19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[2007blueprius]

helps a lot and I do apreciate the input, I don't know much about what's available so every bit helps.

as for the tire selections, yes there are plenty, but most require a rim wider than 1.6, and most are knobies which I am trying to stay away from, even the ones you posted, don't seem too knoby but still, I was looking more towards the road/cruiser/street type that's where selections get narow, I only searched the shinko site, even narower, and I am trying to stay within reasonable budget too, nothing outrageous, something comon that will be available later.

even the one I ultimately picked recomends a 1.85 rim, guess one could strech a bit,

thanks for posting the site, I did npot know about it, I'll have a look

so a 2ply is the rire to look for? I think the one I had chose was 4 ply that was a good pointer, I just don't know better.

I think there was a debate about disk or rim brakes at some point, I have some 203mm rotors, I could get some hidraulic brakes, thou for the front I was considering rimbrakes, I have a feeling they would do better, maybe I am wrong, if anything they have more leverage and do not stress the spokes, I have a 48h 29er rim I was considering for the front on a bmx sealed bearing hub rim brakes.

as for the rear motorcycle wheel I dont think rim brakes will be feasable, guess a 203 rotor with hidraulics will have to do.

 

[gogo]

I checked the shinko website last night and there are other sizes available but knobies, wont do well on pavement or sidewalks,

The Shinko 244 is listed as 80% street, 20% dirt. Don't be fooled by appearance, its really a street tire that can be taken on the dirt. I've experienced a brand new Shinko 244 on a 1974 Yamaha 125 enduro and it behaved perfectly on the street. I won't be buying anything else until I'm able to test it without having to buy first.

I managed to find a 2 ply tire that was 3 to 6 pounds lighter than any other tire I had previously found.

A lot of resellers cut and paste tire information incorrectly. Have you actually weighed this tire, or seen the 2-ply marking on the sidewall with your own eyes? If this animal exists, I'd think it would be great for ebike duty.

 

[2007blueprius]

https://www.denniskirk.com/duro/front-hf296a-blvd-80-90h-21-blackwall-tire.p540797.prd/540797.sku

this one intrigues me but as mentioned, I can't tell how heavy it may be , any larger than 80/90 I have a feeling it will be trouble on a 1.6 rim, maybe not do you guys know different?

nevermind, this site lists weight at 8.31 lbs, some are 12 so I guess this is a light one, the IRC 7.62 good info

https://www.denniskirk.com/pirelli/front-mt-66-route-80-90h-21-blackwall-tire.p652068.prd/652068.sku
how about this one under 8 lbs

https://www.denniskirk.com/irc/front-wf920-wild-flare-80-90h-21-blackwall-tire.p540136.prd/540136.sku
this one too, they are the lightest I could find, is 8 lbs still considered heavy?


OK i THINK i GOT IT:

https://www.denniskirk.com/pirelli/front-mt90-scorpion-at-80-90s-21-tire.p542079.prd/542079.sku

6.5 LBS, DO THEY GET ANY LIGHTER?, i LIKE THE THREAD TOO, LOOKS LIKE A GOOD COMBO, SAYS ITS A DESERT TIRE FOR SAND

 

[Rix]

What gogo said is true, lots of company cut and past tire data and I have found on several occasions to be incorrect. Unless you contact the company themselves and asked for wieght and dimensions, you cant go off of the data listed. But logically, any 2 ply 80/90x21 tire will probably be light enough to for ebike applications.

 

[2007blueprius]

I have not seen any 2 ply yet, maybe the 244s are but I have not seen it listed, these last ones I was looking at are 3 ply supposedly, guess I best wait and call in the morning, either way tire is my last concern just looking into it,

so I guess the rim is going to be 21x1.6, there aren't any reasonable options, an 80/90-21 tire like the one I last found, and it was not expensive either. my only question remains what to do about spokes?

I read the first post, not sure what was with the washers, looked at motorcycle spoke sets and they don't come with washers, I am inclined those were scooter of some type, slightly smaller?

for example looking at these http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-WHEEL-FRONT-RIM-21-KSYBK-36H-1-6-x21-GENERATION-III-YAMAHA-KAWASAKI-SUZUKI-/281299402762?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item417ec0400a&vxp=mtr

•Nipples are 8.1 x 4.0 spline drive thread , this size would not require washers I guess are motorcycle spokes thicker than 12 ga? what am I missing here?

I was looking at the first post as a 26 inch rim measures 22.5 at the outer they could be rather similar to the in size

well anyway anybody can walk me through the spoke aspect? my understanding is the holmes spokes are for ebikes, they require the washers, unless I misunderstood.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

•Nipples are 8.1 x 4.0 spline drive thread , this size would not require washers I guess are motorcycle spokes thicker than 12 ga? what am I missing here?

The stock spokes for a Honda CRF450 (as well as most other dirtbikes), which is what these excell and prowheel rims are for have a 9 gauge spoke so that ia what these nipples would most likely be for.

'Cal

 

[2007blueprius]

thanks again, your dirtbiker background came through again, that was the missing link, makes a lot of sense now, so I am supposed to use 12 ga spokes with oversized nipples and washers, to drill out the hub motor for 9 ga spokes may be too much and good luck getting them custom cut too, well than I best order that Pro wheel off ebay and take some measurements when it gets here see what we come up for a spoke measurement.

George

 

[kdee122]

Just a FYI

I use bicycle spokes and have made custom CNC nipples that fit motorcycle wheels. No washer needed. If there is enough interest I can make them for others.

 

[Rix]

Nipples are 8.1 x 4.0 spline drive thread , this size would not require washers I guess are motorcycle spokes thicker than 12 ga? what am I missing here?

Spoke nipple sizes can be confusing, the size you referenced, 8.1 x4.0 tells me that nipple has an 8.1mm diameter body and is for a 4mm spoke stalk. Probably uses a 7.2mm spoke wrench. The other number missing is the length of the nipple. This size should read 8.1mm X 18mm X 4mm. Assuming that the length is 18mm long like my 6.4mm X 18mm X for 3mm spoke which is technically between a 11G and 10g spoke according the AWG standard. 3.6mm is about 8 G a 4mm spoke would be something like a 6g or so, A little much for ebikes though. Holmes nipples are somewhere around 5.8mm or so in diameter and can be used with 13g. A 5mm spoke wrench is needed with those nipples. They are unique nipples for their large out diameter and small inner diameter and perfect for lacing MTB hubs to MC rims. Not sure how long they are, but they are shorter than 18mm. They are good options for any of prowheel racing 1.4" wide rims regardless of OD as they fit with out the need for washers.

Rick

 

[Rix]

Just a FYI

I use bicycle spokes and have made custom CNC nipples that fit motorcycle wheels. No washer needed. If there is enough interest I can make them for others.

Looking at your build and all the billet and machined hardware, not surprised at all. Top knotch parts.

Rick

 

[johnrobholmes]

The nipples I had made are for 14, 13, and 12g spokes. They are for 6mm spoke holes, which are found on most 1.4" wide rims and our 1.6" wide MMP rims.


Using a direct drive hub motor with steel flanges you could go up to 9g spokes. Alloy flange geared hub motors are better suited to 11g or 11/12 butted. Using any regular bicycle hub you will be limited to 13g so the hub doesn't blow out or get stress risers over time.

 

[Rix]

The nipples I had made are for 14, 13, and 12g spokes. They are for 6mm spoke holes, which are found on most 1.4" wide rims and our 1.6" wide MMP rims.


Using a direct drive hub motor with steel flanges you could go up to 9g spokes. Alloy flange geared hub motors are better suited to 11g or 11/12 butted. Using any regular bicycle hub you will be limited to 13g so the hub doesn't blow out or get stress risers over time.

Thanks for commenting and clarifying John, your sister company (Volt Riders) laced up my prowheel racing 19x1.4 rim to a Marzocchi 20mm through axle front hub which is running on the front of my Bomber. Beautiful work and I couldn't be happier with it.

Rick

 

[johnrobholmes]

Glad you like it! I have a run of 19" rims being made right now that will build even nicer. The downside to using off the shelf rims is that the nipple hole angles are practically never correct. My rims will have the correct nipple angles, just like our 17s do. mtb hubs and hub motors just aren't the same size as any moto hubs, so it makes sense that no regular rims line up.

 

[Rix]

Glad you like it! I have a run of 19" rims being made right now that will build even nicer. The downside to using off the shelf rims is that the nipple hole angles are practically never correct. My rims will have the correct nipple angles, just like our 17s do. mtb hubs and hub motors just aren't the same size as any moto hubs, so it makes sense that no regular rims line up.

Let us know when they are in. I will buy a couple for my inventory. Right now, I am down to one 17x1.4, two of your 18x1.4 aluminum rims, and one 19x1.4 rim. BTW those 18x1.4s grey anodized rims, getting any more of those in?

Rick

 

[johnrobholmes]

The grey 18s were a liquidated inventory score. Can't find any more right now unfortunately, so use them wisely!

 

[gogo]

My rims will have the correct nipple angles, just like our 17s do.

Sexy… :wink:

Misaligned-angle nipple seats and radial lacing offend my sensibilities.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Unless it is a non leaning trike or four wheeler, then half radial should appeal to your sensible needs of having a stable wheel 8)

 

[gogo]

Unless it is a non leaning trike or four wheeler, then half radial should appeal to your sensible needs of having a stable wheel 8)

Yes, that's how its done on some automotive spoked wheels. Actually, I'd think half radial would be preferred as radial is stronger for lateral loads.

Wheel lacing physics:
http://people.duke.edu/~hpgavin/papers/HPGavin-Wheel-Paper.pdf

 

[Rix]

The grey 18s were a liquidated inventory score. Can't find any more right now unfortunately, so use them wisely!

Awe man, glad I got your last two!
Rick

 

[GiantEV]

Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

Can someone confirm the actual width of these tires? I'm seeing 2.95" and 3.3" in this thread for the width of the Shinko 19x2.75" tires. Preferably pictures with calipers at the thickest part of the tire!

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

the rim mounted & inflated tire width & height will vary a bit when mounted on different rim widths etc..
2.95"-3.3" is pretty close.. less than 1/2" difference..
how much clearance does your frame have???
some ppl have trimmed the knob tread a bit if needed for more clearance (razor or heat blade)..
sorry no pictures...

Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

Can someone confirm the actual width of these tires? I'm seeing 2.95" and 3.3" in this thread for the width of the Shinko 19x2.75" tires. Preferably pictures with calipers at the thickest part of the tire!

 

[GiantEV]

On my current hard tail I have 2.90" of clearance. It looks like the 19" Shinkos are out until I move to a wider frame.

On a different bike I have the Shinko SR714 in 2.25-16 mounted to my 20" wheel and I absolutely love it. I have a Pirelli on my other 20" wheel and it's great too. I am enjoying not just flat free rides, but I rarely have to add air anymore as well.

I'd like to run moped/mc tires on a bigger wheel as well. I'm looking to build a wheel around a 4080, and would like to use a 19" mc rim. I might have to settle for a 2ply tire in order to get the 2.5" max width I need.

the rim mounted & inflated tire width & height will vary a bit when mounted on different rim widths etc..
2.95"-3.3" is pretty close.. less than 1/2" difference..
how much clearance does your frame have???
some ppl have trimmed the knob tread a bit if needed for more clearance (razor or heat blade)..
sorry no pictures...

Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

Can someone confirm the actual width of these tires? I'm seeing 2.95" and 3.3" in this thread for the width of the Shinko 19x2.75" tires. Preferably pictures with calipers at the thickest part of the tire!

 

[2007blueprius]

The nipples I had made are for 14, 13, and 12g spokes. They are for 6mm spoke holes, which are found on most 1.4" wide rims and our 1.6" wide MMP rims.


Using a direct drive hub motor with steel flanges you could go up to 9g spokes. Alloy flange geared hub motors are better suited to 11g or 11/12 butted. Using any regular bicycle hub you will be limited to 13g so the hub doesn't blow out or get stress risers over time.

So let me get this straight, the 11/12 spokes on the Holmes site have 6 mil nipples which fit the MC rim properly no need for a washer? Not even recomended?

I'm just trying to get my parts list together , the hub motor I have has a large steel flange, sure I could drill them for 9 ga, I'd rather not, ebikes are allready 12 ga? These spokes should fid the hub motor ( 1000w eBay) as well as the MC rim with nothing else? Are washers still a good idea or that is a different build? Like the pic a few posts up

 

[2007blueprius]

My rims will have the correct nipple angles, just like our 17s do.

Sexy… :wink:

Misaligned-angle nipple seats and radial lacing offend my sensibilities.

Is this why the washers might come in handy? As they can swing to the spoke angle?

Real question is what is a proper spoke setup? Holmes/regular 12ga with special nipples with or without washers?

Granted drilling the rotor for 9 ga spokes is an option, but the rim holes still won't line up, maybe the smaller 12 ga have some desired leeway.

My motor will be in tomorrow, so will the bike, rim I just ordered the 21x1.6 pro wheel on eBay, supposedly it's about 3.5 lbs, the lightest tire I found was 6.5 lbs spokes and tube looking at about 12 lbs plus motor, how am I looking so far?

Guess I'll have to see what size the hub and wheel actually are before I figure the spoke length

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

I just ordered the 21x1.6 pro wheel on eBay, supposedly it's about 3.5 lbs, the lightest tire I found was 6.5 lbs spokes and tube looking at about 12 lbs plus motor, how am I looking so far?

Don't forget that spokes and the tube will probably add another 2 pounds.