1St ebike done, now onto revision 2 on Kona Stinky frame.

[Kris B Krunch]

page 2 is where I'm current at with my bike, but i figured if leave this up for any info that may be useful

Hi everyone, I've been lurking and reading as much as I can on this site the last few months and learning as much as I can about ebikes. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I want and need in an Ebike. I just would like some input on a few things before I go ahead and order any parts.

First off, I think I'll be going with either a BMC V2 torque motor, or possibly the speed version. I've been in contact with Ilia from Ebikessf.com and he has answered a lot of my questions and seems like he really knows his stuff. I'd just like to get a few other opinions first.
The controller I was thinking of going with the one included in Ilia's kit, the Crystalyte anlog 35A 24-72v 12 FETs BLDC motor controller limited to 35A

As far as the battery, that, I'm really having a hard time deciding. I'd really like to do what a few others here have done by building their own packs and having them inside the frame triangle. I really don't know a lot about electronics, I've been trying to learn, but I have to admit, a lot of it is still confusing to me.
I'd like to have a pack I think to be around 50 volts, I'm thinking at least 10Ah's (more would be nice) and I'm pretty set on LifePo4, nothing against Lipo, just doesn't sound right for me.

And then finally, I'm having a bit of a dilemma as to which one of my bikes to use for this. My bike that would be a decent commuter for riding to work. Or my beefy off road bike that could work quite well for commuting(I think) and be great for the trails too.
Bike 1 is a Trek aluminum frame, pretty basic front shocks, V brakes, grip shift, and is in good working order.

Bike 2 is a Kona Stinky Primo XL frame, I bought it used a couple years ago, and have only used it a bit sadly. I upgraded the brakes to Avid Juicy 7's front and back. It has I believe around 6 inches of travel front and back. One idea I had if I decided to get the BMC V2-S version, maybe I could get a 24" rear wheel so that it would be like a cross between the torque version on 26" vs speed version on 26". What do you guys think about that idea?

I think with either bike, it's main goal would be for me to be riding it to work, and maybe around town a bit too. I do really like the idea of getting double the use out of the kona by having it electrified for the trails, I think I'd take it out more often as well. Also one of my goals is just to ride my bikes more and get in better shape just by riding more often, yes, the hills will now be easier. The one hill to my work is pretty steep, I've tried riding it a few times and I get frustrated by having to spend a good half of the time walking my bike up the hill.
I'm leaning towards the Kona, just not completely sure yet though.

Anyways, here are a couple pics of the two bikes. Thanks in advance for any suggestions and help.

 

[MadRhino]

I'd definitely go for the stinky, but no way I woud change the geometry of that bike. I've had a dawg and a deelux, both bikes I consider perfect canditates for an electric ride.

The reasons why I find your Dawg good for a build:
It has good disc brakes
It has a strong ridgid frame
It handles very well at high speed

I'd keep it on 26, the BMC v2T has torque enough to make it a beast on that size of wheel, and the bike feels very good as is IMO. Then, if it's too large for you, keep its original geometry and change both wheels, but you might want to go for the v2s in that case, to avoid losing speed.

What you forgot to mention, is the performance expectations that you have, and the kind of ride that you'll do. Range, speed, hills, and riding style, all are important factors in the choice of battery-motor-controller that will suit your needs.

 

[neptronix]

For batteries, i would get a 15 or even 20ah.
10ah won't last that long with the kind of speed you'll have.. 35a would drain a 10ah battery in a short distance, and the tendency is to use the throttle a lot!

Also.. 35a is definitely the upper limit of what the MAC / BMC motors can handle. If you search around on the forum, even with an upgraded gearset, many people break gears on those motors at or slightly above amperages like that.

If you are using it on a lot of hills, i would recommend a direct drive motor instead.

 

[dogman dan]

No dilemma, do both bikes. Since it's your first project, you can experiment some on the 820, make a mistake or two as we all seem to. Then with a bit more experience, you will be better able to do the kona right. It woud be sad to see you break the dropouts on the kona, doing something wrong on the first ride.

You are correct though, that the kona could be a great commuter. If you insist on lifepo4, 10 ah size, and 35 amp controller, you will have to use better batteries than the typical ping or v power hk. So A123's or headways.

 

[Ariane]

Hi Kris,

I suggest a MAC Shangai motor for you needs with a BMC gears still cheaper than a BMC V2S or V2T and the winding of this motor is something between the Speed and torque BMC motor and the seem to be able to handle more power output than a BMC with the green gears.

Here is a comparison between those to motor and I have chosen a MAC for all of thoses reasons:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22103&hilit=bmc+vs+mac

MadRhino nice avatar

Hope its help good day!
Black Arrow

 

[wojtek]

hi,

I have been more than happy with kona dawg and BMC V2S from Ilia - the bike is made for electric conversion
Massive front suspension and very efficient rear one, beefy frame made of scandium - very tough material used in aerospace!
+ replaceable rear dropouts which is very important if something goes wrong with adjusting them for the hub motor or if you want to put QR wheel back..

You will need to replace at least one hydraulic disc brake with the mechanical one in order to be able to use the crystalyte brake that automatically cuts off the power when brake engaged. I hate those avid mechanical disc brakes but it is safe to have it.

I used 50v20ah prismatic Lifepo4 cells and put them on my rear rack topeak bag. I also got Lipo pack 48v10ah. Honestly I love Lipos for their weight and smaller size! the energy density diffence is really substantial and you will love the reduced weight on your bike.

Due to frame shape you will be quite limited with the inframe battery option..

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BUILD!!!

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24383&p=353227&hilit=kona+dawg#p353227

 

[MadRhino]

@wojtek
This Dawg is older than yours, it's alu frame I guess, nevertheless a very good bike to build. Torque arm a must. The hydro brakes levers can be fitted with a switch for the E-brakes, also new controllers can be programmed to have regen 'compression' on throttle release.

 

[Drunkskunk]

The best bike for what you want is the Stinky. But it's a bad bike for a first conversion. Its a bike that demands Lipo, and relaced motor rims for something far better, and welding up custom batery and controller mounts.
An 820 will make a perfect comuter bike. They are kind of the Ideal bike to convert.
So Convert it. ride it a couple thousand miles. break stuff (everyone does) fix it a dozen times untill you know exactly what to expect, and can advise others, and then convert the stinky.

 

[Kris B Krunch]

Wow, thanks for all the great responses everyone.

I'll give a little more info in what I'm looking to do with my bike as I know I'd really like to do the Stinky now, but I am hesitant as it is my first ebike, like others have suggested, so it is quite the dilemma....but then again, I do believe it is possible to learn from others mistakes and not have to make them all myself

I rode the Trek home from work today (Is it cheating taking the bus to work and riding home with just one short hill climb and the rest all downhill and some flat ground? haha) One thing, even with going downhill on the Trek, it doesn't feel as good going down hill fast, I find I use the brakes a lot. So I'm thinking for that simple reason, maybe I should just stop this dilemma and go with the Kona. But then again, The trek is so much lighter, I love how it's easy to cary it over my sholder walking up the stairs from my back yard. The Kona is a heavy bike, that's for sure.

my daily commute would be rather short, but there is one wicked hill I talked about before, some of it is a 10% and then there is one section that is on average a 14% grade that I end up walking the bike up. I do think that after I would like riding around town, longer distances than going to work. Does this sound like the BMC V2T is the right motor for me, or does the V2S sound like it would be better? I only want to do the V2S if it can handle the steeper hills as well, I do expect to peddle as well. Honestly, if money wasn't an issue, I'd love to buy both and try them both out.
But on the other hand, would the V2S be of much use on the trails, where higher speed is not needed, and more torque would be much more appreciated?

Oh, and Ilia told me with that setup, I could have him limit the controller amps, or I could limit the amps with a cycle annalist, which I think I would get as well.

And about the batteries, From what I've read, the reason I'm not big on Lipo, is because of how they have to be in a safe location charging, and my house, everything would have to be inside, and I have no garage either.
I have ruled out Ping's for a battery pack. I've seen a build thread with people from here making there own battery pack with a123 cells in a triangle kind of shape for inside the frame, that's what I think I'd like to do, I'm just not all that sure how to do it. The write up I read a while back (can't find it now) the guy from this site, made a real nice enclosure for this battery pack and made use of the full triangle, and I think he ended up with around 12amp hours, but then had another battery pack and found that 12ah wasn't very much for the kinda trail exploring he liked to do.

And If I do go with the Kona (I'm leaning about 75% towards doing it, but doing it right) I'd definitely want to get some torque arms made up or purchased.

Is there anything I'm missing? And once again, any and all input is greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Kris B Krunch]

I rode the Trek again today, and man, I just can't decide on which bike, I've been thinking about it and all of the suggestions you guys have given and I have given it some serious thought. Tonight when I rode home, I got off work at 5 (last night I worked a little OT, so it was darker out last night) and with it still being a little bit light out, the ride home down the hill with some speed wasn't nearly as bad as I gave it bad credit for yesterday. Yesterday was my first ride in months so maybe that had something to do with it too.

Anyways, I'm now thinking maybe I should infact do the Trek now, and the Kona later, after I learn a bit more like a few of you have suggested.

Some commuter bike positives over the kona I can now see are:
-it's a lot lighter, easier to carry up a narrow stairway
-no pedal bob like on the full suspension Kona, I still plan on doing a lot of pedaling.
-not as tempting for someone to try to steal or mess with.
-narrower tires, will probably buy some less aggressive tread tires too.
-cheaper bike, but still good components.


So, if I go with the Trek, this still leaves me with a few questions I'm hoping some of you could answer for me.

-If I were to make my own battery with a123 cells in a triangle type configuration, would I be able to tell appox how many ah I could get out the space provided on the frame? I'm thinking with the huge opening on the trek, I could get quite a bit, the Kona, at least a 1/3 less space....maybe more. If I go this route, it'd be more for practice so I could later build a nice stealthy battery for the kona.

-If I were to build my own pack, would I be able to have one simple charger where I would just bring the bike inside, hook it up, and leave it charge?

- The Trek has V brakes, and no possibility that I know of upgrading to discs without swapping in different shocks in the front....the rear, there is nothing on the frame, disc's were not very popular when I bought this bike. So, others out there with V brakes, Are you constantly changing the pads, or is it ok?

- my other idea for this bike, maybe just buy a battery pack pre-made, and store it in my backpack with a coiled cord with a quick disconect. A while back I saw a member on here with that kind of setup, but I can't find it now. I think that would be pretty good.

And I'm also thinking about maybe if I do go with the Trek, how does changing the geometry on it sound. I think that maybe going with a 24" rear and leaving the front 26" might give it more of a similar stance like my kona that I prefer. What do you guys think? Think it would make much of a difference? Or would it just mess with it and look silly? One advantage I'd see for hill climbing with the V2-S is it would have a little more torque and less top end speed wich I could live without. Would the change in angle for the front shocks make this bike handle a bit better at higher speed by swapping in a 24"?


Thanks in advance, I know, that's a lot of questions and ideas all at once.

 

[wojtek]

@wojtek
This Dawg is older than yours, it's alu frame I guess, nevertheless a very good bike to build. Torque arm a must. The hydro brakes levers can be fitted with a switch for the E-brakes, also new controllers can be programmed to have regen 'compression' on throttle release.

The hydro brakes levers can be fitted with a switch for the E-brakes <= sorry I did not know :? thought that would be more complicated. Could you send me a link or let me know how to install such switch on standard hydro levels?
cheers!!! :wink:

 

[wojtek]

re the battery , you can get FS topeak rack and a bag if you decide to go for kona. perfect place for the battery + the cables will be shorter and closer to controller and motor.

Carrying reasonably good range LIFEPO4 on your back will be a b*tch..

If you get a pre-built lipo pack, like the 50V 10Ah LiPO from Ilia eg at 3.1kg, it will have all the safety options like low / high cut off which is important for your safety. So there should not be too dangerous and it is soooo light!
But i understand first few times i charged lipos, i put them into oven even though they had BMS

As said, I have 2 battery packs, one heavy with more range lifepo4 at over 8kg and another Lipo over 3kg. The difference is huge in handling and control of the bike. Prob with the battery inframe, it won't be so noticeable as when put in the rear rack. But i never tried.

Trek is definitely better for inframe battery mount. It will be faster too. And lighter. But you lose advantage of disc brakes and a lot of comfort and confidence from FS. Esp with the extra weight of batteries and motor...

 

[neptronix]

Trust me when i say the bike that handles the high speed is the one to go with.

I had a trek 930 that i picked for my first project because it was light and durable.
I quickly found myself needing to upgrade to a bike with dual disc brakes and front suspension ( at the least )!

If you are going to do off road AND high volts/amps, it is well known that these two conditions alone will make for a short life with a geared motor of any kind. Combined; even worse!
IMHO you should look into DD motors. Or stick to under 35a and don't do any off-roading with a MAC/BMC motor.

 

[dogman dan]

Off road hubmotors for trail riding are the holy grail, that's for sure. I know of only three suitable motors for hard riding on trails, and even then, you have to watch out for overheating when climbing hard.

Crytalyte 5305, or 5304 in 24" rim. They are getting harder to find, and with wheel and tire will weigh about 25 pounds. When riding a rough enough trail, this can blow a tire right off the rim, bend rims, etc.

9 continent 2810 motor. This slow winding motor is cheaper and lighter, and works pretty good on trails at 1000 watts. I just melted the dog doo doo out of mine, but at 2600 watts. I shoulda had a thermometer on it, and thought, " its a cold day". But this motor is unavaliable at the moment. A small quantity of them is said to be on order headed to E-BikeKit this spring or summer. Hopefully they do arrive, I sure want another.

However, if your trail riding is a little less hard core than mine, you could do shorter more carefull trail rides on a bmc torque version I'd think. But it's not going to be like having a real dirt motorcycle. I find the main issue with trail excursions on a commuter is the tires. I don't want to scream into a paved corner with big knobbies. Nice balloon tires don't have the grip on dirt. But there are wider tires out there that won't be so bad on pavement, yet will not sink into the dirt too deep and get skittish like skinny tires do on a trail.

And I'll keep saying it. Test everything on the trek first. That first test ride I did three years ago ruined a bike, a motor and a controller. Hell, playing with all the stuff is half the fun anyway. But do build your battery to fit into the frame of the FS bike. You may end up with a battery divided into two sections, but that's ok. Some of the battery could go on a rear rack, or over the top bar perhaps. Go with 26" rim. On the trek you'd have no rear brakes, but mainly you will want 26" when you swap it over to the nicer bike.

Get a123's from cellman, find him in the for sale section. I'm not sure what else he can supply, but a ping charger and bms should work with the a123's I think. Ask Cellman though, I'm a plug and play kinda guy. The safest place to charge lipo in most apartments is the top of the stove. built for fires. Or inside the oven should work. I'm lucky, and have a fireplace hearth.

 

[Ykick]

Seriously, do the Trek 1st... Everything learned (there will be lessons learned) should pay off LARGE when you eventually do the Kona.

And 9/10 times (particularly, when you get the GRIN) you'll want a 2nd ebike for a friend, cargo carrying or a spare when a flat tire or other problem arises. Compared to batteries, 2nd motor/controller ain't that expensive...

Then do a small and large battery pack that mounts and works on either platform. I use weatherproof saddlebag arrangment and hang over top-tube on whatever bike frame I'm powering.

Backpack thing is too goofy IMO. Lipo's are hard to beat performance-wise but gotta be safe and treat with proper patience and respect. Only you can know if you have what it takes to play that field - it's no game!

 

[ev_nred]

do the cheaper bike firt leran form your mistakes then do the Kona. also why not try a small rc motor? have you looked at the firction drive rc builds? forum meber kepler sells the drive unit. just my 2 cents
cheers,
jacob R

 

[Kris B Krunch]

The best bike for what you want is the Stinky. But it's a bad bike for a first conversion. Its a bike that demands Lipo, and relaced motor rims for something far better, and welding up custom batery and controller mounts.
An 820 will make a perfect comuter bike. They are kind of the Ideal bike to convert.
So Convert it. ride it a couple thousand miles. break stuff (everyone does) fix it a dozen times untill you know exactly what to expect, and can advise others, and then convert the stinky.

That makes a lot of sense, I'm seriously thinking of going this route

Carrying reasonably good range LIFEPO4 on your back will be a b*tch..

yeah, I've nixed that idea. Thanks

Trust me when i say the bike that handles the high speed is the one to go with.

I had a trek 930 that i picked for my first project because it was light and durable.
I quickly found myself needing to upgrade to a bike with dual disc brakes and front suspension ( at the least )!

If you are going to do off road AND high volts/amps, it is well known that these two conditions alone will make for a short life with a geared motor of any kind. Combined; even worse!
IMHO you should look into DD motors. Or stick to under 35a and don't do any off-roading with a MAC/BMC motor.

Thanks, I'm seriously taking your advice into major consideration, as you have real world expierence between two simular bikes and makes me remember why I bought the stinky in the first place, I felt I needed something better, granted it was for mountain biking primarily.
I'm still battling with myself on this matter, been thinking long and hard about it these last couple days. I think I'll make a decision by the end of the weekend.
Oh, and I'm not planning on running the motor at 35amps, that's just what the controller can handle, I'll get a cycle analist and probabbly keep it in the range of 20-25 amps.

Off road hubmotors for trail riding are the holy grail, that's for sure. I know of only three suitable motors for hard riding on trails, and even then, you have to watch out for overheating when climbing hard.

Crytalyte 5305, or 5304 in 24" rim. They are getting harder to find, and with wheel and tire will weigh about 25 pounds. When riding a rough enough trail, this can blow a tire right off the rim, bend rims, etc.

9 continent 2810 motor. This slow winding motor is cheaper and lighter, and works pretty good on trails at 1000 watts. I just melted the dog doo doo out of mine, but at 2600 watts. I shoulda had a thermometer on it, and thought, " its a cold day". But this motor is unavaliable at the moment. A small quantity of them is said to be on order headed to E-BikeKit this spring or summer. Hopefully they do arrive, I sure want another.

However, if your trail riding is a little less hard core than mine, you could do shorter more carefull trail rides on a bmc torque version I'd think. But it's not going to be like having a real dirt motorcycle. I find the main issue with trail excursions on a commuter is the tires. I don't want to scream into a paved corner with big knobbies. Nice balloon tires don't have the grip on dirt. But there are wider tires out there that won't be so bad on pavement, yet will not sink into the dirt too deep and get skittish like skinny tires do on a trail.

And I'll keep saying it. Test everything on the trek first. That first test ride I did three years ago ruined a bike, a motor and a controller. Hell, playing with all the stuff is half the fun anyway. But do build your battery to fit into the frame of the FS bike. You may end up with a battery divided into two sections, but that's ok. Some of the battery could go on a rear rack, or over the top bar perhaps. Go with 26" rim. On the trek you'd have no rear brakes, but mainly you will want 26" when you swap it over to the nicer bike.

Get a123's from cellman, find him in the for sale section. I'm not sure what else he can supply, but a ping charger and bms should work with the a123's I think. Ask Cellman though, I'm a plug and play kinda guy. The safest place to charge lipo in most apartments is the top of the stove. built for fires. Or inside the oven should work. I'm lucky, and have a fireplace hearth.

My trail riding is definitely not hardcore, but I do like going down some reasonably steep (to me) terrain. Main reason I bought the Kona, the geometry of the Trek had me feeling (and sometimes actually) flying over the handlebars on the steep stuff.

I'm not into doing big drops or big jumps for that matter, but I do want to get out there and have some assistance with getting up the hills.
But I'm thinking that my bike will be used for 90% of the time for commuting to work...so it's decision time, it's a tough one.

On the other hand, doing the trek now and keeping it for a commuter primarily, and then the kona later, having two bikes, would be cool for having my girlfriend or a buddy join me. But then again, $$$

Seriously, do the Trek 1st... Everything learned (there will be lessons learned) should pay off LARGE when you eventually do the Kona.

And 9/10 times (particularly, when you get the GRIN) you'll want a 2nd ebike for a friend, cargo carrying or a spare when a flat tire or other problem arises. Compared to batteries, 2nd motor/controller ain't that expensive...

Then do a small and large battery pack that mounts and works on either platform. I use weatherproof saddlebag arrangment and hang over top-tube on whatever bike frame I'm powering.

Backpack thing is too goofy IMO. Lipo's are hard to beat performance-wise but gotta be safe and treat with proper patience and respect. Only you can know if you have what it takes to play that field - it's no game!

Thanks, yeah, two bikes eventually would be cool. I don't know anyone except a couple older people I work with with ebikes, and they are of the 200-350 watt variety.

I really like your saddlebag idea, I might go with that.

do the cheaper bike firt leran form your mistakes then do the Kona. also why not try a small rc motor? have you looked at the firction drive rc builds? forum meber kepler sells the drive unit. just my 2 cents
cheers,
jacob R

is that the system with a motor and another chain that goes to the rear? If so, I'm not a fan of the noise and I prefer a little stealthier look. Thanks though for your suggestion. But I decided a while bag a hub motor is what I'm looking for. A fairly sure bmc is what I'm gonna try out first.


Anyways, thanks everyone for all your suggestions, I got a lot to take into consideration and I'll let you know what I decide and later make a build thread.

 

[Kris B Krunch]

Something I just thought of, What gears do most people use on there ebikes? The reason I ask is that my Kona has a rock ring instead of the 3rd, larger gear in the front. I know for riding on the trail, that's all I need, but I'm wondering if without it, on the flats I'll quickly be going too fast on electricity to pedal.
How about when climbing hills? I still want to be able to add my pedal power to the mix. Does anyone use the 3rd ring in the front for hill climbing? Or do most use the 2nd gear just like a regular bike, or even first?

Thanks.

 

[MadRhino]

Gears are according to the power and speed of your setup. With speed, you will like the bigger chainring and the smaller freewheel gear, with power you'll almost never shift from there.

I ordered a Schlumpf HS drive, to be able to pedal my bike at high speed, because now on the max gear ratio, I'm free pedaling at 100ft from the start.

 

[Kris B Krunch]

So does that mean even for steep hill climbs most here use the front biggest (3rd) ring gear? Should I not even consider the Kona unless I'm willing to change it to 3 rings in the front?


It's been about 3 weeks now that I've been doing the taking the bus to work with my bike and riding home, and it's good for the most part, except one of the days when the bus showed up with no bike rack and wouldn't let me on, even though I'm usually the only one on the bus that early in the morning (I don't live in a big city, bus is pretty much my own most days) So that's why I'd also like to be self sufficient, I know it'll take a long time to make up the cost of $1.50 a day for bus fare by going electric, but not long when I take into account that I'm parking my Jeep with 35" tires (eat's gas like crazy) taking insurance off of it, and only gonna put day permits on for 4x4ing (not all that often anymore) and camping trips.

But as a comuter bike, this thing is great. I'm now totally comfortable riding back home down quite a steep hill, I barely use the brakes at all, so I don't think the issue of going through pads and wearing out my rims is going to be a huge issue unless I start riding my bike a lot more....which I might, and then if I do the trek first, Kona second.

 

[wojtek]

So does that mean even for steep hill climbs most here use the front biggest (3rd) ring gear? Should I not even consider the Kona unless I'm willing to change it to 3 rings in the front?


It's been about 3 weeks now that I've been doing the taking the bus to work with my bike and riding home, and it's good for the most part, except one of the days when the bus showed up with no bike rack and wouldn't let me on, even though I'm usually the only one on the bus that early in the morning (I don't live in a big city, bus is pretty much my own most days) So that's why I'd also like to be self sufficient, I know it'll take a long time to make up the cost of $1.50 a day for bus fare by going electric, but not long when I take into account that I'm parking my Jeep with 35" tires (eat's gas like crazy) taking insurance off of it, and only gonna put day permits on for 4x4ing (not all that often anymore) and camping trips.

But as a comuter bike, this thing is great. I'm now totally comfortable riding back home down quite a steep hill, I barely use the brakes at all, so I don't think the issue of going through pads and wearing out my rims is going to be a huge issue unless I start riding my bike a lot more....which I might, and then if I do the trek first, Kona second.

With BMC im using 2nd and 3rd gear - and playing around with the gears at the back.. The steepest hills I normally do with the 2nd gear in front and biggest ring at the back + 900W of BMC. I'm sure you can push BMC harder over 1000W but i want it to live long

On flats i hardly use 2nd gear when outside town, in the city with lights and traffic i like to switch between 2nd and 3rd.

1st gear [the smallest ring in front] i hardly ever use.

It is very important to have the right gear range with BMC motor in order to have a good workout excersizing your muscles 8) . Make sure the rear derailleur will work with your new freewheel. Also i have 44t biggest ring in front and it is definitely TOO LOW!!! i bought a 50T ring to exchange but have not done it yet. You can also get a bigger 3chainset with 48T max. You will need it at 36+ kmh.

 

[Kris B Krunch]

Hey, thanks for the great info. I guess I can play around with it too, but good to know the 2nd ring still get's some use.

if I do the trek first, it has 3 ring gears in the front, I should be ok. Damn, I never thought it would be such a tough decision which to do, first. I can already tell I definetly wanna do them both eventually, lol

 

[Kris B Krunch]

UPDATE
This is long overdue
I did the Trek bike first. I had a 48v10ah pack mounted to the back rack. LifePo4.
I rode the bike for a few months, it was ok, but some power issues (more on that later) and didn't like the lack of breaking power and really felt like a rough ride going at speed down hill.

I then took everything over to the Kona Stinky and wow, what a difference in how the bike handled, but I attribute that to the fact that I mounted the battery up front to the forks, Oatnet style, but just a quick and temporary battery bag for testing purposes. Anyways, I kept it this way and it was pretty good, but I discovered what I'd like to change.

-better mounted battery pack, with no movement (but I knew that going in, cheap battery bag was for testing)
-I'd like to get a higher tooth count ring for the front so that I can pedal along when going full speed on the flats, uphill is no issue.
-I think I'd like to maybe try out a half twist throttle
-get cruise control
-Down the road, maybe single ring front, and Schlumpf drive.

So, I think all of that I can handle on my own, maybe a bit of just trying more things out to see what I like. But my issue at hand is I would like to replace my battery. Reason being, mine has died, won't even take a charge anymore. It's been a while now since I have given up on it. The voltage would always sag to around 44, sometimes 43 volts and it never would last long at the 20 amps continuous like it was supposed to, I had some success keeping it quite low at 12 amp hours, but only twice did I ever get 5ah's most of the time I was in the 4.2-4ah's range. Anyways, the guy I bought it from was great, I bought it knowing that it wasn't a great battery, and when it turned out that it didn't work out well he sent me another charger to try out and then when that did not help, he refunded me a large portion of the money. So no complaints there. Stand up guy, it's just too bad the battery didn't work out.

Anyways, so I'm thinking that I would like to get a new batter pack, my first option I was considering was getting a 16s A123 prismatic 20Ah pack with BMS made by cell man, the only things keeping me back are, it is quite expensive, shipping is quite expensive too. And, I'm not sure if that is high enough voltage. I do know the positives are, it'll last me a long, long time most likely. 20ah's capacity would be great, but anything over 4.4ah's is an improvement. I know I could potentially do a booster pack down the road, but, I'm not sure how to do that, or if I want to go down that road.

Secoundly, I'm not sure if I'm gonna keep the kona this way for long. I might find I really like the bmc v2t with more wattage. The most I've ever had it was in the 880 range. If having it in around 1000 watts, maybe up to 1500 for short periods doesn't do enough for me, I might just move the bmc system onto my wifes bike next summer. But I have a feeling with just a little more power, I'll be quite happy with my bike with the v2t. And I do want to keep the ability to pedal along as a must.

So, I'm thinking of going with Lipo this time, I'm just not quite sure how to connect the batteries correctly. I do have a cycle analyst like I think I mentioned earlier. And honestly, although 20ah would be nice, I think for now, 8ah min- 15ah max would be enough for me.
my controller and everything is from Ilia at Ebikessf.com Crystalite 24v-72v and 25amps. I've been told that v2t's like more volts than amps, so I think I'd like to keep the voltage around the 60V range and then play with the amps via cycle analyst to find the sweet spot and I know not to overwork the bmc. Maybe next I'll attempt to oil cool it if I still want more power.


I'm torn between getting lots of 4s packs for a really good price, or keeping things simple by spending more money and going with either 6s packs, or even 8s packs.

4s packs:
-cheapest is going with 8 packs of these for 59.2v and 10 ah's or 12 packs for 15 ah's But thats a lot of packs to wire together and take apart to charge. But $172-$258 is cheap.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack.html

6s packs:
- 6 packs for 66.6V and 10AH or 9 packs for 15 ah $265- $397
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9176__Turnigy_5000mAh_6S_20C_Lipo_Pack.html

8s packs:
4 packs for 59.2V and 11.6 AH's and $384 (Only thing is they are on back order. I know some very similar slightly more expensive Zippy ones are in stock, but I've heard the wires are more flexible on turnigys)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10870__Turnigy_5800mAh_8S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

Or, is Nano Tech worth the extra money. The one thing that really stands out for me is that there are some available that have 8ah's, easy to upgrade to 16 ah's later? or bad to mix age of packs? or 6ah packs are nice in-between for doubling up to 12ah's.

6s nano pack: six packs of these for 66v and 12 ah's, but price is climbing $447
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11941__Turnigy_nano_tech_6000mah_6S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack.html


Next, I get how voltage and ah's work and how connecting in series and parallel work, but I lack any actuall hands on experience. And I'd really like to make it as simple and idiot proof, aka plug and play as possible. Is getting this protection kit all I would need from methods to bulk charge the majority of the time, and just individual charge the packs to rebalance them every once in a while?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18210__Turnigy_nano_tech_8000mAh_6S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack.html
Or do I need to get a different wiring harness as well so I can just plug my pack in at the end of a ride and charge just like with LiFePO4? a few extra steps is ok, I just don't want to be taking the pack apart everyday.

Next, is what would you guys recommend for a charger and power supply? I hear a lot of good things on here about icharger, and saw someone link to a combo deal here.
http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_20&products_id=170


I'm pretty sure that this next phase on the kona, even if I decide to go higher power and DD later on, it'll be next summer or spring at the earliest.

Wow, that's a lot of info, I really appreciate any and all feedback that I get. Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Lipo is the way to go with the Kona, but read Everything on the dangers and risks of Lipo first. they really are a risk, and they really are worth it.

I've got a 19" Kona. Six 5S packs fit easily inside the triangle. If I built a box, I could fit 12 packs in the triangle area easily, without it being too wide. Having the weight near the center of mas on the Kona really improves the handling.

6 packs of 5s 5000ma batteries is a 55.5v 10Ah pack. or if I plan to ride slow, its a 37v 15Ah pack. the 37 v option gives better throttle response when I plan to be slow.. and improves my range because I can't speed.

I actually have 8 packs, the 2 extra fit in a side pocket bag to the main bag so that I could run 74v 10Ah, but I rarely carry that much battery.

 

[mvly]

Nanotech in my opinion is not worth it. So far their cycle performance has left me lackluster.

Just get the turnigy and you should be fine.

I don't think method's protection actually balances the cells for you. It just cuts out the output if any of the cells are below some threshold.