2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

It wouldn't be fair for me to publish info on wholesale prices for Luna, without also publishing the wholesale prices for ebikes.ca, and em3ev too. Of course, all that would do is agitate buyers when they find out that all of these retailers are making a profit. Those bastards! How dare they not sell parts to us for cost...

If someone wants to save a few bucks and not get ripped off by a retailer who wants to make a filthy profit, its easy!...just buy this motor from aliexpress!
 
Merry xmas everyone... and so suiting a christmas troll has joined "ETRIKE" from oregon with the british writing accent.

You know you guys wouldnt believe how much the typical dealer mark up is on a hub motor kit is. I could start listing factories and prices if you guys think that would be helpful...but it would just hurt other dealers and i dont need to do that.


The biggest mark ups are on the bigger high power motors.... to be honest this kit cost me more than a mxus 3000 or a Qs motor kit would.... the profit margin is higher and high speed fits our business model better....but i have chose to stay away from heavy and powerful direct drive motors because i think they are too heavy.... and other usa dealers are doing a fine job selling them so i can stay away from that.


This kit was expensive and time consuming to create...the motor is the easy part.... it is outfitting it with proper connectors, a true sine wave controller and a the most advanced ebike color display this country has ever seen that gets a little tricky.

Imagine i took this risk on a tiny little hub motor.... i could have done it with macs... or with bafangs 750w motor...but i decided to gamble and do it with a little bitty motor i love and think nobody else is offering anything like this in my country.

But sure enough haters gonna hate anyway.

Sure a factory might double cross me and offer this kit on alibaba...... but right now no ebike factory in china really wants to do that. And guess what it would be bad for everyone if they did.

It moves the industry forward i think when the bar is raised like this.... quality connectors, temp sensors. self diadnostic software, tiny controllers.... integrated quality display.... amp hour read out.....the way a hub motor kit should have been offered in this country and it never has.

i mentioned amp hour read out in there... dont know if you saw that...

But anyway we arent just one of those companies waiting for it to appear on alibaba.... that isnt us.... we are pushing for things to be made better and putting real work and money to make that happen.

well i believe it does good... or it might just get slandered enough for being overpriced unreliable junk that it starts to stick...and nobody buys it and every one writes off the company i started and it goes back to the way it was..... but i see that as never happening.

The cats out of the bag..... ;) and its rocking.

Anyway i did this video on what it takes to bring what i think is the most refined kit ever brought to the USA market. Sorry i was a bit upset that night because of all this crap talking .... and it comes off in the video....

its ok doubters and haters really inspire me to bring innovations like this faster to the market. I am gong to try to make it to the shop today so i can shoot you a video just of the color display.... the feature set you will really like.

[youtube]wZq0rnRzQsA[/youtube]
 
Isn't there a limit to the amount of negative garbage the anti-Luna trolls can regurgitate? Their latest tripe about pricing is amazing when one considers that, product for product (where direct comparisons can be made), Luna's prices are lower than the competition. They're bringing the entire forum down with their blather; in case they're wondering, their motives are transparent to other readers. Eric should just ignore them instead of lending credence by responding to their vomit.
 
Keen to receive my xiongda motor and dyno it with a few different controllers. I am really hoping it can be what I am looking for my new train commuter bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yep - although your explanation above is really a single phase explanation not three phase- but I know what you mean.

For testing i can manually shift - and chances are for the circa 200 buck delivered price tag direct from the manufacturer for a single piece I would just keep the standard controller if the dyno difference is negligible.

But most of the infineon based makers include reverse function.
Not hard to populate the board on a nine fet if it doesnt.

Here's a WOT comparison of noise levels on a geared hub motor using a basic six step square wave versus a cheap sine wave controller " - which are pretty much all really just high frequency square on an oscilloscope. True sine let alone FOC would add a huge expense to a cheap kit. No point putting lipstick on a happy pig.

The human perception of the sound levels are (almost) negligible on a Mac - lubrication more effective. Although I got about a 2.2% efficiency increase (dc amps in) at no load on WOT.
7480e51f416af8302967a57f6d5cbb98.jpg


I need to go back to the start of the xiongda threads and look at the images - anyone know the pressure angle of the gears? Are they helical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I took a break from this thread a year or so ago as it seemed like it was going to take a while for the early bugs to be worked out of this Chinese 2 speed.I sure liked the concept but figured it would take years until the bugs got fully worked out and as I was in search of mid drive solutions I unsubscribed from the thread. Now that I am following this thread again its great to see Eric is working on improving this 2 speed motor in ways that more speaks for the American market.

I think back to the early days when I bought my first direct drive hub motor kit, the things that bugged me the most with my first couple of builds we're the shape of the off the shelf battery packs that were available locally, the super super crappy connectors (hated those things from the moment I saw them ), and the bad combination of low voltage powered DD hubs which did not work like I had hoped for what I was wanting to do with my bike - I wasn't about to put an ill fitting small rear wheel to help the struggling DD hub either. I thought back then e-biking was fun but man there was a huge disconnect from what was for sale, and what I wanted to put on my bike. I wanted to have fun climbing hills with a bolt on solution but everything looked junky and worked like sh!t compared to our options now.

I say THANK YOU ERIC! What you are doing matters and I support you! I will continue to buy my stuff from you. I am sure the two speed hubby you have now will continue to evolve and I for one want to say I really like the way you are putting your specifications on things where you can, to address improvements in kits for the American (Canadian) market place.
 
Ron makes a good point about pricing and given this product really is running a different controller to the luna product anyway should the luna version have a seperate thread? That way should a group buy or similar eventuate people understand that it is a more basic version for a different price - similar to other motor group buys having open pricing from the manufacturer - such as mxus.

I am keen to discuss this basic motor version in this thread not the luna version anyway as i think it holds the key to affordable commuting for many people in many countries. Imagine if we can make ebiking more affordable for everybody by having lots of people around the globe setting up this basic kit with a simple low ampacity commodity battery.

I had always hoped that the bbs01 would be the answer to getting every person possible on an ebike but the proprietary price is a barrier. This product could help many of us who want to see affordable ebikes capable of speed and torque realise their dream.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
waynebergman said:
I took a break from this thread a year or so ago as it seemed like it was going to take a while for the early bugs to be worked out of this Chinese 2 speed.I sure liked the concept but figured it would take years until the bugs got fully worked out and as I was in search of mid drive solutions I unsubscribed from the thread. Now that I am following this thread again its great to see Eric is working on improving this 2 speed motor in ways that more speaks for the American market.

I think back to the early days when I bought my first direct drive hub motor kit, the things that bugged me the most with my first couple of builds we're the shape of the off the shelf battery packs that were available locally, the super super crappy connectors (hated those things from the moment I saw them ), and the bad combination of low voltage powered DD hubs which did not work like I had hoped for what I was wanting to do with my bike - I wasn't about to put an ill fitting small rear wheel to help the struggling DD hub either. I thought back then e-biking was fun but man there was a huge disconnect from what was for sale, and what I wanted to put on my bike. I wanted to have fun climbing hills with a bolt on solution but everything looked junky and worked like sh!t compared to our options now.

I say THANK YOU ERIC! What you are doing matters and I support you! I will continue to buy my stuff from you. I am sure the two speed hubby you have now will continue to evolve and I for one want to say I really like the way you are putting your specifications on things where you can, to address improvements in kits for the American (Canadian) market place.
Click to expand...
'

Hey wayne thanks a lot for your faith in us....

and merry xmas ;)


i think we got the bugs worked out but we need more testing to be sure....

can we send you one for testing? could you write a review if we did? i have a few other people in the community i am sending test kits who i expect to be fair.

i have never known a single geared hub motor to be reliable....not one including the mac... and i have been the biggest proponent on these forums for the bmc and mac motors for years...but they have never been reliable for me. not over 20 amps.

I think we addressed some important issues.... and its simple.... temp control and ramp ups.... i have no idea what the hell sam is talking about....that guy is way too smart for me..... but we have a true sine wave controller and all i know the entire package is testing fine.

thanks for the positive words... it is xmas time and postiive words make a difference.... the fact is we worked hard to bring this kit to market. it should be a celebration and i spent all Christmas day testing for a 4th day and shooting videos..... good news is no fried drive :)

I think this thing is solid but in need more testing to verify :)

also the guy who made the video that the troll etrike posted....we have been linking to that video since 2 weeks ago... he did an amazing job on that video and i would love to send one of our kits to him if he could test as well. that video was amazing.

ERIC
 
Hey guys i made the video showing the display we made just for this hub motor....

[youtube]x4MeBHJp45M[/youtube]


honestly i thought i was not stepping on anyones toes when we went to market with this kit .... i did not know Sam was planning on using this bike with some futre Balls on Ebikes business in australia and had no idea that us selling the kit here in the USA would effect him..... honestly....if i wanted to step on toes i would have done this entire package with a mac kit...or another larger geared hub motor kit......


but anyway we developed a package including motor, display and connectors on a hub motor it seemed no other dealer wanted .... if sam can make something better at a cheaper price i really applaud him. go for it ...actually i would really love that.

he seems like such a genius... i cant even spell right..... it would really inspire me to compete with someone like sam. i am like a 3rd grader ... he is like professor.

and i took the pressure and today i lowered our price by 50 dollars... so right now my margin on this is razor thin..... honestly i spend a lot on development costs...and had to buy 200 kits... and i am making very little money now on this kit.

but who carees.... i really hate money and could stand to lose some..... i will not be called a price gouger..... so i will just set a price impossible to compete with. merry xmas.

and tomorrow i will do the same thing for some of my other hub kits which really cant compare to this kit.... or the price we have on the bbs02 which i plan to lower even further next month.

so i will lower all my hub motor kit prices.... no problem .

Iam looking for an excuse to lower prices..... the lower the better for me personally..... but if the dealers want to accuse me of gouging...shit man...i wlll lower prices all day......

and all you couple of guys schilling go tomorrow and tell your bosses what i just said .... that i am perfectly willng to keep lowering prices on whatever they sale....and see if they tell you to keep picking on me.

seriously sam..... none of you guys want to compete with me when it comes to razor thin margins..... you better bring in amazon or hobby king and i am ready for them too.

i might be an idiot....but i got this thing called momentum...... i really believe in it... your an engineer and i cant break it down to you in mathematic terms but imagnine this snow field....and its like this snow ball thing.... i think of it like snow balls... i gotta keep it simple for myself.

i am just over here busting my ass building snom men.....sacrificing evertying ....

to build the components to make a better kit than anyone else has before and at a better price.... thats it....

and then i can slowly move onto the next step which is to putting it on a bike and have the most advanced hub motor bike ever....


simple simple thats how i think.

like a 3rd grader .... just think of me as a retard done good.
 
Eric I have no intention of selling this motor. I like your colour screen. You misunderstand my business model. I have about a dozen motors and my motivation is to get people out of cars and off oil. I will go back to my day job on Jan 3 and I intend to trial one of these so I can take it on my folding bike on the train. I think this motor is the solution to building a cheaper people's ebike!!!

Your display is unique and you should possibly start a new thread.

You don't need to lower any prices. Profit is a reward for adding value or taking risk.

I do think the basic kit holds the key to people commuting around the globe. I hope you will support any activities that makes ebiking more affordable to the masses as this standard kit could be a game changer for humanity and kudos to d8veh to bringing it to all our attention. Perhaps a group buy could make it even more useful to humanity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I wrote about this motor in positive terms two and a half years ago. Anyone...ANYONE...could have imported them to North America, and if you buy 100 units, you can have any mods you like. At a minimum, Eric has added a temp sensor and a color-display control panel that auto-shuts down the motor if it gets hot.

Paul added a temp sensor and thinner laminations to the MAC motor and was heralded as a visionary (I posted that it was a good thing), does anyone here appreciate Eric making this motor more available, or the fact he improved it (and will likely improve it further)?

June, 2014
https://www.electricbike.com/2-speed-e-matic-xiongda/
 
Posting here about OT rants that are in other threads is "off-topic" for this thread (The subject is the Xiongda 2-speed). You continue to stir unnecessary controversy. Erics posts were also removed, not just yours...and yet....you still sound hurt?

BTW, I own a Cycle Analyst V3, and I paid full price for it.
 
Green Machine said:
If amberwolf is willing i would like to give him a hub kit as a Christmas present if he agrees to give it a fair review.. .
Click to expand...
I was pointed to this thread, presumably for this^^

Do you think this system could handle either of my vehicles in it's "normal range of operation"? (without being a "test to destruction")

And how common is this issue
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490&start=1150#p1250309
of breaking stuff going backwards? Because I have to back the trike up all the time, while sitting on it (can't usually get off and lift the front wheel...impossible to lift a rear wheel). The bike I also have to back up a lot, and it's not possible for me to lift the front wheel while doing so. So if it can't be rolled backwards reliably without worry...I'd probably break it before even getting it out of the backyard.

Blipping the throttle for it while backing up could get complicated, especially when I am using the other motor in reverse to do that backing up (which I have to do more often than not).


It would need to be able to provide quite a bit of power/torque without destroying the gearing/etc., and do this repeatedly (about a dozen times in 2.5 miles for my work commute), even in summer heat where the system will start out at well over 100F (sometimes up to 140F or more if it's parked in the sun). Keep in mind that just my CrazyBike2 is around 220-250lbs, no rider (just the bike and stuff I carry every day). SB Cruiser trike is much heavier than that, even without me or the dogs. ;)

Since I need acceleration on the order of 4-6 seconds maximum from 0-20MPH on the flats, to avoid conflicts with other road traffic, that's quite a bit of power.

CrazyBike2 takes about 80-90A battery current to do that in ~4seconds, using two DD hubmotors (9C 2806 26" and Crystalyte HSR3548 20") and two 12Fet 40A controllers at WOT, with a 14s1p 20Ah EIG NMC battery.

SB Cruiser has in the past been able to do this in around 6 seconds, but is heavier now and takes longer (still testing to establish new baseline). (2 DD hubs, Crystalyte x5304 20" and 9C 2807 20", 2 12FET 30A controllers).


I could temporarily replace the front 26" wheel of CrazyBike2 with a front version of the Xiongda system, but can't do teh rear (unless it comes in a moped-tough 20" wheel; a typical ebike wheel build will fall apart or break pretty quickly on the rear of CB2; this has happened multiple times).

More practically for my own uses, as I use it much more, I could replace the front 26" wheel of SB Cruiser (presently unpowered) with a front version of the Xiongda system. Again, couldn't do the rear, same reasons as CB2 (and it would have to be a rim that can hold the Shinko tire presently used back there).

Either front wheel replaced would let me test it while riding around, once already acclerated to speed, but other than testing in my local neighborhood I couldn't probably use it to accelrate from a stop (if it could even do it at all).

I don't presently have another bike I can ride with any regularity, as "normal" bikes are too tall for me and I'm too likely to fall over and crash just trying to get on or off the bike.

I could build something to test it with, but I don't know how long that would take, and it would still be significantly heavier than any normal bicycle, placing more strain on the motor/controller system.

So I'm not sure I could perform a review on it that would be useful to other people with normal bikes, other than that if it survives *my* usage, it would almost certainly survive theirs. :lol:

If you're still wanting me to try it out, and are willing to risk it's destruction on the first ride ;) I'm willing to review it.


Keep in mind that I'd also open everything up and post pics in the review thread, and criticize everything I see just like usual. (including documentation and/or lack thereof)


(oh, and as for me and moderating, with the way people act to each other nowadays, not a chance, unless I'm given a free hand with NO complaints from anyone about who and what gets removed for being spam or OT or against one of the rules, as I would be very strict and harsh about it. I doubt you yourself would like the results, either. But you have no worries since no one would agree to it, and we'd lose a few vendors and their employees out of it).
 
Green Machine said:
Merry xmas everyone... and so suiting a christmas troll has joined "ETRIKE" from oregon with the british writing accent.

You know you guys wouldnt believe how much the typical dealer mark up is on a hub motor kit is. I could start listing factories and prices if you guys think that would be helpful...but it would just hurt other dealers and i dont need to do that.


The biggest mark ups are on the bigger high power motors.... to be honest this kit cost me more than a mxus 3000 or a Qs motor kit would.... the profit margin is higher and high speed fits our business model better....but i have chose to stay away from heavy and powerful direct drive motors because i think they are too heavy.... and other usa dealers are doing a fine job selling them so i can stay away from that.


This kit was expensive and time consuming to create...the motor is the easy part.... it is outfitting it with proper connectors, a true sine wave controller and a the most advanced ebike color display this country has ever seen that gets a little tricky.

Imagine i took this risk on a tiny little hub motor.... i could have done it with macs... or with bafangs 750w motor...but i decided to gamble and do it with a little bitty motor i love and think nobody else is offering anything like this in my country.

But sure enough haters gonna hate anyway.

Sure a factory might double cross me and offer this kit on alibaba...... but right now no ebike factory in china really wants to do that. And guess what it would be bad for everyone if they did.

It moves the industry forward i think when the bar is raised like this.... quality connectors, temp sensors. self diadnostic software, tiny controllers.... integrated quality display.... amp hour read out.....the way a hub motor kit should have been offered in this country and it never has.

i mentioned amp hour read out in there... dont know if you saw that...

But anyway we arent just one of those companies waiting for it to appear on alibaba.... that isnt us.... we are pushing for things to be made better and putting real work and money to make that happen.

well i believe it does good... or it might just get slandered enough for being overpriced unreliable junk that it starts to stick...and nobody buys it and every one writes off the company i started and it goes back to the way it was..... but i see that as never happening.

The cats out of the bag..... ;) and its rocking.

Anyway i did this video on what it takes to bring what i think is the most refined kit ever brought to the USA market. Sorry i was a bit upset that night because of all this crap talking .... and it comes off in the video....

its ok doubters and haters really inspire me to bring innovations like this faster to the market. I am gong to try to make it to the shop today so i can shoot you a video just of the color display.... the feature set you will really like.

[youtube]wZq0rnRzQsA[/youtube]
Click to expand...

Green Machine, I watched the vid, but failed to see evidence that you retained the auto shift of the original. Did you?
 
That would make it very difficult for me to use on my trike or bike; I already have too much to deal with just responding to traffic. Manual shifting would take attention away from that. The gears or motor or controller would probably get destroyed pretty quickly from lack of shifting.
 
yeah guys sorry...we are using our own controller and its manual shift only.... we had to choose.... mabye in next version we could have a choice for both?

amberwolf....

your appplication sounds like murder for this motor....

it is not high speed or high power..... i think it coudl get you to speed ...but it would be taxing that little motor to carry that much weight and its not very fast ....we would be dooming it to failure. you would probably hate it. if your bike weighs 250 pounds a large direct drive motor makes much more sense.


if you have a small bike you want to try it on let me now.... like 20 inch folder or something. even at 900 watts this is low power motor.....
 
Green Machine said:
if you have a small bike you want to try it on let me now.... like 20 inch folder or something. even at 900 watts this is low power motor.....
Click to expand...
Except as an emergency transport just to get me to work in case of all other transport failure, I don't have a use for "small bikes" anymore. ;)

The smallest I've been able to come up with so far that does what I need it to is CrazyBike2; whenever I sit down to design something smaller, by the time I add all the stuff I need it to have, plus the length it needs to be semirecumbent, it's not enough different from CB2 to be that much smaller or lighter.

If I were using new good strong thin cromoly tube, rather than recycled mild steel heavy thick tube, it would save *some* weight, but I doubt I could shed even 50lbs from it (and then it would still have my 170-180lbs to haul around).


It only takes about 500-600 watts to maintain CB2 at just under 20MPH, but it's closer to 800-1000 watts to do that for SB Cruiser's old version (still testing with the new one but cant' imagine it'd be less).
 
Green Machine said:
waynebergman said:
I took a break from this thread a year or so ago as it seemed like it was going to take a while for the early bugs to be worked out of this Chinese 2 speed.I sure liked the concept but figured it would take years until the bugs got fully worked out and as I was in search of mid drive solutions I unsubscribed from the thread. Now that I am following this thread again its great to see Eric is working on improving this 2 speed motor in ways that more speaks for the American market.

I think back to the early days when I bought my first direct drive hub motor kit, the things that bugged me the most with my first couple of builds we're the shape of the off the shelf battery packs that were available locally, the super super crappy connectors (hated those things from the moment I saw them ), and the bad combination of low voltage powered DD hubs which did not work like I had hoped for what I was wanting to do with my bike - I wasn't about to put an ill fitting small rear wheel to help the struggling DD hub either. I thought back then e-biking was fun but man there was a huge disconnect from what was for sale, and what I wanted to put on my bike. I wanted to have fun climbing hills with a bolt on solution but everything looked junky and worked like sh!t compared to our options now.

I say THANK YOU ERIC! What you are doing matters and I support you! I will continue to buy my stuff from you. I am sure the two speed hubby you have now will continue to evolve and I for one want to say I really like the way you are putting your specifications on things where you can, to address improvements in kits for the American (Canadian) market place.
Click to expand...
'

Hey wayne thanks a lot for your faith in us....

and merry xmas ;)


i think we got the bugs worked out but we need more testing to be sure....

can we send you one for testing? could you write a review if we did? i have a few other people in the community i am sending test kits who i expect to be fair.

i have never known a single geared hub motor to be reliable....not one including the mac... and i have been the biggest proponent on these forums for the bmc and mac motors for years...but they have never been reliable for me. not over 20 amps.

I think we addressed some important issues.... and its simple.... temp control and ramp ups.... i have no idea what the hell sam is talking about....that guy is way too smart for me..... but we have a true sine wave controller and all i know the entire package is testing fine.

thanks for the positive words... it is xmas time and postiive words make a difference.... the fact is we worked hard to bring this kit to market. it should be a celebration and i spent all Christmas day testing for a 4th day and shooting videos..... good news is no fried drive :)

I think this thing is solid but in need more testing to verify :)

also the guy who made the video that the troll etrike posted....we have been linking to that video since 2 weeks ago... he did an amazing job on that video and i would love to send one of our kits to him if he could test as well. that video was amazing.

ERIC
Click to expand...
You can send me one for testing if you like.I bought one from xiongda and it striped its gears after 13 months and 1400 miles.I offered to buy new gears but bonnie said they where having trouble with them and sent me new gears for free.I have a feeling this little spring has something to do with the clutch rattle and locking up.
a8a0976967af30fc9f90f9c2f7e9479c.jpg
Mine only had one the blueprint shows 3
6755c144dd7463fe2b291c139c29da96.jpg
when I asked xiongda why mine only had one they said that was fine.my motor was rattling the worst it had the day it broke.When I replaced the gears I decided to stretch the spring a bit.I have now put another 1300 miles on this motor,and the rattle has almost gone.
24ce41a9c6a00b16be48883f9f21e683.jpg
 
Were the new gears a different composite do you think Craiggor?

Bonnie confirmed the standard units packs an ordinary kunteng Kt3 screen and does auto shifting. I had a solution for auto shifting worked out but it seems its not needed.

Shipping is reasonable on 2pcs so I will grab a 36v and 48v to test. My neighbour wants a small build too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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