2 trillion/6 trillion

[JackFlorey]

America became Socialist today, so some say. . . .some anonymous people just print us money and charge us interest for life because if the money makers charge interest, its impossible to pay back.

Been that way since 1971. Nothing new there.

the problem is the interest being charged. that's a big problem for such a large amount of money. how in the world can the middle class ever pay it off, its kind of like your mortgage payment just doubled but your wage remained the same.

"Middle class" doesn't have to pay it off.

so the world gets hammered because of a virus and the central bankers get richer and we get poorer. how does everybody feel about this?

For the past 50 years, every quintile in the US except for the bottom 20% have had their real income go up. (And the bottom 20% had it stay steady.) So while there is definitely a problem with the income gap, it's also not true that "central bankers get richer and everyone else gets poorer." The vast majority of Americans are getting richer.

Is it all a house of cards? Definitely. But it's a house of cards that has made 80% of the people in the US more and more money over the decades - which is why we support it.

 

[goatman]

Americans do it because there dollar is backed by the US military and its also the global trade currency. You cant just print print print and expect the rest of the world to just along with it anymore and theyre not, thinks BRICS and the silk road and settle international trade in other currencies.

America might support it but there will be heavy price to pay when the rest of the world doesn't anymore.

anyone here think America is rapidly losing its credibility, the whole world is watching it collapse, no?

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

...
I don't really know all that much about economics, but then again, neither does anyone really :?

That's by design. Economics is an exact science and isn't hard to understand but what we have today isn't really economics, economology would be a more fitting title. We're not supposed to understand it and instead put all our (blind) faith in its most devout followers. In the words of Henry Ford "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

Germanies economic recovery between the great depression and WW2 was the greatest economic achievement of our age and the key figure behind it was Hjalmar Schacht. He's a more significant figure in economics than Keynes or Hayek yet his name is very rarely heard. Much of that is due to the Nazi connection (he was never a member and was totally against rearmament) but imo it's mostly because his principles where very easy to understand. His autobiography is titled "The Magic of Money" and there are plenty of free translations on the net, a fairly easy read and very relevant to the times we live in.

This interests me a little- I'm obviously skeptical, but then I remember that huge segments of our (and Canada's) industries are basically monopolized into the "appearance" of freedom of choice and I hold my tongue. I'll read into him a little; I disagree Economics is "easily" understood, but since much of it is human emotion and I'm on a forum of people upcycling laptop batteries and treadmill motors into methods of transportation well...

anyone here think America is rapidly losing its credibility, the whole world is watching it collapse, no?

Oh god yes; with over what, 700 firings in the past 3 years and half the cabinet seats empty, there's whole segments of the American government that weren't working even before COVID.

the problem is the interest being charged. that's a big problem for such a large amount of money. how in the world can the middle class ever pay it off, its kind of like your mortgage payment just doubled but your wage remained the same.

"Middle class" doesn't have to pay it off.

Isn't the Trumpbucks in the form of a loan to be paid off in 2021/2022? Pretty diabolical to set that within an (ostensibly) future democratic president's office.

 

[JackFlorey]

Isn't the Trumpbucks in the form of a loan to be paid off in 2021/2022? Pretty diabolical to set that within an (ostensibly) future democratic president's office.

All deficit spending is, in a way, a "loan to be paid off." But keep in mind that most of that debt is held by Americans, in the form of T-bills and similar instruments. So yes, the government will have to pay it off - by sending money to Americans.

(If that sounds like the world's largest Ponzi scheme, it absolutely is. They keep doing it because so far it's been working.)

 

[Balmorhea]

Isn't the Trumpbucks in the form of a loan to be paid off in 2021/2022? Pretty diabolical to set that within an (ostensibly) future democratic president's office.

We know the drill by now. Repugs get all coked up, take the grocery money to bet on horses, then drunkenly drive the American economy into a lamppost. Then the Dems come in and have to clean up the mess, make amends with the landlord, work out a payment plan, join a carpool, etc. (While sneaking down to the track whenever they can, to bet the grocery money on horses.)

 

[Dauntless]

Isn't the Trumpbucks in the form of a loan to be paid off in 2021/2022? Pretty diabolical to set that within an (ostensibly) future democratic president's office.

We know the drill . . .all coked up, take the grocery money to bet on horses, then drunkenly drive the American economy into a lamppost.

You mean the river, don't you? Off the bridge, leaving the passenger to die. Oh wait, that's a democrat.

Then the Dems come in and . . . .

. . . .Do nothing like you describe. After railing and railing about 20 years of deficits for Reagan and the two Bushes, Obama tops any of them in ONE TERM, with plenty of help from the rest of the party, then tops all three combined in two. The worst screw ups in the history of the country. Disaster after disaster. Shame upon shame. Maybe you won't live to see another Democrat as president because of that. It would serve them right. But there are those of us who DO miss the Bill Clinton years. Even if none of you are good enough to.

 

[markz]

Corrupt Bill Clinton
Aside the male urges and the corrupt "charity"
The man who fried a mentally disabled lobotomized person, to be "tough on crime"

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bill-clinton-rickey-rector-death-penalty-execution-crime-racism/

QUOTE
It was an inconvenient moment for Ricky Ray Rector’s life to depend on Bill Clinton’s mercy. As Rector’s execution date approached in 1992, Clinton was “fighting for his political life.” The New Hampshire Democratic primary was about to be held, and Clinton was facing a scandal that threatened to derail his presidential candidacy. An Arkansas woman named Gennifer Flowers had come forward to allege that she and the governor had engaged in a twelve-year affair, and that she had audio tapes to prove it. In a close race against Massachusetts senator Paul Tsongas, Clinton was unsure whether he could withstand the heat from the Flowers allegations, and felt he could not afford to take political risks.

Clinton had also spent a great deal of energy trying to position himself as a “tough on crime”
QUOTE END

 

[goatman]

didn't the Chinese finance Bills election? talk about foreign governments meddling in elections

 

[Dauntless]

No, Bill only spent about $21 million on his campaign, even came millions short of that and had much unpaid. It was Al Gore who was caught on a government phone (In the White House??) talking to Chinese donors. But that doesn't mean he got all that much money from them in 2000.

The big money was what the Chinese gave O Duce in 2008.