2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

menvert said:
The trouble with that table, is that it's unclear what load is being applied on any given row.
The row with 116.6 rpm is actually only 5A, so that's only drawing 1/3 power so I'd assume it's not very loaded, I usually see about 5A full throttle on flat

I don't believe it's as simple as double load needs double watts or amps, to maintain a particular rpm, maybe someone here knows the physics of it better?

To give you a real world example (on my normal 36v battery) On my steepest hill, I get about 15kmh in low, which is.... about 112 RPM and drawing about 12.5A/450w from the battery (the engine will see less based on efficiency)
Click to expand...

menvert - if you are going up your steepest hill at 15kmh (a little better than 9 mph, no?) that seems pretty good, especially if you are not pedaling much or not at all. Do you have any idea how steep that hill is?
 
Alan B said:
I've done some measurements with my DD hub and found that I can pedal at 500W for helping on short hills. I estimate this by dropping throttle as I pedal hard and keeping the speed the same while watching the battery power drop.

It is important to keep the speed up since significant heating will occur if motor RPM is too low.
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Good point Alan B - 500 w output for a short time is reasonable for many riders. I think that except for the steeper hills I should be able to apply modest power to get the motor into it's most efficient range. I would benefit by climbing more quickly with much less effort than riding without e-assist and conserving the battery by riding in it's most efficient range for a shorter period of time vs longer and less efficient.
 
This looks very promising and I am going to take the plunge but one thing I wonder about is what to do with that controller. I understand that it is a good idea to get it some ventilation to cool it but when I look at the picture of the controller it seems a good idea to protect it from the elements. I could figure out a way to mount it to the seat tube where it would be convenient to the hub motor and a bottle mount battery but would this be a bad idea because of exposure in wet conditions? Do I need to put it in a water tight enclosure somewhere? Thanks!
 
lowspark said:
menvert - if you are going up your steepest hill at 15kmh (a little better than 9 mph, no?) that seems pretty good, especially if you are not pedaling much or not at all. Do you have any idea how steep that hill is?
Click to expand...

I wish I knew how to tell the gradient properly... but I can roll down that same one @ my highest so far of 55kmh/34mph
hmm google maps puts it at 290m 28m elevation, not so sure that that's accurate as 10% seems to not be so steep, I can go about 20kmh/12.4mph till the last steeper 1/3rd where I go to low and slows to 15/9. This is one of the cases I do pedal, not heavily, about 40-50 cadence, but enough to keep rpm's up, without any pedaling I think I'd get still do 13/8

The controller is already sealed to be 'water proof' it's got rubber seals and grommet around wires, if you mount with wires down or under something it'll be very safe. pic here
grommet.jpg
 
Thanks menvert - it seems that I would be alright mounting the controller on the seat tube. I will have full coverage fenders that extend low so I won't have spray from the front tire giving the controller a refreshing shower. I think that I would rather have the controller where it more or less falls between the hub and the battery rather than raise it up and stuff it in a seat pack where I would rather carry tools.

Your hill climbing performance sounds great. I know that you are enviably light, but still, 12.4 mph up most of a slope that averages around 10% and dropping to 9 mph or so for the steepest pitch with a bit of help sounds extremely useful.
 
It has an IP54 rating. IP67 would have been great, but they said that their design is locked in and cannot be upgraded.

First digit: Ingress of solid objects
5: Limited protection against dust ingress. (no harmful deposit)

Second digit: Ingress of liquids
4: Protected against splash water from any direction.


http://www.mpl.ch/info/IPratings.html
 
This mysterious question about the load that menvert, mountain biker and others have raised - could it simply be the torque value? Well, I guess not. But it seems that electric motors are typically tested and results reported without regard to a particular loading condition - it is just a relationship between the speed of the motor and the torque that it produces without regard to its application. Most of you probably already understand this:

http://lancet.mit.edu/motors/motors3.html
 
Further to the wheel size/rpm discussion a couple of pages back, I have this to add.

"Usually the max RPM for 24'' is around 245RPM, for 20'' rim is around 290RPM.
By the way the max RPM can be done according to your own needs."
 
cjh said:
It has an IP54 rating. IP67 would have been great, but they said that their design is locked in and cannot be upgraded.

First digit: Ingress of solid objects
5: Limited protection against dust ingress. (no harmful deposit)

Second digit: Ingress of liquids
4: Protected against splash water from any direction.


http://www.mpl.ch/info/IPratings.html
Click to expand...
Wow cjh - I had no idea of such a rating scale. Yes, IP67 would be wonderful. If I decided to mount the controller on the seat tube and at some point had a problem, would I risk damage to any other component besides the controller? That is, would the hub motor and battery be okay? The controllers are about $25, I am willing to risk that, but not if I fry my motor. Sorry about asking what may seem like a silly question but I know nothing about this stuff. Thanks!
 
Actually I got caught in a 'worst in 20 years' storm on Thursday, 5 min from home it hit so suddenly, luckily the storm front I got was the smaller one (without the golf ball sized hail) but all my gear survived fine (controller is tucked in a pretty dry spot though), I was drenched through, headwinds cut me down to about 60% speed and side winds constantly trying to knock me off, it was kinda fun, glad i had my electrics or I would have been really stranded, next day rode to work everything working fine (I was suspect on the HAL switch, but it seemed fine)
 
Very good news menvert, that you came through the nasty storm without problems, and that you avoided the golf ball sized hail.

I'm still a bit nervous mounting that controller near the base of my triangle. The controller is one thing, then there is the matter of those connections. It seems prudent to have it all in an enclosure. I finally came across pictures and info on d8veh's excellent Rocky Mountain build and I see that he has his controller safely stashed in his battery pack on top of the rack.

It seems that one must choose between protection from the elements or exposure for cooling. How hot do these controllers get? I am thinking of going with 48 V 15A set up.

A little top tube bag like this could be mounted low on the seat tube. While not completely waterproof, it would provide some protection in a downpour and could contain the wiring for a clean look. A downside is that it would not allow ventilation for cooling:

http://www.rei.com/product/872936/deuter-energy-frame-bag#tab-description
 
TBH mine did survivie okay in a plastic box at [strike]standard 36v[/strike](actually lifep04 battery is higher than lipo/lion - 39.6v resting through most of the discharge), but it was always quite warm by the end, enough that it felt hot through the [tupperware] plastic even if it wasn't in direct contact, I was always worried it'd melt stuff over time.
However when I added 1 extra cell it was REALLY hot in the box, too hot to hold for more than a few seconds. I think that originally d8veh had the older controller, so maybe that was a different heat profile, as I'd imagine mine at 20A would be too hot in a box. But yes you would need to protect the connections too if it was open air.
I don't really know if you'd expect a 48v to run hotter or cooler or the same
 
Mine is running at 20A in that bag without getting too hot. It gets no air flow at all. At only 15A ou shouldn't get any problems at all wherever you install it.
 
Thanks for the good info all. I think I'll go with 48V 15A and I will wire it up so that I could have the controller on the seat post with the connections in a little bag mounted just below. I'll start by keeping the controller in the bag too and will be cautious, checking heat until I am confident that I can just leave the controller in the bag. On the other hand, if I find that it gets hot, I will remove it from the bag and keep it just above the bag with the connections. Based on what d8veh suggests, I think I will probably be able to place both the controller and connections in the bag, placed low in the frame, which will make for a clean look and allow short runs for the cables.

You have all been very helpful and I greatly appreciate it. I am sure that I will have more questions as I move forward and will have many pictures to post as this project comes together. Thanks again!
 
I have e-mailed an inquiry to yona to start the ordering process. But in the meantime, I was wondering, how difficult is it to install this kit? Does Xiongda provide any instructions with the kit?

I'll have a wheel builder build the hub into the wheel for $50 plus parts. And I assume that all of the Xiongda components will just plug into to each other. Is it difficult to shorten some runs of wiring if they are excessively long - that is I can I easily reattach the connectors if I shorten cable or are the terminations better from the factory? Any special precautions or connectors for connecting the battery to the controller? Is the PAS installation straight forward (I recall d8veh ran into some issues)? Thanks...
 
Is it difficult to shorten some runs of wiring if they are excessively long
Click to expand...
Here's a pic of the amberwolf method of soldering to ends of a wire. Cut away the excessive length. Immediately slide on a section of heat-shrink insulation. Shove the ends together. Wrap the joint with a single strand of wire to hold the tips smooth. Heat it with a soldering iron and add solder, slide heat-shrink over the joint, then heat it with a match or any other heat source.

file.php
 
lowspark said:
I have e-mailed an inquiry to yona to start the ordering process. But in the meantime, I was wondering, how difficult is it to install this kit? Does Xiongda provide any instructions with the kit?

I'll have a wheel builder build the hub into the wheel for $50 plus parts. And I assume that all of the Xiongda components will just plug into to each other. Is it difficult to shorten some runs of wiring if they are excessively long - that is I can I easily reattach the connectors if I shorten cable or are the terminations better from the factory? Any special precautions or connectors for connecting the battery to the controller? Is the PAS installation straight forward (I recall d8veh ran into some issues)? Thanks...
Click to expand...

No instructions were provided for me, except for a small one for the LCD, it should be apparent where to plug what (accelerator/pas/e-brakes/hall sensors/motor power), the power input will be 1 male 1 female bullet connector, so you'll need to terminate the battery wires with something compatible, or completely solder in your chosen connectors...
PAS installation requires you to remove a crank arm and crank bearing cover(so you can mount it under the bearing cover), and that generally needs some special bike tools.
Feel free to ask or PM with any specific Q's, and the wire shortening was nicely answered already
 
The biggest problem is to get the motor in the frame depending on which version you've ordered. If you want to use a disc brake and seven-speed freewheel, you need to stretch the frame. Steel frames are dead easy, but aluminium ones take a bit more effort.

All the wiring is plug-and-play except that you'll need to sort out battery connectors
 
I've been riding my Mk 1 a lot recently. Now up at 750 miles,it's quietened right down to the point that I'd say that it's the quietest motor of that size and power that I've tried. In the first three levels, it's more or less silent. You can only hear it at low speed. I've bought a 48v one with the sine-wave controller, which I was going to swap to get a quieter ride, but I don't think I'll bother now. Don't forget that I'm running at 20A too.
 
Thank you all for the excellent advice.

I learned to solder when I was 13 years old but never applied that skill - now I will have an opportunity. Spinningmagnets' succinct tutorial is a marvel of clear, concise communication.

Once upon a time I did all of the wrenching on my bikes, did a total rebuild, but that was long ago and my bike tools are long gone. My LBS will be helping me with the build, I'll be sure that they get the PAS in place when they install BB and crank. I am starting from a bare frame. Luckily (well actually by choice) it is a steel frame and fork and the rear hub spacing is 132.5, so I should be okay. I'm just going with single speed so I should have plenty of room but I suppose that it would be prudent to plan for a potential cassette. What I am really going for is a nice riding bike that could live on even if the hub was pulled someday but I want that 2-speed motor to knock down the hills for me.
 
crossbreak said:
interesting. so it does 48V/20A quietly? even at higher speed like 50 kph?
Click to expand...
No, It's 36v 20A and it doesn't reach 50 kph. It maxes out at about 32kph on the road. On the highest power level (5), you can hear it up to about 25kph. Above that, you can't.
 
mountain biker said:
so any results on a 24 volt version of this motor?
Click to expand...
TBH, I am not so sure anyone here will try that combo, 24v just isn't very common these days
I think it'd be pretty slow and low acceleration (360w MAX @ 15a, then you also have efficiency loss)
If I do end up buying a 12s LiPo (which is likely) I could try mine at 22v (1/2 the pack), but as my windings are not for 24v, it won't really mean much in the end...
You might be best asking the manufacturers what you can expect from a 24v version?
 
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