10 awg phase : is it really worth it?

[fractal]

I'm about to upgrade the phase wires on my HT to run 24s. I know there are some members who managed to put 10awg. I know this is very hard to do, but is it really worth it? If I put very short 12awg and 8awg at the exit of the axle, will this be good for 24s? I took a very close look at the axle, grinding the inside is an absolute must to do 10awg!!! I want a high performance bike, but I dont want to break any records ) Thanks for your opinions as always!!!

 

[Doctorbass]

I'm about to upgrade the phase wires on my HT to run 24s. I know there are some members who managed to put 10awg. I know this is very hard to do, but is it really worth it? If I put very short 12awg and 8awg at the exit of the axle, will this be good for 24s? I took a very close look at the axle, grinding the inside is an absolute must to do 10awg!!! I want a high performance bike, but I dont want to break any records ) Thanks for your opinions as always!!!

12 gauge silicon wire can be ok.. but 10AWG wire for phase wire upgrade is like having 20Ah A123 cells as battery... it's the best you can have!!

Use grease on the silicon wire when puting back the side cover to let the wire to not grip to the bearing

Turnigy AWG 10 wire are the best!! because of their ULTRA high flexibility and temperature endurance

I have upgraded all my X5 with them


Doc

 

[fractal]

Thanks Doc, i'll try that!

 

[John in CR]

I'm about to upgrade the phase wires on my HT to run 24s. I know there are some members who managed to put 10awg. I know this is very hard to do, but is it really worth it? If I put very short 12awg and 8awg at the exit of the axle, will this be good for 24s? I took a very close look at the axle, grinding the inside is an absolute must to do 10awg!!! I want a high performance bike, but I dont want to break any records ) Thanks for your opinions as always!!!

12 gauge silicon wire can be ok.. but 10AWG wire for phase wire upgrade is like having 20Ah A123 cells as battery... it's the best you can have!!

Use grease on the silicon wire when puting back the side cover to let the wire to not grip to the bearing

Turnigy AWG 10 wire are the best!! because of their ULTRA high flexibility and temperature endurance

I have upgraded all my X5 with them


Doc

Doc,
You're using the word "best" awfully loosely. I just upgraded my phase wires with 10 strands of 18ga wire on each phase. That's 8ga baby, and has a far higher temperature limit. If I needed flexibility for rear suspension use, then I'd just splice in a big gauge flexible wire for that span. Otherwise I find stiff wire to be better.

 

[Doctorbass]

I'm about to upgrade the phase wires on my HT to run 24s. I know there are some members who managed to put 10awg. I know this is very hard to do, but is it really worth it? If I put very short 12awg and 8awg at the exit of the axle, will this be good for 24s? I took a very close look at the axle, grinding the inside is an absolute must to do 10awg!!! I want a high performance bike, but I dont want to break any records ) Thanks for your opinions as always!!!

12 gauge silicon wire can be ok.. but 10AWG wire for phase wire upgrade is like having 20Ah A123 cells as battery... it's the best you can have!!

Use grease on the silicon wire when puting back the side cover to let the wire to not grip to the bearing

Turnigy AWG 10 wire are the best!! because of their ULTRA high flexibility and temperature endurance

I have upgraded all my X5 with them


Doc

Doc,
You're using the word "best" awfully loosely. I just upgraded my phase wires with 10 strands of 18ga wire on each phase. That's 8ga baby, and has a far higher temperature limit. If I needed flexibility for rear suspension use, then I'd just splice in a big gauge flexible wire for that span. Otherwise I find stiff wire to be better.

John... Flexible cable usually have better thermal insulation... stiff wire insulation tend to crack... The tricky part is where they pass under the bearing and the sharp edge of the axle... turnigy wire are the best wire i found for upgrading phase wire.

 

[neptronix]

Big fan of copper wire from the automobile parts store myself, lol.

Not flexible, but i don't need my phase wires to be flexible.. they're zip tied to the frame and should not vibrate or move.. but i also don't have dual suspension, so hey.

 

[John in CR]

12 gauge silicon wire can be ok.. but 10AWG wire for phase wire upgrade is like having 20Ah A123 cells as battery... it's the best you can have!!

Use grease on the silicon wire when puting back the side cover to let the wire to not grip to the bearing

Turnigy AWG 10 wire are the best!! because of their ULTRA high flexibility and temperature endurance

I have upgraded all my X5 with them


Doc

Doc,
You're using the word "best" awfully loosely. I just upgraded my phase wires with 10 strands of 18ga wire on each phase. That's 8ga baby, and has a far higher temperature limit. If I needed flexibility for rear suspension use, then I'd just splice in a big gauge flexible wire for that span. Otherwise I find stiff wire to be better.

John... Flexible cable usually have better thermal insulation... stiff wire insulation tend to crack... The tricky part is where they pass under the bearing and the sharp edge of the axle... turnigy wire are the best wire i found for upgrading phase wire.

Sorry, I left out a key point. It was magnet wire that I used, so of course the insulation won't crack. Since the 3 phases need no separate plastic insulation, it's much easier to get more copper through the axle. The protection through the axle is still really good with the enamel on the magnet wire, then tape to make one tight bundle of all 3 phases, and then a double layer of quality shrink wrap on the outside.

Also, to avoid the risk to the wire, I put the bearing on the axle first, and then put the wire through. I made a simple tool to support the outer race of the bearing, so I can seat the bearing properly in the cover with the wire in place, which permits a far more copper without risk of scraping the insulation during final assembly.

Is it worth it? I believe the effort pays good dividends with my motors, since the windings themselves consist of right at 8ga worth of magnet wire, and I immediately got a cooler motor despite running higher power than before with the stock approximately 11ga wire from the factory.

John

 

[dogman dan]

Back to the original question, I ran 26s at 40 amps in the Death race for about 30 min before the hub windings reached 451F and the carbon based string inside flamed. The wiring never melted though, Stock wires from the windings to 6" from the axle, then 12 guage to the controller from there. The limiting factor on that particular 9c 2807 motor was far from being the phase wire guage.

More robust motors, such as John is running likey do need the upgrade all the way to the windings. Perhaps the discussion needs to specify wattage anyway. I was pulling about 4000 w. I wasn't worried about losses, provided the wires and connectors stayed cool enough, and they did.

 

[Beavinator]

I just did my motor fractal and I think 12ga is the biggest you will fit. Especially if you want to run a temp sensor and halls. Also if you use that Turnigy wire I feel it is absolutely necessary that you enclose all the phase wires in one big shrink tubing. I found that the insulation on the Turnigy wire is so soft that when your sliding the side cover on it tends to get cut by the axle. When I rebuilt my 5304 I never used shrink tubing and the soft insulation got cut by the side of the axle slot. Then when I tried the motor I blew my 18fet controller. The axle on the Hx series of motors is so much smaller than a x5 axle so I think 12ga would be your best bet.

 

[AussieJester]

I run 8GA for all wiring, combined with solid copper bus bars to parallel/series my lipo, it has reduced my voltage ripple immensely over the 10GA I used to use for everything... Jm2cw

KiM

 

[fractal]

Guys, I will try this, but I doubt it will work : I got some 10awg wire and I took the insulation off and put PTFE heat shrink instead to make the overall diameter smaller. It is rated at 260 deg c. It sure is hard to shrink!!! A heat gun is not enough, an oven at 500 deg c is not enough either. I used a torch to shrink it . Anyways, the cool thing about it is that it is extremely robust, the edges of the axle will never puncture it. The bad thing is its not very flexible. So I will try this next week and share my results (I doubt that it will work but i'll give it a try) Check out the picture :

 

[dogman dan]

And the good heat shrink comes from where?

Still howling for an improved design, big bearing, big diameter axle, huge wiring hole with no sharp edges, lots of room for a second hole if you want it. Made me just about puke to see clyte do a new motor design with the same old problems with the wire exit.

 

[fractal]

And the good heat shrink comes from where?

Still howling for an improved design, big bearing, big diameter axle, huge wiring hole with no sharp edges, lots of room for a second hole if you want it. Made me just about puke to see clyte do a new motor design with the same old problems with the wire exit.

Dogman, this is where I got the PTFE heat shrink http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heatshrinktubing/teflon.htm#B