2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Hi all,

took me a while to read the whole thread, very interesting and informative... however still not sure about what to select, 2 speed Xiongda or Bafang SWX02...

Considering they are both almost having the same weight (3+ kg), and SWX02 having about 40 N.m torque (what I found, might be wrong), is there any other benefit from having Xiongda considering the added mechanical complexity? Would not be better a simpler one stage gear motor but with added power on motor side?

I understand that having two stages gearing box actually helps to run the motor closer to optimum rpm... still, would that compensate the added complexity and added dead weight in form of second gear set and clutch assembly? Will Xongda run more on same charge or be really better on low speed than SWX02?
 
parasole said:
Hi all,

took me a while to read the whole thread, very interesting and informative... however still not sure about what to select, 2 speed Xiongda or Bafang SWX02...

Considering they are both almost having the same weight (3+ kg), and SWX02 having about 40 N.m torque (what I found, might be wrong), is there any other benefit from having Xiongda considering the added mechanical complexity? Would not be better a simpler one stage gear motor but with added power on motor side?

I understand that having two stages gearing box actually helps to run the motor closer to optimum rpm... still, would that compensate the added complexity and added dead weight in form of second gear set and clutch assembly? Will Xongda run more on same charge or be really better on low speed than SWX02?
Click to expand...


One good reason for the Xiongda is efficiency. You can see it in the curves that Bonnie will send you, upon request. And in my experience, it's real. My BikeeE2 tandem recumbent, ~85#, with a 16" powered front hub can go almost 30 miles on a 720 w*h battery, stop and go. It never heats up, which I understand is from inefficiency. The 2 speed hubs do indeed have more moving parts than others, but if you read thru this thread, and relube upon delivery, you should get good service. I'm up to ~1000 miles, and some posters here have gone over 5000 miles. They also winch up hills much better than the equivalent single speed. The 1.8 underdrive is a real benefit
 
bigoilbob said:
parasole said:
Hi all,

took me a while to read the whole thread, very interesting and informative... however still not sure about what to select, 2 speed Xiongda or Bafang SWX02...

Considering they are both almost having the same weight (3+ kg), and SWX02 having about 40 N.m torque (what I found, might be wrong), is there any other benefit from having Xiongda considering the added mechanical complexity? Would not be better a simpler one stage gear motor but with added power on motor side?

I understand that having two stages gearing box actually helps to run the motor closer to optimum rpm... still, would that compensate the added complexity and added dead weight in form of second gear set and clutch assembly? Will Xongda run more on same charge or be really better on low speed than SWX02?
Click to expand...


One good reason for the Xiongda is efficiency. You can see it in the curves that Bonnie will send you, upon request. And in my experience, it's real. My BikeeE2 tandem recumbent, ~85#, with a 16" powered front hub can go almost 30 miles on a 720 w*h battery, stop and go. It never heats up, which I understand is from inefficiency. The 2 speed hubs do indeed have more moving parts than others, but if you read thru this thread, and relube upon delivery, you should get good service. I'm up to ~1000 miles, and some posters here have gone over 5000 miles. They also winch up hills much better than the equivalent single speed. The 1.8 underdrive is a real benefit
Click to expand...

just curious. what is your impression of the automatic mode, ideally in a bike rather than trike mode?

as many point out in a rolloff vs derailleur comparison, the big hassle that goes away is surprise stops, which require awkward downshifts while stationary, to get going again on derailleurs.

also not a problem w/ a 2 speed hub, but also is good that it would shift at ideal rpm.
 
bigoilbob said:
One good reason for the Xiongda is efficiency.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input bigoilbob, it looks to be the case, by having the possibility to keep the mottor revving in optimal rpm range we should gain in efficiency...
My question is if this wold be a good enough gain to accept added complexity and potential issues in case you roll back the bike while the clutch locks for some reason...

I would assume Xiongda should really shine in case of long hills where low gear is wery welcome...
 
I take care to not roll back the wheel. But I disagree with those that think it is a primary mode of failure. I think that if you look back a few pages in this thread and reread the good advice that is there on initial relubing (or if Bonnie can convince you that they recognized and resolved the problem with the dry lube they had been using), and you don't try to over amp, then you should have a long, happy life. One caveat. If you lace a 16" wheel, like me, then you need God's own strong spokes and professional lacing. DON'T go with Xiongda lacing and wheel, if they offer it. If you need to go this way, I'll dig up the name of the crotchety Texas spoke cutter I used.....
 
What controller are you using GM (I thought they needed specific to reverse) and is that the OEM display?

Nice. I have one i'm setting up but ordered with the KT controller and their display... ok for starters but this is interesting.
 
forgot to mention its a 20amp 48v sine wave controller made for this appication..... we have higo connectors...and a display made for us for this application.

One of my favorite parts which you can see from the test video is we has a temp sensor installed near the windings and you get a temp read out and it shuts power right when the motor hits 127 celcius....

I think this is a feature that more DIY controllers should have because it pushes the envelope of how much power you can push.
 
I wrote about the Xiongda 2-speed in 2014, and I'm surprised nobody has begun to import it to North America before, until now. I'm glad its finally available as an option to builders here...
 
i am very proud of this kit we put together....because it was just more than just importing some kits as is.....

we had a 20 amp sine wave controller made for this product that is tiny and capable of 52 volts (we also tested it at 72 volts)
.... we had higo waterpoof quick connect connectors fitted for the kit and made them bafang compatible so we can use all the custom throtttle options, ebrike cut offs etc, we have for bafang.

we had changes to the motor winding and also added a temp sensor inside the motor... we had high temp cut offs etc programmed into the controller.

and then we had dispay made just for this motor with our own interface....

I am really proud of the kit we came up with which we can proudly put the Luna name on it....

only by getting them out there will see how reliable the kit is etc.... but we are acid testing for 3 days straight and so far we havent fried one.....

when we are finished testing we will take the 2 motors apart we tested with and see if their is any signs of stress.
 
Oh, I see a rear version. Been missing a small hub for a folder since gears went soft and lack of replacements.

Will parts/gears be available for this Luna version?

https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/
 
So you talking about this here ...https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/ ?

Rear wheel Spacing 135 ?

Was that 48 volt battery in the video or 52 volt ? ( I do see you also tested it on 72 volts, on a up hill, However .. I am also interested in the different speeds on the flat ground between 48 volts / 52 volts / and 72 volts )
How many more Mph's for each step up in Voltage , on a flat testing ground ? )


36 Spoke Hole Flange ? or 32 Spoke Hole Flange ?



Have you put yet onto a bike that is 10 speed rear cassette ? ( Note I have a 10 speed cogset on the Q100 cst, and I only lose about 1/4 of a turn on the tight-ing nut , so it works fine , )

A way to test this is to take a 9 speed cassette and a 10 speed cassette, put on the 9 cassette and count the number of turns with the threaded tight-ing ring , then do the same with the 10 speed cassette, and subtract the difference, if very little there will be enough to keep on the 10 speed cassette.

I am starting to see some videos of testing, Good !









Green Machine said:
i am very proud of this kit we put together....because it was just more than just importing some kits as is.....

we had a 20 amp sine wave controller made for this product that is tiny and capable of 52 volts (we also tested it at 72 volts)
.... we had higo waterpoof quick connect connectors fitted for the kit and made them bafang compatible so we can use all the custom throtttle options, ebrike cut offs etc, we have for bafang.

we had changes to the motor winding and also added a temp sensor inside the motor... we had high temp cut offs etc programmed into the controller.

and then we had dispay made just for this motor with our own interface....

I am really proud of the kit we came up with which we can proudly put the Luna name on it....

only by getting them out there will see how reliable the kit is etc.... but we are acid testing for 3 days straight and so far we havent fried one.....

when we are finished testing we will take the 2 motors apart we tested with and see if their is any signs of stress.
Click to expand...
 
Good Video, Eric.

My Garmin Cycle Computer tells me what the Degree of Slope I am going up.

Knowing not only what you tested in this video, but what the Degree of Slope and How long the Run up that Slope is , Is important information for Those of Us that live in
the kind of area that I live in. Where I am living there are many different Routes to take for a ride, on each route there are different Degree's of Slope and different lengths of up the many hills.

Come up to where I am for the Best Testing you can do ( I have been to So-Cal although there are Hills around Big Bear/Crestline, and Idyllwild , they are mostly long with constant slopes ) . Around here there are many more different Degrees and Length's , many more . I will even help you test some of the motors, that you can bring up .

I have a Garmin you can use, and enough cameras for different shots, and many different mounts , ( so you can ride with both hands, and get other better shots for video's )

I am serious , I have been testing my hubs around here, to the point of having to repair one of them that I melted !

With so many hills around me , this is the perfect testing ground/area.

Besides you need an excuse to come back up to the Bay Area for a Visit anyway .







Green Machine said:
Hey guys we have been testing this motor at 72 volts and a 20 amp controller ...... it takes it like a champ.

[youtube]1JVfWSlaW5U[/youtube]
Click to expand...
 
yeah i was just telling my buddy yesterday how easy it was to torture test an ebike when i lived in san francisco....

I really miss sf also for the beauty of the rides.

LA really sucks for finding good hills....and for finding good trails to ride for beauty and fun.

i have been meaning to find some kind of app to measure the climb...

we can do it fairly easy... also i could probably figure out the length and the elevation change by just plugging the street into google maps.

but i will look into that garmin device you mentioned....

Its the type of hill that would smoke many geared hub motors that i know of...
 
Ykick said:
Oh, I see a rear version. Been missing a small hub for a folder since gears went soft and lack of replacements.

Will parts/gears be available for this Luna version?

https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/
Click to expand...


yes we will have replacement parts available soon....
 
ScooterMan101 said:
So you talking about this here ...https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/ ?

Rear wheel Spacing 135 ?

Was that 48 volt battery in the video or 52 volt ? ( I do see you also tested it on 72 volts, on a up hill, However .. I am also interested in the different speeds on the flat ground between 48 volts / 52 volts / and 72 volts )
How many more Mph's for each step up in Voltage , on a flat testing ground ? )


36 Spoke Hole Flange ? or 32 Spoke Hole Flange ?



Have you put yet onto a bike that is 10 speed rear cassette ? ( Note I have a 10 speed cogset on the Q100 cst, and I only lose about 1/4 of a turn on the tight-ing nut , so it works fine , )

A way to test this is to take a 9 speed cassette and a 10 speed cassette, put on the 9 cassette and count the number of turns with the threaded tight-ing ring , then do the same with the 10 speed cassette, and subtract the difference, if very little there will be enough to keep on the 10 speed cassette.

I am starting to see some videos of testing, Good !









Green Machine said:
i am very proud of this kit we put together....because it was just more than just importing some kits as is.....

we had a 20 amp sine wave controller made for this product that is tiny and capable of 52 volts (we also tested it at 72 volts)
.... we had higo waterpoof quick connect connectors fitted for the kit and made them bafang compatible so we can use all the custom throtttle options, ebrike cut offs etc, we have for bafang.

we had changes to the motor winding and also added a temp sensor inside the motor... we had high temp cut offs etc programmed into the controller.

and then we had dispay made just for this motor with our own interface....

I am really proud of the kit we came up with which we can proudly put the Luna name on it....

only by getting them out there will see how reliable the kit is etc.... but we are acid testing for 3 days straight and so far we havent fried one.....

when we are finished testing we will take the 2 motors apart we tested with and see if their is any signs of stress.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

In the last hill climb of the video we are testing at 72 volts (last minute of video).... and it seems to do very well.... we measured the battery later to be 82 volts so we were actually pulling 1600 watts. The color display reads a maximum of 56.4... . i need to try to progam the display for higher voltages and see if it fixes this bug.

we hit high temp cut off at 127 celcius but i am confident that if i would have been peddling more this cut off would not have happened.


I thought i put subtitles in the video explaining this...maybe they did not show up in final video i will check.
 
I saw in the Video where you used one voltage 48 or was it 52, and where you later used a 72 volt battery, and both times where the motor shut off while going up , when it reached 127 Degrees C.
Yes that was in the Video and I saw it.

Another test is in order,

For me to see if I can keep up with the local , Really Serious, Really Fit, and Really Competitive , Riders in my area I am interested in a test , not on a granny trike,
on
A Road bike like mine, ( Hint )
at the Different voltages , 48/52/72 to see what the speed is .

That is a different test, and also very important for me, for where I ride, and the riders I would be able / or not / to ride with.

I want to test that Hub .
 
Eric,

Great that you are offering it with a sine wave controller. Climbing that steep hill in low it sounded pretty loud, but I know different microphones pick up sound louder than reality. How would you classify the motor sound in normal use on level ground in high gear using PAS?

Looks like a great new product.

Lorrin
 
leelorr said:
Eric,

Great that you are offering it with a sine wave controller. Climbing that steep hill in low it sounded pretty loud, but I know different microphones pick up sound louder than reality. How would you classify the motor sound in normal use on level ground in high gear using PAS?

Looks like a great new product.

Lorrin
Click to expand...

Lorrin,

You know i would say it was a bit louder than the bbshds i am use to.... about the same noise level as a mac or other geared hub motor.... pretty quiet but definitely not silent... you can hear the whine for sure....
 
There are a few rumors going around about unreliability in this motor a few years back when people first experimented with it.

Has anyone with real experience with this motor experienced any failures?

I know all geared hub motors become unreliable once you start overvolting and amping them up....

but so far even at 1600 watts this motor has seemed pretty solid in our tests.

WE are testing tomorrow on a bike and a trike ;)
 
Problems with reversing trikes. A seemingly non issue if looked at closely for the suggested use. No rumor. Just a different application.
 
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