braids are very strong and swagged pretty much the same as wire rope ends. Compressed air couplings obviously wouldn't be rated that high but I've little doubt they'd be up to the job, whenever I've seen them misused for hydraulics it's always the seals that have failed, never the retention. Neat idea

Motor is installed. It was a 6 hour ordeal. Still trying to finish the torque arm. Reaching in to tighten anything down is extremely uncomfortable and time consuming. I hope I never have to change a rear tire out on the side of the road, because if I do, I'm screwed. I'll post pics later. I hope to have it ready to next weekend.

As promised:

Torquearm is securely mounted. I had to get c-clips that would fit. If I have to change a rear tire, the trick will be to loosen the c-clips enough to slide them off the mounting plate, then disconnect all motor wiring and re-orient the torquearm so that the wheel can slide out with one hand holding the rear derailleur out of the way.