19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[Offroader]

halp!

https://www.torpedo7.co.nz/products/DZTU4NN24/title/dsi-tube-24-x-1-75-2-125--schrader-valve-

Will this 24" tube fit a 19x1.6" rim and 19x2.75" Shinko SR244? I am having a hard time finding suitable 19" tubes.

edit: got this:

http://www.mxshop.nz/kenda-inner-tube-70-100-19-hd-at197010kehd?search=AT197010KEHD

I did some research and testing on the best tube. The lightest tube and some say best quality is this right here. Just select the appropriate size.

https://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/32323/i/irc-tr-4-tube

Edit: I find it odd they don't have a 19x2.75" tube. Well these are the 2nd best tubes and about the same weight as the ones above.

https://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4391/i/bikemaster-tube

Remember, you have to be careful what tube you buy because most are very heavy and are meant for hard motorcycle/dirt bike use. These I listed here are as light as you can get, but still thicker than any bicycle tube and probably still overkill for our ebikes.

 

[FluxShifter]

I'm taking my 1500w leaf motor out of it's 26" bike wheel and lacing it into a 19" MC wheel. Tired of the flat tires and short tread life. Looking to improve torque with the added benefit of reducing the load on the motor resulting in lower temperatures and improved efficiency. I picked up a 19"X1.4" wheel, rim tape, tire and tube from Treatland.tv. best deal I could find on this size wheel. The wheel weighs around 2.5lbs and is solid compared to the flimsy wheel the motor came with. Should be easier to true and keep true. I ride 80% on 20% off road with this bike so I don't need a chunky tire like the Shinko 244. Went with the Vee Rubber VRM 013 19" X 2.25". It is a 4 ply DOT rated tire for speeds up to 65 mph. Weighs 4.3lbs and stands 23.5" tall. 3" less than then 26"x2.35" Schwalbe Big Apple. The side wall is around the same height as the Schwalbe at 2.5" but much thicker. The tube I got from Treatland is thicker than a bike tube but not to heavy. I measured the ERD at 468mm using the method Rix uses. I used the ebikes.ca spoke calculator and it came up with 130mm. Ordered 12ga 128mm spokes from Holmes Hobbies with the moped nipples. Much better quality than you get from the chrome looking Chinese spokes. The nipples are a couple mm too large at 5mm so I will have to drill out the rim. The spoke holes have an angle of 78 degrees so I will try to drill at an angle to meet the calculated 72 degrees. A stepped drill bit should help in meeting this angle as it will chamfer the edge.
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This Wheel should provide me with so many benefits with the only down side being weight. I can hop curbs without worry. Run 35% cooler at the same torque level as a 26" wheel. I won't have a flat every other ride and will be safer than a bike wheel at 45 mph. Anyone with a DD hub should consider moving to a smaller stronger wheel.

 

[madin88]

@ FluxShifter

2lbs for the rim and 4lbs for the tire are good numbers. i think we will hardly find 19" components with lower weight. Thanks for sharing that.
the spoke hole diamter of the rim is 5mm, is this right?
about the spoke angle i think you should not bother about. The nipples normally have a ball-shaped head so if you drill the rim a bit larger as the nipple body dia they should than nicely align with the spokes.
do you have a link to that rim and do you know if it's also is available with 17"?

 

[FluxShifter]

The nipple diameter is 5mm so the spoke holes are less in stock form. Resized the spoke holes already. They came out great. here are some links.
http://www.treatland.tv/semi-gloss-satin-black-NINETEEN-inch-rim-p/black-nineteen-inch-rim.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/vee-rubber-vrm013-moped-tire-19-x-2-25-p/vee-rubber-vrm013-19x2.25.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/ALUMINUM-36-spoke-rim-18-x-2-50-p/aluminum-36-spoke-rim-18x1.6.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/ALUMINUM-36-spoke-rim-18-x-2-25-p/aluminum-36-spoke-rim-18x1.4.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/semi-gloss-satin-black-SEVENTEEN-inch-rim-p/black-seventeen-inch-rim.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/RADAELLI-17-x-2-50-chrome-spoke-rim-p/radaelli-17-2.50-spoke-rim.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/new-17-x-1-20-chrome-spoke-rim-ciao-maxi-p/new-spoke-rim-17x1.20.htm
http://www.treatland.tv/new-17-x-2-25-chrome-spoke-rim-p/new-spoke-rim-17x2.25.htm

 

[cwah]

I'd like to fit this 16" moped tyre to my dahon jetstream with 20 wheel:
http://www.tyretectrading.co.uk/michelin-city-pro-80-90-16-rear.html

Can I fit it on normal bike rim or shall I get a moped rim? if so, which one?

thank you

 

[Baron]

I'm taking my 1500w leaf motor out of it's 26" bike wheel and lacing it into a 19" MC wheel. Tired of the flat tires and short tread life. Looking to improve torque with the added benefit of reducing the load on the motor resulting in lower temperatures and improved efficiency. I picked up a 19"X1.4" wheel, rim tape, tire and tube from Treatland.tv. best deal I could find on this size wheel. The wheel weighs around 2.5lbs and is solid compared to the flimsy wheel the motor came with. Should be easier to true and keep true. I ride 80% on 20% off road with this bike so I don't need a chunky tire like the Shinko 244. Went with the Vee Rubber VRM 013 19" X 2.25". It is a 4 ply DOT rated tire for speeds up to 65 mph. Weighs 4.3lbs and stands 23.5" tall. 3" less than then 26"x2.35" Schwalbe Big Apple. The side wall is around the same height as the Schwalbe at 2.5" but much thicker. The tube I got from Treatland is thicker than a bike tube but not to heavy. I measured the ERD at 468mm using the method Rix uses. I used the ebikes.ca spoke calculator and it came up with 130mm. Ordered 12ga 128mm spokes from Holmes Hobbies with the moped nipples. Much better quality than you get from the chrome looking Chinese spokes. The nipples are a couple mm too large at 5mm so I will have to drill out the rim. The spoke holes have an angle of 78 degrees so I will try to drill at an angle to meet the calculated 72 degrees. A stepped drill bit should help in meeting this angle as it will chamfer the edge.

This Wheel should provide me with so many benefits with the only down side being weight. I can hop curbs without worry. Run 35% cooler at the same torque level as a 26" wheel. I won't have a flat every other ride and will be safer than a bike wheel at 45 mph. Anyone with a DD hub should consider moving to a smaller stronger wheel.

Thanks for this post, lots of good info here. If I wanted to lace a leafmotor 1500w to a similar 17" moped rim, anyone know what length spokes I would need?

 

[Lurkin]

depends specifically on the ERD of the rim.

Use Grins spoke calculator. forces you to make all the appropriate measurements and tells you the answer.

 

[FluxShifter]

Laced up and tire mounted. The 19"x1.4" MC wheel was easier to lace and true. I had to improvise and used a giant spoon to get the bead of the tire over the rim. Don't tell the wife . The 26" bike wheel assembly weighed around 20lbs. The 19" wheel weighed around 27lbs. Not to bad.

 

[Baron]

@FluxShifter I'm impressed. You really running that thing at 72V? Rough calculation tells me that's about 66mph unloaded speed. That thing must fly

depends specifically on the ERD of the rim.

Use Grins spoke calculator. forces you to make all the appropriate measurements and tells you the answer.

Thanks. [strike]I wasn't aware they had data on the leafmotor hub measurements, I'll have a look at that.[/strike] edit: looks like they don't have those measurements but luckily I have them written down somewhere...

 

[madin88]

Thanks for this post, lots of good info here. If I wanted to lace a leafmotor 1500w to a similar 17" moped rim, anyone know what length spokes I would need?

measuring the spoke flange diamter and width is an easy thing. to get the ERD i prefer to ask the supplier or manufacturer directly, but knowing about how to do measure it ourselves would be nice.
FluxShifter: could you explain the method Rix used?

@FluxShifter I'm impressed. You really running that thing at 72V? Rough calculation tells me that's about 66mph unloaded speed. That thing must fly

did he mention what kV or turn count his Leaf has?

 

[Lurkin]

@FluxShifter I'm impressed. You really running that thing at 72V? Rough calculation tells me that's about 66mph unloaded speed. That thing must fly

depends specifically on the ERD of the rim.

Use Grins spoke calculator. forces you to make all the appropriate measurements and tells you the answer.

Thanks. [strike]I wasn't aware they had data on the leafmotor hub measurements, I'll have a look at that.[/strike] edit: looks like they don't have those measurements but luckily I have them written down somewhere...

Not as of yet no. Similarly, I have measured them and written them down somewhere if you need them...

 

[FluxShifter]

Thanks Baron

I have a 5t leaf 1500w so the kV is 10.1. Top speed in a 26" wheel was 52 mph at 120% throttle. I should be able to hit 45 mph with the 23.5" OD tire. This motor has a flange diameter of 232mm and flange spacing of 40mm. The overall diameter is 243mm. 128mm spokes were a good choice to put this motor in a 19" wheel. Bike is all wired up so I will take it for a test ride tomorrow. Still need to deal with the rear brake caliper spacing and fab some torque arms.

 

[Rix]

Laced up and tire mounted. The 19"x1.4" MC wheel was easier to lace and true. I had to improvise and used a giant spoon to get the bead of the tire over the rim. Don't tell the wife . The 26" bike wheel assembly weighed around 20lbs. The 19" wheel weighed around 27lbs. Not to bad.

Your MC tire conversion came out very well. You have definitely found the smallest and lightest 19MC tire I have heard of. If you ever decide you want a tire that works a little better in the dirt, and still awesome on the road, and is not much bigger OD wise, consider the Vee Rubber VRM 021 2.75-19. That tire will be going on the front of my next build. Its less than 2 pounds heavier than the a 24x3.00 Duro Razorback.

 

[FluxShifter]

Laced up and tire mounted. The 19"x1.4" MC wheel was easier to lace and true. I had to improvise and used a giant spoon to get the bead of the tire over the rim. Don't tell the wife . The 26" bike wheel assembly weighed around 20lbs. The 19" wheel weighed around 27lbs. Not to bad.

Your MC tire conversion came out very well. You have definitely found the smallest and lightest 19MC tire I have heard of. If you ever decide you want a tire that works a little better in the dirt, and still awesome on the road, and is not much bigger OD wise, consider the Vee Rubber VRM 021 2.75-19. That tire will be going on the front of my next build. Its less than 2 pounds heavier than the a 24x3.00 Duro Razorback.

The VRM 021 does look like a great tire for dual purpose use. I went for a light combo with the least amount of OD for a 19". The VRM 013 2.25 is super smooth and still has enough side wall to give a good ride even on a hardtail. My Santa Cruz with a LR small block is my off road bike but hasn't seen too much dirt cause I keep breaking things. I will add some before and afters to the pic thread later. This thread helped alot with my decisions for my MC wheel conversion. Thanks guys 8)

 

[Offroader]

What do you guys think about drilling those 1.6" prowheel rims?

Lots of mountain bike users drill and cut their rims to be smaller without any issues.

The prohweel rims are built so heavy and tough for our low powered light ebikes that I see no reason why we should not be lightening them. Seems to make a lot of difference to reduce that rotational mass. Preferbly I would like to have a 17x1.4" (much lighter) rim but since Holmes hobbies only sold the 1.6" rims I have two of them now and want to lighten them.

Take a look at how much this guys drilled out their fat bike rims. I'm thinking a lot of weight can be cut/drilled out of the prowheel rims.

I know many of you will feel it is unsafe, but lets face it. The prowheel rims are made for 500+ lbs bikes pushing lots more torque and horse power than our tiny motors with no gears. The rim doesn't need to be as heavy and strong, and especially heavy in the worst possibly location.

 

[macribs]

Offroader if you do cut your Pro wheels let us know before and after weight and pls remember to take a lot of photos so you can post here.
The pro wheel is very different from that fat bike rim, also I think people running fat bike rims are not riding that hard as e-bikers. Low speed is kind of where fat bikes excel. So cutting, slicing and dicing a fatbike rim I would have no problem. But for an e-bike I don't know.

As you see the spoke holes are rather close together and in the center of the rim, but in between them there are a lot of mass. But when does shaving mass become "too much"?

Would be interesting to see how much weight you can shave off and still have a durable rim that can take a heavy hub. Or maybe start with front rim first?
I've got a set of brand new pro wheels 19" x 1.85" taking up space on the shelf, removing mass might be what they need. How close to the spoke hole would you dare to cut?

 

[Mammalian04]

I think it would be MUCH easier to take a 17x1.4 and re-drill the spoke holes to the correct angle. Hacking on a Prowheel sounds like serious machining and difficulty to get it looking right and the balance right (we ride these things fast and need them balanced somewhat.

 

[macribs]

I think it would be MUCH easier to take a 17x1.4 and re-drill the spoke holes to the correct angle. Hacking on a Prowheel sounds like serious machining and difficulty to get it looking right and the balance right (we ride these things fast and need them balanced somewhat.

I've heard over and over people complain about other rims then MMP from Holmes has wrong angles. How steep are his spoke angle? I mean those pro wheels are no problem to lace up when it comes to spoke angle and there is really no need to be drilling steeper angles if you ask me.

 

[Rix]

I think it would be MUCH easier to take a 17x1.4 and re-drill the spoke holes to the correct angle. Hacking on a Prowheel sounds like serious machining and difficulty to get it looking right and the balance right (we ride these things fast and need them balanced somewhat.

I've heard over and over people complain about other rims then MMP from Holmes has wrong angles. How steep are his spoke angle? I mean those pro wheels are no problem to lace up when it comes to spoke angle and there is really no need to be drilling steeper angles if you ask me.

Even the Prowheel racing rims I have and the Racing Boy rims all have drill angles that aren't perfect for anything north of 168mm spoke flange OD. All my spokes exit the nipple and bend a little, and through careful proper tensioning during the truing process, are still more than strong enough for our needs.

@Offroader

Preferbly I would like to have a 17x1.4" (much lighter)

Quite a while back now, winter 2012-2013, I drilled out one of my 17x1.4 rims with a 7/8" key hole bit. Drilled 35 holes 7/8" round on my rim. The weight of that rim went from 40.8 ounces to 33.1 ounces. It was not worth the time I took to drill the rim and we didn't have this thread back then to post our findings. Unless you take out lots of metal like the rim in your post, literally a trellis design, weight loss will be minimal at best. I guess 7 ounces for the guy that is counting every ounce is okay, but for wheel, motor, rim, tube, and tire combos that weigh anywhere from 16-40 pounds, I don't think 7oz weight loss would be noticed.

///Edit Typo, are was changed to aren't

 

[madin88]

the prowheel rims do not have the right angle - even the 19" if you look closely. they are made for moped/motorcycle hub and these hubs have only about 100-150mm diameter while ebike motors have above 230mm.
on one of my bikes i have the 1,4" prowheel on the front and the holmes MMP 1,6" on the rear (17"). i really do not bother about the 300g higher weight, but for 1000-1500W motors it would be nice to have such really lightweight moped rim.

 

[Rix]

the prowheel rims do not have the right angle - even the 19" if you look closely. they are made for moped/motorcycle hub and these hubs have only about 100-150mm diameter while ebike motors have above 230mm.
on one of my bikes i have the 1,4" prowheel on the front and the holmes MMP 1,6" on the rear (17"). i really do not bother about the 300g higher weight, but for 1000-1500W motors it would be nice to have such really lightweight moped rim.

You are correct, I had typo on my earlier comment, "are perfect" when I meant "aren't perfect" when referring to drill angles.

 

[Offroader]

I think it would be MUCH easier to take a 17x1.4 and re-drill the spoke holes to the correct angle. Hacking on a Prowheel sounds like serious machining and difficulty to get it looking right and the balance right (we ride these things fast and need them balanced somewhat.

I've heard over and over people complain about other rims then MMP from Holmes has wrong angles. How steep are his spoke angle? I mean those pro wheels are no problem to lace up when it comes to spoke angle and there is really no need to be drilling steeper angles if you ask me.

Agreed, if I had to do it all over again I would buy a 17x1.4 prowheel and deal with the bad spoke angles. The 17x1.4 I believe is around a pound lighter than the 17x1.6. I laced a 19x1.4 without any issues to my cromotor.

Being that I have two 17x1.6 HHM rims mounted already to cromotors, I really don't want to relace anything or buy another rim.

I also don't care if I screw up one of the rims either so am willing to experiment. I am wondering that if the rim isn't strong enough, would it more likely be a catastrophic fail of the wheel or would it bend and warp first? I don't mind trying to lighten the rim if it is more likely going to be a slow fail, but I don't really want to go flying off the bike if the lightened rim fails catastrophically.

 

[Offroader]

I actually have a 17x1.6 Holmes rim (3rd 17x1.6 rim) that is slightly warped and junk now, bent in and can't be trued, after breaking like 11 or 13 12 gauge spokes in a nice hit.
Maybe I'll drill that out as a test to see how much weight I can reduce on that to see if it is worth it to drill out my good rims.

Rix: you shaved 7 oz on a 1.4 rim, but a 1.6 rim is much heavier and should be easier to shave away the weight.

Does anyone know if I can get away with drilling some holes in the sides of the rim also?

 

[Mammalian04]

I actually have a 17x1.6 Holmes rim (3rd 17x1.6 rim) that is slightly warped and junk now, bent in and can't be trued, after breaking like 11 or 13 12 gauge spokes in a nice hit.
Maybe I'll drill that out as a test to see how much weight I can reduce on that to see if it is worth it to drill out my good rims.

Rix: you shaved 7 oz on a 1.4 rim, but a 1.6 rim is much heavier and should be easier to shave away the weight.

Does anyone know if I can get away with drilling some holes in the sides of the rim also?

It would seem that the sides would be important for both bead and strength.

 

[macribs]

Offroader, your desire to leave the motor alone is leading you to a path that can easily end in tears and pain. 8)
I mean if you leave your rear hubs as is you are left with one wheel to change, the front wheel. If you think about it crashes due to wheels going bad, the pain are always worse if it occur on the front wheel. Front wheel failure is more likely to put you face down on the pavement. Ouch.

Mad kudos for being willing to step up to the plate even if it mean heavy blows to the scull antermortem
Are you sure about not testing that rear wheel first