09 bottle battery

[riba2233]

Just checked mine, both BE and PF don't have Panasonic written on them. Also, cells from BMS look authentic.

 

[greg00]

That's good news indeed. Thanks for sharing. Are you sure they are genuine though? I can't think why Panasonic would leave their name off them.It seems rather unconventional.

I got them from nkon.nl so I think they should be genuine. I also have the Panasonic NCR18650B - no Panasonic marks either.

 

[Xorin]

The one i have is the 48v Panasonic one, have done a full discharge LVC at 42 and it gave 560wh. measured by charging it with a wattmeter.
I use the build in controller, it maxes at about 850w, but yes you can with LDC display set it to 50% max Watt and speed regulated too.
Voltage drop at max Watts is about 2.2v.
Tried a 25 max kph and 500w, worked perfect, but boring =) max speed unlimited is 54kph on a fresh charge, and with me riding it with pedals assist,able to do 50 (400w use).
The only thing a haven't gotten to work yet is the Power levels (Gears) control for handlebar (throttle) Option C4 value 04.
And Value 01 works but is NOT a 6kph limit, on mine its 12kph somehow. Could be because I use a 36v 260 ( geared) rpm motor, boosted to 48v.
So Kv is almost exact 1v = 1kph.
My OLD pack (36v) cant even hold 300wh ( should have been 360wh, says so on label) , with no name cells, thats why i got the Panasonic one.
Btw checked the foam pads inside, its all good.

 

[thetimmy]

I have the SSR SandViper http://electricbikereview.com/ssr-motorsports/sand-viper/and it uses the same 36V battery that you have. Can you provide me with any technical details on the BMS system it uses? I'm also interested to know if the 36V battery uses the same BMS as the 48V. Also how many batteries are in the 48V version? By my math the 48V would need 52 batteries but I didn't see room for more than 50 so I was curious to how that worked. Thank you for sharing the workings of your battery with everyone, I would have opened mine but the battery still has 22 months of warranty left and I couldn't break that sticker.

 

[riba2233]

Here are the details for the bms:

https://bmsbattery.com/bmspcm/714-10s-13s-20a-lithium-bms-for-bottle-battery-09-bms-pcm.html

36V battery uses 10 cells in series, 5 in parallel; 48V uses 13 cells in series, 4 in parallel. That is 52 cells, and there is space for that, as you can see on pictures on first page.

 

[d8veh]

The case is made by one company, but there are a lot of different companies assembling the cells to it. Each will use their own method and parts, so what's in one battery isn't necessarily the same as another. You can see that the BMS in the link above is totally different to the one below; however, they all work the same.

This advert shows how 52 cells fit:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/Newest-36v-10-4ah-bottle-battery-pack-LiNiCoMn-for-electric-bike-e-bike-lithium-battery-electric/1436520957.html

 

[oobagooba]

Any way to raise the discharge current to 25a on one of these?

 

[thetimmy]

Here are the details for the bms:

https://bmsbattery.com/bmspcm/714-10s-13s-20a-lithium-bms-for-bottle-battery-09-bms-pcm.html

36V battery uses 10 cells in series, 5 in parallel; 48V uses 13 cells in series, 4 in parallel. That is 52 cells, and there is space for that, as you can see on pictures on first page.

I impressed that a single BMS can be used for both the 48V and 36V?

Would I be able to use this soldering ironhttp://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ to assemble the cells or would I need more specialized equipment?

 

[riba2233]

Any way to raise the discharge current to 25a on one of these?

What do you mean? Cells are rated at like 30-40A, bms is rated 20A, but won't have problems with 25A. Connectors might pose a bottleneck, but should be fine.

Here are the details for the bms:

https://bmsbattery.com/bmspcm/714-10s-13s-20a-lithium-bms-for-bottle-battery-09-bms-pcm.html

36V battery uses 10 cells in series, 5 in parallel; 48V uses 13 cells in series, 4 in parallel. That is 52 cells, and there is space for that, as you can see on pictures on first page.

I impressed that a single BMS can be used for both the 48V and 36V?

Would I be able to use this soldering ironhttp://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ to assemble the cells or would I need more specialized equipment?

Well it is a same bms, but you still have to choose whether you want 10S or 13S version, there is a little bit of difference in setup. But it's basically the same unit.

You shouldn't solder cells, you should spot weld them. Look at this topic:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68005

 

[thetimmy]

Can the 13S (42V) BMS controller be purchased separately? This would allow me to convert a 36V battery case to 48V in the future.

 

[riba2233]

Sure, there are many BMS's out there to buy...

 

[thetimmy]

Sure, there are many BMS's out there to buy...

This battery has several unique features like the 5V USB output, I wasn't sure if that case required a unique BMS that would both fit in the case without modification.

 

[thetimmy]

-duplicate post-

 

[riba2233]

That's right, but you are not obliged to use them.

 

[d8veh]

The USB is a separare module. I don't know if it comes with the case or if you have to buy it separately. It only requires a battery voltage supply from the BMS output.

 

[riba2233]

I don't think so, I worked with few boxes and each had usb connector, without active electronics, just plug with 4 pins, so BMS must provide 5V.

 

[d8veh]

You're right concerning the BMSBattery version. Now that I think about it, I remember that Cwah's USB module was on the BMS pcb. Recently, I had to replace the charging socket in one of my batteries. For that, I had to remove the USB connector to get at it. I can remember a pcb attached to the USB connector that screwed to the case and was joined to the main BMS pcb by two wires, but I can't remember what was on the pcb.

There's some photos of Cwah's BMS here:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/new-bottle-battery-under-the-rain-is-dead.19920/

There's other versions of the battery with different BMSs, so they might not all be the same.

 

[riba2233]

. Recently, I had to replace the charging socket in one of my batteries. For that, I had to remove the USB connector to get at it.

That is something different, maybe on older versions.

but I can't remember what was on the pcb.

In my case(s), nothing, just pcb that holds usb plug, and one 4 pin plug which connects to the bms.

 

[thetimmy]

You're right concerning the BMSBattery version. Now that I think about it, I remember that Cwah's USB module was on the BMS pcb. Recently, I had to replace the charging socket in one of my batteries. For that, I had to remove the USB connector to get at it. I can remember a pcb attached to the USB connector that screwed to the case and was joined to the main BMS pcb by two wires, but I can't remember what was on the pcb.

There's some photos of Cwah's BMS here:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/new-bottle-battery-under-the-rain-is-dead.19920/

There's other versions of the battery with different BMSs, so they might not all be the same.

What I'm looking for is what 48V BMS systems will fit into the bottle case shown here, http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2015-47-JKHT.457DR, because I'm fairly certain that this case comes with a 36V BMS, so I'm going to need to swap it out with a 48V BMS.
Any assistance in identifying a 48V BMS that fits into this battery would be very helpful.

 

[riba2233]

This one is original and supports switch and usb port:


https://bmsbattery.com/bmspcm/714-10s-13s-20a-lithium-bms-for-bottle-battery-09-bms-pcm.html


This one is smaller but doesn't support mentioned features:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Protection-BMS-PCB-Board-w-Balance-for-13-Packs-48V-Li-ion-Cell-max-25A-/251497839451?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8e707b5b

 

[greg00]

I've been using the 48V Panasonic version from BMSB for a few weeks and I like it.
With the BBS02 500W I can reach 50km with light hills (total 600m elevation) - with casual pedaling and open throttle mostly.

But I have some trouble with the USB port. It seem's to work on other devices but the iPhone5.
I haven't checked the Volt output of the USB port since the iphone is kinda picky.
Can someone check the Volt output and if it would charge their iphone?

Thanks

 

[d8veh]

Iphone needs a special cable or charger. Normal USB chargers use two wires, but the iphone uses three. There's a hack you can do to add a resistor to a normal USB lead to convert it. Try Googling it.

 

[riba2233]

I've been using the 48V Panasonic version from BMSB for a few weeks and I like it.
With the BBS02 500W I can reach 50km with light hills (total 600m elevation) - with casual pedaling and open throttle mostly.

But I have some trouble with the USB port. It seem's to work on other devices but the iPhone5.
I haven't checked the Volt output of the USB port since the iphone is kinda picky.
Can someone check the Volt output and if it would charge their iphone?

Thanks

They actually thought of it. There are resistors on bms board that will provide voltage level for iphone, but that line isn't connected (only usb 5v+ and gnd are connected). You need to connect it, two wires, pads marked data+ and data- on bms board, to matching pads on usb board.

 

[greg00]

I'm using a genuine cable.
It's strange because I use all sorts of Powerbank from cheap AA-batteries to 18650-adapter for charging the iphone and never had that issue.
But it's good to know that the case is already prepared for this.
I guess you tried that already and it's working without any side-effects.
Just wondering why they didn't do the connection in the first place since everything is already there?

 

[riba2233]

Because it takes 20 seconds to do that, and it's not mandatory for usb to work. I haven't tried it personally, but I have that bms and that case and after seeing it, it makes sense.