19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[Rix]

Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

Can someone confirm the actual width of these tires? I'm seeing 2.95" and 3.3" in this thread for the width of the Shinko 19x2.75" tires. Preferably pictures with calipers at the thickest part of the tire!

My 2.75X19 SR241 on my 19x1.4 rim mic'd out at 79mm or about 3.1 inches or so. Keep in mind that a different width rim will cause the tire to spread which is why Zombies measured out 1/4 inch wider with a 2.14 wide rim vs my 1.4" wide rim. As you can tell by the pic, there is more than enough clearance on 888 forks.

 

[ridethelightning]

just love those 241's!

awesome pic.

 

[Rix]

just love those 241's!

awesome pic.

Thanks man, yah those 241 just plain work good for me where I live and ride.

Rick

 

[GiantEV]

Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

Can someone confirm the actual width of these tires? I'm seeing 2.95" and 3.3" in this thread for the width of the Shinko 19x2.75" tires. Preferably pictures with calipers at the thickest part of the tire!

My 2.75X19 SR241 on my 19x1.4 rim mic'd out at 79mm or about 3.1 inches or so. Keep in mind that a different width rim will cause the tire to spread which is why Zombies measured out 1/4 inch wider with a 2.14 wide rim vs my 1.4" wide rim. As you can tell by the pic, there is more than enough clearance on 888 forks.

Thanks, Rix. It's good to know that a 1.4 rim will work on the SR241. I'll probably use the 19x1.4 with the CST 19x2.0 2plys until I switch over to my wider frame. My hardtail rear is the problem with the narrow width. My front forks are a little wider, but I'm looking to upgrade to either the 888 or the forks Zombiess is selling with the dual brakes.

 

[Rix]

I would try the Zombies fork, its only a kg more than the Zocks and looks like its a sweet set up. The extra KG on an Ebike isn't a big deal like it would be on MTB. IMO.

 

[Obiwan007]

Does anybody know what the spacing between the stantions is for the zombie DNM forks?

 

[Rix]

Does anybody know what the spacing between the stantions is for the zombie DNM forks?

At the front axle drop outs they are 110mm, but I don't what he space is between the tubes and the tripple clamps. More than wide enough for 2.75 x 19 SR244 which Zombies measured at 3.3 inhces wide on his warp 9 rims.

Rick

 

[GiantEV]

According to the diagram on Greyborgusa http://greyborgusa.com/dnm-dual-disc-brake-fork/, the spacing is 97.5mm (3.83") where the tire is, but on a small section that the tire would have to get past it is 89.5mm (3.52").

 

[Obiwan007]

I would be perfectly happy if I could get a 3.5" tire in there. Doesn't matter anyway since I won't be able to afford something like that until my next project...but a guy can dream.

 

[2007blueprius]

so what is the verdict on the spokes? I got my motor in, I am waiting for the rim to be delivered, I ordered a 21x1.6, once I got them in hand I can get some measurements and figure the lengths, but question is what is the proper way to go about it?

it had been mentione custom nipples, well in all honesty, to wait till there is enough demand and have them shipped from Taipei, I am not that patient, I am still a bit unclear on the Holmes setup, a few threads back it mentioned those are special nipples? as in no washers needed? or did I misunderstand?

also beeing that likely the orientation wont match, is it best to use those washers anyhow? I am thinking they could kindof compensate for the orientation, is some way in a similar fashion as the liear pull washers do on the break pads.

I was reading through some posts and one wheel I came across showed some significant dielectric corosion after some time, so that makes me wonder maybe the material ought to be considered.

anyway some input would be greately apreciated, I kindof filled in the blanks Holmes is a member, maybe you can elaborate? granted I apreciate not talking your product up and down the street but I am kindof geeky like that, I like the 11/12 spokes, just a bit unclear what to do about the nipples situation.


George

 

[2007blueprius]

Thanks, Rix. It's good to know that a 1.4 rim will work on the SR241. I'll probably use the 19x1.4 with the CST 19x2.0 2plys until I switch over to my wider frame. My hardtail rear is the problem with the narrow width. My front forks are a little wider, but I'm looking to upgrade to either the 888 or the forks Zombiess is selling with the dual brakes.

now what is the CST? is that a shinko tire? I am still shopping for a 21, I was pretty set on the https://www.denniskirk.com/front-mt90-scorpion-at-80-90s-21-tire.p542079.prd/542079.sku, I wrote an email and they confirmed it is indeed 6.5 lbs or so they say, supposedly 3 ply, havent seen any 2 ply not in the kindof roadlike pattern that I am looking for

 

[GCinDC]

I am still a bit unclear on the Holmes setup, a few threads back it mentioned those are special nipples? as in no washers needed? or did I misunderstand?

JRH has custom nipples that fit MOPED wheels w/o washers. but to fit MOTORCYCLE wheels, you'll need washers. unfortunately, i've heard from JRH that he no longer sells the washers, but will make them when nec for wheels they build.

also beeing that likely the orientation wont match, is it best to use those washers anyhow?

my opinion is they they would help resolve any difference in orientation.

I was reading through some posts and one wheel I came across showed some significant dielectric corosion after some time, so that makes me wonder maybe the material ought to be considered.

i recently posted pics of an MC wheel that showed evidence of lots of galvanic corrosion where the steel(?) washers were in contact with the aluminum wheel, and you can even see it around the steel(?) valve stem hole:

i doubt the new JRH washers (stainless steel?) will cause as much galvanic corrosion as the ones above, but certain metals will always cause galvanic corrosion, especially when exposed to as much salt as that wheel. my conclusion is the best way to prevent this in future is to spray the parts BEFORE installation with anti corrosive coatings, such as boeshield T-9.

i've had a few aluminum rims get destroyed by galvanic corrosion just where they were in contact with normal nipples (nickel plated brass? i really don't know). left untreated, the corrosion will continue until it gets like this (and beyond?):

I am waiting for the rim to be delivered, I ordered a 21x1.6

I understand your 21x1.6 is on the way, and i don't know the specifics of your build, but i STRONGLY recommend you reconsider a smaller wheel. most i know who've built such large wheels regretted it and ended up using smaller wheels on their next builds. hub motors get too hot, even cromotors, when used in such large wheels, and most i believe recommend 17 or 18" wheels, though i stubbornly couldn't go that small (yet). considering the amount of time you are about to put in to measure, buy spokes and build the wheel, it's not too late to get a smaller wheel! and you'll enjoy the higher torque.

 

[Rix]

I am still a bit unclear on the Holmes setup, a few threads back it mentioned those are special nipples? as in no washers needed? or did I misunderstand?

JRH has custom nipples that fit MOPED wheels w/o washers. but to fit MOTORCYCLE wheels, you'll need washers. unfortunately, i've heard from JRH that he no longer sells the washers, but will make them when nec for wheels they build.

also beeing that likely the orientation wont match, is it best to use those washers anyhow?

my opinion is they they would help resolve any difference in orientation.

I was reading through some posts and one wheel I came across showed some significant dielectric corosion after some time, so that makes me wonder maybe the material ought to be considered.

i recently posted pics of an MC wheel that showed evidence of lots of galvanic corrosion where the steel(?) washers were in contact with the aluminum wheel, and you can even see it around the steel(?) valve stem hole:

i doubt the new JRH washers (stainless steel?) will cause as much galvanic corrosion as the ones above, but certain metals will always cause galvanic corrosion, especially when exposed to as much salt as that wheel. my conclusion is the best way to prevent this in future is to spray the parts BEFORE installation with anti corrosive coatings, such as boeshield T-9.

i've had a few aluminum rims get destroyed by galvanic corrosion just where they were in contact with normal nipples (nickel plated brass? i really don't know). left untreated, the corrosion will continue until it gets like this (and beyond?):

I am waiting for the rim to be delivered, I ordered a 21x1.6

I understand your 21x1.6 is on the way, and i don't know the specifics of your build, but i STRONGLY recommend you reconsider a smaller wheel. most i know who've built such large wheels regretted it and ended up using smaller wheels on their next builds. hub motors get too hot, even cromotors, when used in such large wheels, and most i believe recommend 17 or 18" wheels, though i stubbornly couldn't go that small (yet). considering the amount of time you are about to put in to measure, buy spokes and build the wheel, it's not too late to get a smaller wheel! and you'll enjoy the higher torque.

Yah GC, I was looking at your photos and you nailed it, that is from the salting of the road during winter that causes that. Also tells me you are getting some snow melt off inside of your rim, most likely through the space between the nipples and spoke hole on the rim. Instead of using a rims strip, take a role of duct tape, tear the tape in half, and wrap the spoke heads 3-4 times. Once the tube is inflated, it pushes on the tape and causes the tape to seal around the heads of the nipples. Granted every time you change your tube and tire, you would have to re-wrap duct tape around your rim as a liner, but it would solve some of this problem, still may be a little rust around the nipple and spoke hole though, it just wont get into the rim and tube area through the spoke holes as easily. And like you said, coating the washer with t-9 and letting it set before install would definitely deter galvanic corrosion by a huge margin.

Rick

 

[GiantEV]

Thanks, Rix. It's good to know that a 1.4 rim will work on the SR241. I'll probably use the 19x1.4 with the CST 19x2.0 2plys until I switch over to my wider frame. My hardtail rear is the problem with the narrow width. My front forks are a little wider, but I'm looking to upgrade to either the 888 or the forks Zombiess is selling with the dual brakes.

now what is the CST? is that a shinko tire? I am still shopping for a 21, I was pretty set on the https://www.denniskirk.com/front-mt90-scorpion-at-80-90s-21-tire.p542079.prd/542079.sku, I wrote an email and they confirmed it is indeed 6.5 lbs or so they say, supposedly 3 ply, havent seen any 2 ply not in the kindof roadlike pattern that I am looking for

Here is the CST (Cheng Shin Tire) tire I was talking about:
Cheng Shin C109 Front/Rear 2 Ply 2.00-19 Moped Tire

CST also owns Maxxis, who make the popular Hookworm tire.

It says 3 lbs for the weight, and I love the CST tires I have on my bicycle wheels, so I'll probably give these a try when I build my wheel. I'm hoping that with a 1.4x19 rim these 2.0" tires stay below 2.75" when mounted.

Also, as you've noticed, this is for a 19" wheel. I'm a 29er MTB fan, and the 21" motorcycle wheel would be nice for rolling over things, but when you take the larger wheel and add a heavier tire like these ones, I tend to agree with folks on here who say that even a Cromotor won't perform as well as when mounted on a smaller wheel.

 

[Rix]

GiantEv, that is probably the smallest 19MC/Moped tire I have seen. I will bet that the OD doesn't exceed 24.25". Being that its a 2 ply tire, it probably wont be any more durable than the 3x24 Duro Razorbacks which are also 2 ply. Either way, can wait to see your build with that set up. Please post pics.

Rick

 

[GiantEV]

Rick,
Is this the rim you're using?
Pro-Wheel Front Rim Kit - 19in. - Black , Color: Black, Position: Front, Rim Size: 19 19-TTRBKR

I noticed Pro-Wheel has several 19x1.40 rims, but this 19-TTRBKR model seems to be the only one with 36 holes.

 

[2007blueprius]

I was wondering what is up with the tiny wheels? I got my first 29er last year and I did not realize the difference till at some point I took my old 26 through the woods again, never got back on it since.

anyway I am looking at building a commuter, the particular tire I was looking at weiged 6.5lbs, rim is supposed to be 3.5, some tube and spokes, about 12 lbs, compared to I don't know? 2 lbs for the rim and tire it came with? yeah there is a bit of difference, but I am not into jumping and fancy stuff, not that young anymore, and winter riding, GC you are something else I read your posts, yeah that was the rim I saw.

OD for the Pirelli scorpion was 26 and some change, barely matches the stock 26'' od, honestly I would have preferred a 29er, I was going to build that first but than I figured if I plan on logging any kind of miles I best go for the MC tire combo.

on a DH bike if you are going to take it through the woods, on and off the throttle, jumping and such, sure a smaller wheel will give you that kick out of the hole and run cooler, I was building it more so tor top speed cruise, and to go to a 17 it will kill quite a bit of that top end. I think it will be fine for what I am doing? granted I see you all overvolt the motors to spin them faster, than I need 72v stuff or higher, I considered it at some point,

so anyway, washers? where is one supposed to get them from?

the rim is in town already I doubt it will deliver today thou, the kit is the 1000w ebay, generic, still unclear who makes those.

I am kindof torn which way to go about this, I should have built a 29er, that's what I originally planed, but did not have the patience to order a 700c wheel from china, so I figured I'll spoke it myself, than I figured since I am doing that why not put a mc wheel on it, now as it turns out the largest MC wheel I can reasonably use is only a tab over 26", I bought a cheapo walmart hardtail 29er for this because it has a steel frame, all my stuff is aluminum and I don't have a welder for that, now I was considering just making a swingarm I barely have 3 " clearance where this tire would fall, might as well,

so than shopping for some suspension parts, came across a cheap 26" full suspension, I have to find some time to check it out, I was originally considering it for the pivots and shock, now I am thinking the 21" mc od may fit it, maybe I still have to make a swing arm to accommodate for with, and use a 29er fork?, this other bike is aluminum and I cant work aluminum so we'll see, either make a steel swingarm or might just tweek the 29er hardtail frame

 

[Rix]

Rick,
Is this the rim you're using?
Pro-Wheel Front Rim Kit - 19in. - Black , Color: Black, Position: Front, Rim Size: 19 19-TTRBKR

I noticed Pro-Wheel has several 19x1.40 rims, but this 19-TTRBKR model seems to be the only one with 36 holes.

Yes that's corrects and yes the TT125L Yamaha PLaybike rim is the only 19x1.4 rim with 36 hole drill.

Rick

 

[Ugrd]

Got some things in today. Shinko 244 19" with a Pro Wheel 19" Blue, I wanted red but they were out.

Im just waiting for the 12g spokes from Holmes and il get started lacing it up Il post some pictures of it completely laced up and finished.

I was amazed at how big it was hahaha, it is just going to barely fit onto my frame.

Cheers,
Ugrd

 

[2007blueprius]

not bad at all, and yeah the 244 doesnt look too knoby, your pics are a bit better resolution, looks good, keep us posted I am right behind you, rim should be in today, got to get some measurements, and order spokes.

 

[johnrobholmes]

The pic with the rusted washers, those are Sapim washers. nickle plated steel. Stainless is the best choice, its what we use now. I made a die and we cold press our own nipple washers for builds. I'm working on another shape that will be stiffer, should give less "break in" of MC wheels and allow regular folks to build a bit easier. Right now I have to prestress the pants off wheels with washers to avoid detensioning on the first ride.

 

[Rix]

I was wondering what is up with the tiny wheels? I got my first 29er last year and I did not realize the difference till at some point I took my old 26 through the woods again, never got back on it since.

I was building it more so tor top speed cruise, and to go to a 17 it will kill quite a bit of that top end. I think it will be fine for what I am doing? granted I see you all overvolt the motors to spin them faster, than I need 72v stuff or higher, I considered it at some point,


so than shopping for some suspension parts, came across a cheap 26" full suspension, I have to find some time to check it out, I was originally considering it for the pivots and shock, now I am thinking the 21" mc od may fit it, maybe I still have to make a swing arm to accommodate for with, and use a 29er fork?, this other bike is aluminum and I cant work aluminum so we'll see, either make a steel swingarm or might just tweek the 29er hardtail frame

I missed this earlier, but wanted to comment. running both the 19x1.4 and 17x1.4 on both of my 5403 and 5404, and running the 24MTB with the 17 and 19 on my 5403, I can tell you that with certainty that you will not loose more than about 2MPH top speed. As discussed before, a couple of us concluded that the reason there isn't much top speed loss is because of the mechanical advantage increase with the 17MC, which allows the hub motor to spin faster making up for part of the decrease in wheel OD. I would speculate between a big and wide 29"MTB wheel/tire and the 17MC wheel with an OD of around 23-23.7 inches, there wouldn't be more than a 5-6MPH difference with the 5403 @80volts/70Ah.

Rick

 

[2007blueprius]

The pic with the rusted washers, those are Sapim washers. nickle plated steel. Stainless is the best choice, its what we use now. I made a die and we cold press our own nipple washers for builds. I'm working on another shape that will be stiffer, should give less "break in" of MC wheels and allow regular folks to build a bit easier. Right now I have to prestress the pants off wheels with washers to avoid detensioning on the first ride.

I saw those oval washers on ebay, that would not have been my first choice for sure, the other thing is he rides year arround, I don't even use my good car in the winter, I kept my old one for that, its allready rotten, so the spokes you sell are complete, nipple washers etc, those are the ones to have, custom nipples might be too much cutting 9ga spokes that is another chalange, no idea who would even do that,

I should have my wheel tonite, I'll take some measurements see what I come up with

 

[2007blueprius]

missed this earlier, but wanted to comment. running both the 19x1.4 and 17x1.4 on both of my 5403 and 5404, and running the 24MTB with the 17 and 19 on my 5403, I can tell you that with certainty that you will not loose more than about 2MPH top speed. As discussed before, a couple of us concluded that the reason there isn't much top speed loss is because of the mechanical advantage increase with the 17MC, which allows the hub motor to spin faster making up for part of the decrease in wheel OD. I would speculate between a big and wide 29"MTB wheel/tire and the 17MC wheel with an OD of around 23-23.7 inches, there wouldn't be more than a 5-6MPH difference with the 5403 @80volts/70Ah.

Rick

I apreciate you going back to it, we all know a hub will spin up faster with no load, I figured same principle aplies with less of a load per rotation, no doubt in a smaller wheel that hub will reach higher rpms, at the same time I ment to coment earlier and I forgot, few posts ago weight of a larger wheel was a concern, it has been a long time since school but if you want to get geeky a smaller lighter 19" that spinns up faster to reach same speed, its momentum will be rather simmilar in a braking situation, take off torque will be better, on the same size wheel the lighter the better, but in different sizes there is a break even raport

 

[Rix]

Got some things in today. Shinko 244 19" with a Pro Wheel 19" Blue, I wanted red but they were out.

Im just waiting for the 12g spokes from Holmes and il get started lacing it up Il post some pictures of it completely laced up and finished.

I was amazed at how big it was hahaha, it is just going to barely fit onto my frame.

Cheers,
Ugrd

Beautiful rims, cant wait to see mounted. ETA?

I apreciate you going back to it, we all know a hub will spin up faster with no load, I figured same principle aplies with less of a load per rotation, no doubt in a smaller wheel that hub will reach higher rpms, at the same time I ment to coment earlier and I forgot, few posts ago weight of a larger wheel was a concern, it has been a long time since school but if you want to get geeky a smaller lighter 19" that spinns up faster to reach same speed, its momentum will be rather simmilar in a braking situation, take off torque will be better, on the same size wheel the lighter the better, but in different sizes there is a break even raport

07 Prius, get as geeky as you need to, I am dumb as a box of shit when it comes to physics, beyond the simple stuff such as leverage ratios, mechanical advantage, and real basic geometry, stuff like that.

Rick