2005 Kona Stinky GNG 1.0 build (mid-drive Stink-E) ABANDONED

[skyungjae]

Well, this is where things are now. So far the thread locker is holding the left crank on well. Also, my Bionicon C.Guide came. Here are some pictures installed. I'll test ride it sometime this coming weekend. It's going to see a flight of stairs tomorrow. :wink:

Well, if the left crank doesn't loosen and the chain stays on that should be it for a while. Wish me luck! :lol:

 

[skyungjae]

Failed the stair test. It may do better on the trails, but I gotta rig up some sort of upper chain guide.

 

[skyungjae]

Well, now I'm on the search for some sort of "tube mounted" upper chain guide that won't interfere with my rear suspension. It doesn't look like much will clear it unless I move my rear damper's mounting point (don't want to do, like the way it rides now).

I guess the type of riding I do is a little more extreme than most. :lol: I'm not taking massive jumps, but the terrain can get a bit technical and rough at high speeds. This makes me wonder if mid-drive systems aren't up to the task of primary off road duty yet.

Well, there's the EGO kit which appears to be using ECHO ISIS freewheel cranks. They claim they can use BB mount upper and lower chain guides. The only issue is the massive price tag that goes with that kit.

$ to $, I could have gone with a Crystalyte Hub set up for probably about the same amount of money, or less, invested in this project.

Despite the little regrets I have here and there along this journey, I'm am rather happy with my set up. The bent BB isn't noticeable, and the thread locker is doing its job by keeping the left crank on. Once the chain issue is taken care of (only applies to rough trails/stairs/etc), I'll probably be done for the most part.

If I can free up some funds, I'll probably pursue further "guess and test" on ISIS freewheel cranks and BB's. The only issue is it doesn't really contribute too well to others that are planning to go down the same road with the plug and play mindset (my approach). Using an ISIS freewheel crank and BB would require removal of the support bearing in the GNG chainring set up or a custom one altogether (due to spindle diameter being much thicker).

Anyhow, those are my Monday, pre-work, thoughts on the matter. Have a great week everyone!

 

[skyungjae]

Won this e*thirteen chain guides on eBay for $65 shipped. Not bad since they're about $100 new. Hopefully it ships out today and has no problem clearing the spring on my rear suspension.

 

[AmpeD]

Hi, i don't have a stinky but am considering getting one and want to ask what are the dimensions and angles of the frame triangle ? is it possible to mount batteries in there?

 

[skyungjae]

Hi, i don't have a stinky but am considering getting one and want to ask what are the dimensions and angles of the frame triangle ? is it possible to mount batteries in there?

It depends on the year and size (S, M, L). What do you plan on using the bike for?

The Stinky is an affordable massive suspension travel bike, but it's also like 45-50lbs. The suspension and weight of the bike doesn't make it all that ideal to be a speed demon.

If you want a lot of triangle-estate for batteries mounted in the frame, the Kona Kikapu is a good option.

Of course, it's not going to have the same suspension travel, but it will be lighter. ...also... a bit harder to find.

 

[skyungjae]

Well, I feel dumb. I probably should have downloaded the Bantam BC6 manual sooner. Apparently, I haven't been charging my batteries up all the way. My Turnigy Mega 400w v2 was calibrated for a 5000mAh battery, so it would stop at that capacity or at the 120 minute safety timer. That being said, at 2.0A, trying to parallel charge and balance all 5 packs, I would hit the 2 hour time limit before my batteries were fully charged. At first I thought one of the cells in the pack were dead, but they were all okay. That led to more pressing of buttons and looking at the timers and safety features. Anyhow, all is remedied and I've essentially doubled the distance I can travel.

 

[Rollodo]

Hey man, please keep us updated with the battery performance. Though I already got the 52V A123 pouch cells from Cellman some time ago, they're really heavy and throw the bike off balance easily. Also I'm looking to get this GNG kit myself, as with my hilly and bumpy terrain here in Brooklyn, my geared Mac 1000W may not be that feasible of a setup; plus I've got a little-grown-big problem with one of its nylon gears recently.

 

[skyungjae]

Hey man, please keep us updated with the battery performance. Though I already got the 52V A123 pouch cells from Cellman some time ago, they're really heavy and throw the bike off balance easily. Also I'm looking to get this GNG kit myself, as with my hilly and bumpy terrain here in Brooklyn, my geared Mac 1000W may not be that feasible of a setup; plus I've got a little-grown-big problem with one of its nylon gears recently.

How much do you pedal? I'm the type of guy who only uses the battery when the going gets kinda tough. That being said, I pedal quite a bit. On today's ride, much like my previous ones, I started off at 49.9v on the Cycle Analyst. When I finished the ride the CA read 48.6v and I used 2.363Ah. Total distance according to CA was 11.75 miles, but that's a bit off since I didn't actually measure the circumference of the tire.

 

[skyungjae]

Got the e*thirteen chain guide today. It's certainly a tight fit and I scratched my frame tube installing it. I also had to remove the bash guard because the screws would touch the the chain guide. Here are the pictures:

Stair test tomorrow!

 

[skyungjae]

Stair test... SUCCESS!!!

Those of you using a full suspension gng mid drive, with the chain jumping off on violent terrain/jumps, may be able to use a spare front derailleur instead of an upper chain guide.

 

[Rollodo]

Hey man, please keep us updated with the battery performance. Though I already got the 52V A123 pouch cells from Cellman some time ago, they're really heavy and throw the bike off balance easily. Also I'm looking to get this GNG kit myself, as with my hilly and bumpy terrain here in Brooklyn, my geared Mac 1000W may not be that feasible of a setup; plus I've got a little-grown-big problem with one of its nylon gears recently.

How much do you pedal? I'm the type of guy who only uses the battery when the going gets kinda tough. That being said, I pedal quite a bit. On today's ride, much like my previous ones, I started off at 49.9v on the Cycle Analyst. When I finished the ride the CA read 48.6v and I used 2.363Ah. Total distance according to CA was 11.75 miles, but that's a bit off since I didn't actually measure the circumference of the tire.

Hey, I was primarily referring to the longevity of those packs - basically, the price-value ratio. I find it that I actually don't need that much discharge, with an all-time maximum of 53 Amps being pulled from the MAC. So, if I can save some weight on the C rating, I think it should be okay. Plus, with the possibility of a mid-drive (like GNG or whatever), it may be that it'll be pulling even less amps for the same performance.

But I guess the weight itself isn't as big of an issue as its distribution - right now the battery is in my rear bag. Having a motor in the rear wheel, the battery pack on the rear rack, plus being 240 lbs as it is, puts a considerable stress on the rear of the bike. Right now if I lift the front of the bike, the weight misbalance is very noticeable, allowing me to effortlessly rotate the entire bike 360 degrees with one hand - meaning it's the rear that pushes this much weight into the ground. If I could find a decent solid pouch holder (I've even tried dog bags, nope) - maybe bent aluminum or some other sturdy metal, I can see securing it on the top tube of my Paratrooper, balancing out the forces. Plus, with a mid-drive like GNG, even less stress is put on any particular end of the bike. I could look into something that another member posted recently with his GNG on Lipos and putting them on rain gutters (or whatever that was).

 

[skyungjae]

Hey, I was primarily referring to the longevity of those packs - basically, the price-value ratio. I find it that I actually don't need that much discharge, with an all-time maximum of 53 Amps being pulled from the MAC. So, if I can save some weight on the C rating, I think it should be okay. Plus, with the possibility of a mid-drive (like GNG or whatever), it may be that it'll be pulling even less amps for the same performance.

But I guess the weight itself isn't as big of an issue as its distribution - right now the battery is in my rear bag. Having a motor in the rear wheel, the battery pack on the rear rack, plus being 240 lbs as it is, puts a considerable stress on the rear of the bike. Right now if I lift the front of the bike, the weight misbalance is very noticeable, allowing me to effortlessly rotate the entire bike 360 degrees with one hand - meaning it's the rear that pushes this much weight into the ground. If I could find a decent solid pouch holder (I've even tried dog bags, nope) - maybe bent aluminum or some other sturdy metal, I can see securing it on the top tube of my Paratrooper, balancing out the forces. Plus, with a mid-drive like GNG, even less stress is put on any particular end of the bike. I could look into something that another member posted recently with his GNG on Lipos and putting them on rain gutters (or whatever that was).

Well, I'll keep you updated on how the packs hold up over time. I've only been using them for about 2 months with a rather inconsistent riding style due to hobby and terrain. It also doesn't help that I haven't been charging them to capacity for the whole time I've owned them (except maybe the initial charge). Anyhow, we'll see how they perform after several hundred charge cycles. I initially intended on replacing them with LiPos somewhere down the line, but I may stick with LiFePO4.

As for the GNG, I do love the placement of the kit, and that I don't have to use more than 20A and huge wires. However, it does have quite a few weaknesses from the get go that you'll potentially have to remedy yourself at some point. The belt drive, weak BB spindle, and weak freewheel crank arm threads are just a few weak links that other members with the GNG kit have run into. The initial cost of about $400, give or take depending on shipping, is rather deceiving when you end up replacing almost everything on the kit. :lol:

 

[skyungjae]

This is the stair test. The last two flights of stairs are steeper, and I'm working my way to jumping the entire last flight. Wish me luck.

 

[dbaker]

Looks like you go up as well as down the stairs 8)

 

[skyungjae]

Looks like you go up as well as down the stairs 8)

I actually haven't tried going up the stairs yet. I really should though. When I get on the train, I unplug my battery and stuff the wires into the pack. I don't bother powering back up because work is, pretty much, across the street from Union Station.

I will do the reverse stair test next week on my way into work.

 

[pendragon8000]

Nice work. Just wondering how the stock belt is holding up? Many ppl switch it for chain 'cos it fails after a short time.

 

[skyungjae]

Nice work. Just wondering how the stock belt is holding up? Many ppl switch it for chain 'cos it fails after a short time.

The stock belt is holding up great. No missing teeth or excessive signs of wear. The writing on the outside of the belt is coming off where it makes contact with the tensioner, but that's it.

I usually operate it continuously in the 200-500W range on the while pedaling make full use of my 9 speed cassette. I don't romp on the throttle at full output for long periods of time or jerk the throttle for wheelies. I do it, but only sparingly. Surprisingly, I don't need to use full throttle even going up the steepest of hills in my area. I'm sure if I was pushing 500-peak power consistently for long periods of time or doing wheelies, I'd be telling a different story. Right now it looks tip top though. Maybe it'll snap before i see any significant signs of wear or failure like teeth disappearing. :?

 

[skyungjae]

It appears Cyclone has ISIS upgrade kits for their mid drive systems. I was able to get in touch with Paco in Taiwan, and he's sending me a 140mm ISIS Bottom Bracket and ISIS freewheel cranks for $98 shipped to the US (I'm sacrificing the intake on my car for this).

More info here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47618&start=75#p712879

I figured this was too good of a deal to pass up. Had I gone with the 128mm Truvativ Giga DH BB and some another brand of ISIS trial cranks, I could have spent double. Well, let's hope this works out.

I'm not looking forward to removing those crank bolts I very generously applied thread locker to. It's been holding up rather well. On Monday I went on this ride:

I was able to complete it in 57 minutes (of course I could have done it much quicker had there been no dog walkers, joggers, other bikers, horses, and street lights). There are a handful of jumps and rough downhills and nothing broke down! I suppose this is a milestone. I also started with 10 miles on the ODO, 49v, and about 2.5Ah used. When I finished, I was around 45.5v and close to 5.5Ah used.

I did a good cleaning of everything after the ride. I brushed off all the dirt, cleaned/lubed the chain, cleaned the freewheels/applied freewheel oil, cleaned/re-greased the bearings. It's so much smoother and quieter now. As for the belt, it's still holding up with no signs of excessive wear.

Bike and battery are kicking butt, but there's still that one thing bothering me. Typically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... I consider the bent BB spindle broke. :wink:

 

[skyungjae]

This past Thursday I let my friend ride my Stink-E on the same ride as the previous post. It was doing great until about 8.5 miles in when the chain from the jackshaft freewheel to the 48T outer chain began to fall off. It fell off about 3 times before I re-arranged the washers on the chain tensioner. After that, it made it all the way into my neighborhood until the chain fell off again.

I couldn't figure out what was causing the problem, but when I started spinning the cranks backwards, I noticed rough spots on the crank freewheel. I cleaned up both freewheels again and added some more gear oil. I couldn't get the rough spots out, but it seemed to work fine. The rough spots do cause the chain ring to wobble... not good.

Anyhow, I decided to ride the Anaheim Hills chutes which is much more extreme than the Fullerton Loop. Here, you're basically riding off boulders on rapid descent single tracks with tight corners. There were some sections that were too sketchy for me to ride down... I was put to shame as my friend's cousin's girlfriend was able to ride down no problem in her XC 29er as I walked my Stink-E down. Regardless, it was a lot of fun especially going back up hill. :lol: Toward the end of the ride, there were more extreme downhill sections and my confidence level had gone up as well. That's when the chain fell off like in the ride the day before. I decided to leave it off for the remainder of the ride. I'm not entirely sure why it fell of this time since I don't think I was throttling or pedaling.

My bike was too heavy to put on the bike rack.

Where I came from...

Where I went...

What I've learned so far... these Dicta made front freewheels suck when it comes to sand. Well, my White Industries ENO should get here before my ISIS BB and cranks. Hopefully it holds up better to these dusty Southern California trails.

 

[skyungjae]

My Cyclone 140mm ISIS BB and crank arms came today.

I'm still waiting on my White Industries ENO and new pedals. Hopefully I'll be able to put everything together this coming weekend.

 

[skyungjae]

So close... yet so far...

The lock ring does fit fine on the 140mm ISIS BB from Cyclone... I just ran into one problem with the Park Tool BBT-22... it doesn't freaking fit over the longer ISIS spindle. (-_-!)

This is pretty much where I'm stuck at. That's the furthest I could thread it on with slick gloves. Getting off work at 6:00 pm (18:00 for the rest of you folk :wink: ) will make it difficult for me to get the BBT-32 and replacement domed hex bolts I need for the White Industries ENO.

My El Moro Canyon ride may have to be cancelled.

 

[skyungjae]

My friend was kind enough to pick up the BBT-32 yesterday. I was able to get the Cyclone ISIS BB, freewheeling crank, and White Industries ENO on. I placed the chain ring on the outside of the freewheel like in the GNG stock set up, and used a freewheel spacer on the drive side bottom bracket to get the chain line to match up.

Today was trial by fire at El Morro, Crystal Cove State Park. After about 15 miles of riding, about half single track, the new set up worked flawlessly. I used up about 4.5Ah climbing the hills there. There was a long, steep downhill fire road toward the end with large jumps spaced about 30 meters apart. It was a nice feeling to fly, ride back up with ease, and fly back down getting pretty decent air. The four other people with me were jealous. :wink:

Normally I post pictures, but my wife's work phone was disconnected so she took mine.

I'll try to make it back soon, hopefully before summer, and take some photos and video of the jumps and crazy downhill single track sections.

Zero Failures!!!

 

[pendragon8000]

Great to see its all working. Bring on the VIDEOS!

 

[skyungjae]

Well, this is my bike in its final form. The Cyclone 140mm ISIS BB and ISIS freewheeling cranks have been holding up great!

I'll try to get some, non-boring, footage sometime soon.