35 MPH cruise, 10 mile range, looking for tips

dogman said:
Pick a phase order, then play with halls combinations. One should be it.

I just tried with my phase wires at B-B, Y-G, G-Y:

Halls (controller - motor)
B - B
G - Y
Y -G
-------
Runs in reverse

B - Y
G - B
Y - G
-------
Motor shutters in place

B - G
G - Y
Y - B
-------
Motor shutters in place

B - G
G - B
Y - Y
-------
Motor clicks

B - Y
G - G
Y - B
------
Motor runs forward, but power is only applied in bursts


So with the last hall combo, the motor runs in the right direction, but the power comes on for a half second, off for a second or two, back on, back off... Still a hall/phase issue, or does that point to a controller problem?

I checked my halls with a voltmeter and when I turned the wheel by hand they varied up to 5v, so figured they are ok.

Thanks!
 
What motor do you have? Does it look like this?
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=28
Note how the wires come out of it.
 
wesnewell said:
What motor do you have? Does it look like this?
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=28
Note how the wires come out of it.

Right, it is the Golden Motor version of that, the HBS48R. Since I bought the bare motor it did not have the freewheel installed, but did already have the spacers installed on the wire side. GM tech support said the wires come out of the non-gear side, as did one of the gents on the GM forums...
 
It was my CA!!! I unhooked the CA and she spins up (under no load at least) with phases at BB, YG, GY and halls at BY, GG, YB.

So time to check the CA settings, wire everything back together and see what's shaking!
 
Well the wires on my HBS-48V1000W(serial number) motor come out the freewheel side. On my HBS-48V500W they came out the opposite side. Made on a different week maybe. I don't use a CA either. On original controller, motor wires were color matched. Good luck.
 
Thanks again for all the help Wes! It looks like the speed calculation on my CA is all out of whack and the max speed limiter was kicking in. Looks like it is off by a factor of about 10!

So I unplugged it and went for a quick spin around the block. WOW! The low speed growl was a bit disconcerting, but I read about it here before so was not all that worried. Once up and moving, she whooshed along. I was surprised by the torque, I was expecting a lot less from the way it was described. No wheelie popper, but moved me along at 200 lbs well, certainly better than my Mongoose does.

With the CA out of commission I turned on the GPS on my phone. We hit 47 MPH on a straight. I could probably have squeezed out 50 in a racer's tuck and more road, but that was already faster than I had planned on pushing for the shakedown ride. Plus that is already 20 MPH faster than the neighborhood speed limit and no need to melt her down yet. Wow, what a ride! There is still some wiring cleanup to be done and maybe work on some better airflow for the controller, but happy so far!

I went with a 80 degree layback seat post. In the near future I want to replace it with I think a 60 degree and set it down a little further. The riding position is nice and comfy, though.
View attachment 5

View attachment 4

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The battery disconnect switch is under the batteries...
Assembled_right_scaled.jpg

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The round canister near the top bar is just a housing for an on/off switch for the controller. I did not have anything handy so my wife donated a spice tin.
Assembled_top_scaled.jpg
 
Figured out the CA speed sensor issue, the number of poles under Advanced Setup defaulted to 1. The GM site says the 901 has 46 poles but when set to 46 the speed was way too low. I cut it in half to 23 and it seems pretty close to my phone GPS, so we will see how it averages out.

Took a short ride to Walgreens to pick up some stuff for the wife, eBike grin was in full effect :D
 
FWIW, Justin at ebikes.ca said that the CA-DP should have defaulted to 23 poles so I should not have seen the issue in the first place, but stuff happens...

Put about 20 more miles on the bike in the past few days, so much fun. I am getting a LOT of low speed resonance under 20 MPH. I checked my spokes and have a couple that are pretty loose. My LBS guy said to come back after a few miles to have him tighten then again, so the two that are really loose I am going to tighten myself, then ride into town and have them finish the job. I am hoping that getting the tensions up will help calm down the resonance. I assume it will since the resonance got noticeably worse over the past few days.

It is pretty scary watching the current draw on the CA. The controller is set to 40A and I see a max amp draw of 40 - 41 amps through the CA, over 3600W to the motor! That is around 35 MPH and accelerating at full throttle, I will be sure to not spend too much time trying to fly in the 40s or above. My goal was a 35 MPH cruiser, with bursts higher, and at least a 10 mile range. This setup does exactly that.

Thanks again for all the help fellas!

Made a few aesthetic changes yesterday, lowered the seat some more, flipped the bars upside down (cheesy boardtracker wannabe trick). I plan on getting some no-rise pullback bars soon (probably the Nitto Promenade B617), but the flipped bars will have to do for now, still pretty comfy and without the ape hanger look.

Flipped_front_scaled.jpg

Flipped_right_front_scaled.jpg

Flipped_right_rear_scaled.jpg

Flipped_rear_scaled.jpg
 
Is there any sort of foam or cushion around your batteries? Are you planning on putting a rigid barrier around your batteries?
 
bowlofsalad said:
Is there any sort of foam or cushion around your batteries? Are you planning on putting a rigid barrier around your batteries?

Just a cushion of air? The batteries are mounted with about 0.25" of space around them, so they are not rubbing against each other. The wires touch them, but I figure I will be long dead and gone before the wires rub through the plastic casing or the wire silicon jackets themselves get worn through.

I do plan on making a protective covering, though. That is next on the list.
 
While I am glad to hear that you intend to make a protective cover. I should have asked my question differently. Are the zip ties directly against your batteries?
 
bowlofsalad said:
While I am glad to hear that you intend to make a protective cover. I should have asked my question differently. Are the zip ties directly against your batteries?

Ah, I see. Yes, they are holding the hard case lipos to the velcro. The lipos stay without the zip ties, but move a bit. If they were NOT the hard case lipos, I would not have used that method.

Do you think it is an issue? For the soft case lipos, I would be worried.
 
I assume you mean with this case you speak of, are the zip ties an issue? I doubt it. So long as the case doesn't have any play around the batteries, meaning the battery isn't bouncing around against the shell around the battery, you might be ok.

I am sure you've come to this conclusion, but zip ties directly against your battery would be very bad. I think that lipo is an excesively dangerous chemistry. Perhaps the most dangerous aspect about lipo is that if they get beaten up too much or something similar, they can catch on fire suddenly without much warning and without being charged or discharged at the time. Some people have had their bikes/batteries or worse light on fire while the bike was just sitting around. This hard thing to do is to check packs well for getting beat up, becoming puffy and so on because having them sealed from the outside often means it is difficult to gain immediate access to your batteries.

If you haven't already done so, I'd consider looking into some versions of fire proofing/resisting (so if something does happen, you have time to put the fire out without setting other things aflame) your charging area and setting up linked smoke alarms (so you can avoid dieing in a fire or losing your home).

Sorry if this is repeated information for you, some of this isn't old news for everyone and is knowledge worth echoing to anyone using lipo.
 
I appreciate the words of warning! I do not mind taking the extra care and precautions with lipo myself, but were I to build a bike for someone else, a friend, my wife, my child, it would definitely not be lipo. In fact, for my next build I will likely use something more forgiving as well. I know that with these levels of power you have to be careful no matter the chemistry, but the other alternatives do seem less touchy.

The lipo packs I am using are the Turnigy 4s hardcase lipos, so instead of coming shrinkwrapped they come encased in a plastic shell. So no bouncing around as the shell is pre-installed around the cells. So there is no play between the battery and case, and they are firmly mounted to the mounting board. I charge the batteries in our detached garage, away from combustibles. I like the idea of a fire blanket over the bike when charging. I have the garage PC controlling the charger, so I remote desktop into that machine to monitor the charging from the comfort of my home office. Even though it is set to stop charging automatically at 90%, I still like to keep an eye on it.

I do need to add a smoke detector out there though, thanks for the reminder!
 
Fellow user Floont recently suffered a house fire from HobbyKing Lipo that cost him his e-bike, his truck, his house, and injuries to his pet. This is serious stuff and you should take precautions.

I want to take this moment to observe that while your bike is not what I'd build for myself, I really like the look of it.

Dig this handlebar for $35, by the way.
 
Thank you for the compliment Chalo, and that bar is quite nice. As I was tightening the 4 spokes that were severely loose today I kept thinking back on your "Lincoln Log spoke" comments and how tension can be an issue... sigh... LOL

I am currently charging the batteries in our detached garage (20 feet from the house) and monitoring the charger by remote desktop to the garage PC (it controls the Hyperion). I think on top of that I am going to add a webcam to that computer so I can visually monitor the bike itself, as well as install a smoke detector in the garage and pick up a flame retardant blanket for the surrounding area and to drape over the bike while charging.

I respect the fact that we are playing with a LOT of electrical power, kill you fast kind of power, and want to avoid a garage fire if at all possible.
 
Great looking build. It has all the makings of a old board track racer. Needs a wide old tan leather brooks spring saddle and mock gas tank.



INDIAN-1913-BOARD.jpg


We all are facing the issues with lipo frailty and dangers from battery injury. Would be nice if there was some standard size protective extrusions to slip them into that would suffice for zip tie mounting. With the right padding, support and protective covering it should work as you have it. Great build. Enjoy.
 
Awesome build! I'm happy to see the cruiser look and more Upright Position :)

KF (kingfish) I believe that he uses a Waterproof membrane from the Plumbing trade to cover his triangle.
It's used for waterproofing custom showers basins. But buy the looks of his pic below, I could be wrong and
it was someone else I saw using the membrane. :)
If you like the "soft" look, KF did a really nice job!

Tommy L sends.....
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P1&P2.Spanaway.jpg
 
Took my first ride downtown today to the LBS to get my spokes tightened (the rear definitely needs to be trued). Only 2.5 miles each way down a 30 MPH rural road. Took it easy on the way there just to see what kind of mileage I could get, I found that I can comfortably pedal at 20 MPH in high gear and a little electric assist (I am not a strong biker). So with pedaling comfortably I managed to make it there on 0.55 AH of power and did not break a sweat, 91 degrees Fahrenheit.

Unfortunately the tech was backed up with his work log so said that I could drop it off or he would definitely make time for me tomorrow if I wanted to wait while he did it. So I will ride it back tomorrow. I let him take the bike around the block, though, since he was very interested. It was his first ebike ride and he definitely came back with the "ebike grin" :D CA said he only hit 24... pansy :twisted:

On the way home I burned some more AH being lazy with the pedalling and doing a speed run down a clear straight, but still only burned 1.6 AH total
 
After getting my spokes tightened all around and rear wheel trued (front was still in good shape), I found that I am getting resonance in two areas. The low speed grunt on takeoff lasts until around 15 MPH, then another set of resonance in the 26 - 28 MPH range. Unfortunately the speed limit in my neighborhood is 25 MPH, so I found that in order to avoid the resonant singing I was riding in the mid-30s. We have a ton of small children in the neighborhood and many kind police officers patrolling, so that was a little too fast.

So I figured my options were to go tighter on the spokes and move the resonance frequency range or to dampen them. Since I do not have a tension meter, I chose to try the dampening route. I cut up pieces of extra fuel line and zip tied the pieces in between where the spokes cross.

Unfortunately I ran out of black zip ties, so had to use white. I figured I would have to periodically remove them to check spoke tension (plucking does not work with the dampers in place, obviously), so would replace them with black ones at that time. Found a crazy deal on zip ties at Target in the bargain section, 60 zip ties for $1, so I bought 5 packs...

It worked out beautifully! The low speed grunt is more of the grunt I would expect rather than an auto-tuned Opera singer getting a paper cut and the upper range resonance is completely gone. Just a nice Tron-like whir on acceleration, most lovely.

Spoke_dampers_scaled.jpg

Spoke_dampers_close_scaled.jpg

New handlebars should be delivered next week, and still designing some sort of crash protective cover. And a headlight and tail light are in the works for added visibility for other drivers on the road.
 
For what it's worth, the reason most spokes don't sing is because they are interlaced at the outmost crossing (inside spoke passes over the outside). It's easier to do with thin spokes and multiple-cross lacing patterns.
 
Chalo said:
For what it's worth, the reason most spokes don't sing is because they are interlaced at the outmost crossing (inside spoke passes over the outside). It's easier to do with thin spokes and multiple-cross lacing patterns.

Ah, I see. Right, in my case the spokes do not touch each other where they cross, they just pass by. I still have plenty of extra lincoln log 12g spokes left (they came in a lot of 100), so one day when I get bored I might go ahead and re-lace the wheel with the spokes touching at the cross, if possible with these spokes. Or even order new 13-14 gauge spokes as you recommended earlier and go that route...

Thanks again!
 
maurtis said:
so one day when I get bored I might go ahead and re-lace the wheel with the spokes touching at the cross, if possible with these spokes. Or even order new 13-14 gauge spokes as you recommended earlier and go that route...

With a big ol' hub motor like yours, cross-one is the only lacing pattern that makes sense. Those spokes cross too close to the flange to lnterlace them without kinking them over the hub flange and again where they cross. A better idea for a couple of different reasons is to lace them all outside the flange (all heads-in) so they can overlap each other at a less extreme angle. And you get a touch more bracing angle in the deal.
 
I finally reprogrammed my controller to up the regen braking level to "2", much better now! But I was not sure what battery and phase combos to use. As it came, the controller peaked at around 42 amps under load. So I set it to 40 battery amps and 100 phase (following the 2.5 ratio) and WOW... The CA said under load while accelerating I was pulling 55 amps, so around 5.4kW! Yikes...

So I then tried 30/80 and pulled a max of 35 amps and weak acceleration. I went to 40/80 and max amps were about back to normal, but acceleration was still a little weaker than before. I may try 40/90, I am thinking that would put me about where I was. But for the time being I just went back to 40/100 and have my CA set to limit the current to 40 amps. The added acceleration is just so nice. I know, good way to kill the high speed wound motor... I keep an eye on the watt draw and will probably tone it down soon (since under load she still pulls 4k getting up to speed at WOT), but having a little more fun for now.

This tells me that I should start saving my pennies for a slightly slower wind / higher torque motor as a future upgrade. Having hit mid-40s with this one, I know that 40 MPH is my upper limit of comfort and a 35 MPH cruise, as originally planned, is where I want to be.

I also got in my new bars, the Nitto Promenade B617. I like the look, but the straight back angle is not as comfortable as I would like. Either a wider bar, or one with the grips at a slight angle would be spot on. They work for now, though...
 

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