4 inch diameter Astro motors coming soon..........

[mdd0127]

Astro does the same exact thing. Both my motor and j3tch1u's motors had the same exact issue. Wires shorting to screws. Their response was also a joke.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15233&start=495#p551507

Someone with some business ethics REALLY needs to get into the high output motor game and until someone does, I'm OUT! I'll pedal!

 

[recumpence]

According to Ben's thread, the wires did not short to screws, but, rather the cover (rubbing on the cover). Just making sure we get facts straight.

It sure is frustrating when any problems occur. I think a big part of the issue is the hand assembly. It is tough to achieve perfection when something is built by a human being.

I have looked into making my own motors personally. It is not as easy as you might think.

I must say, I agree 100% that a motor that costs this much should be free of defects, however.

Matt

 

[recumpence]

FYI,

I am also working with Maxx Products. They are right here in Illinois about 15 minutes from my house! They are setting up a bunch of motors custom for me. They are outrunners in the 1-3kw range. These motors are not as efficient as Astros, but the quality is the best I have ever seen besides Plettenberg. They use high-end bearings, the windings are beautiful, and the motor, overall, is extremely precise. Also, they are easy to work on. In fact, if you smoke the windings, it is $75 for a new stator that can be easily installed!

These motors are $200 each. So, they are not as cheap as the Turnigy motors, but, they are still reasonable and phenominally high quality. Also, they will be a normally stocked motor. No more waiting! The only down side is they are lower in overall power. Of course, they are also smaller than as Astro. I am kicking around the idea of running two of them. That would put the price at about the level of a 3215 setup, while being easy to obtain, easy to service, and a decent second option. This is the motor I am specing for my crank drive system.

Anyway, I am working with Astro on a cool project I cannot tell you about. That project will use a motor that we will personally inspect with each sale. It will not be cheap, though.

Matt

 

[mdd0127]

My main beef isn't that the motor had QC issues but with their overall customer service. Due to supplier issues and their associated delays, not just with astro, but with almost every other part and tool I ordered, I was completely discredited with my investors and am now homeless, alone, and broke because of it. One or two things going wrong, I can deal with, but with a nightmare on almost every purchase and terrible customer service from the vendors, my project had absolutely no chance for success. Now that I don't have the support of any investors and am deeply indebted to them, I'm spending all of my time trying to survive and there's just no way I'll be able to put enough uninterrupted time into this project to make it a reality. If I could sue them all, I would....and I'd probably win. Their negligence and attitude towards their customers really set me back and it just isn't fair. They're paying for it now though because every time I see a thread regarding the vendors that let me down, I'm going to have to put in my input.

 

[recumpence]

My main beef isn't that the motor had QC issues but with their overall customer service. Due to supplier issues and their associated delays, not just with astro, but with almost every other part and tool I ordered, I was completely discredited with my investors and am now homeless, alone, and broke because of it. One or two things going wrong, I can deal with, but with a nightmare on almost every purchase and terrible customer service from the vendors, my project had absolutely no chance for success. Now that I don't have the support of any investors and am deeply indebted to them, I'm spending all of my time trying to survive and there's just no way I'll be able to put enough uninterrupted time into this project to make it a reality. If I could sue them all, I would....and I'd probably win. Their negligence and attitude towards their customers really set me back and it just isn't fair. They're paying for it now though because every time I see a thread regarding the vendors that let me down, I'm going to have to put in my input.

Understood.

 

[Wheazel]

Anything new about the 4inch motors?

 

[recumpence]

Nothing new that I can tell you about as far as the 4 inch motors go. They are in testing and refining at Astro. I have not heard anything in a bit.

My custom Maxx Products outrunners are done, though! I posted pictures in my crank drive thread ("Letting the cat out of the bag" thread).

I am also moving forward on my other motor project. I hope to have something to share in that regard soon.

Matt

 

[Green Machine]

I was at astro motor factory today researching a story i am writing for elecricbike.com and spent the afternoon tourring the factory and having lunch with the ceo and 3 of astros top engineers. I held the 4 inch prototype in my hands and I can testify it is awesome.

This is a motor built for small airplane applications and uses very expensive components, a pricey laminate, and top grade copper and other materials. If i were you guys i wouldnt get my hopes up about price...this thing is going to be expensive...probably a lot more than your thinking. Also the first version will not be sensored, and sensors in general seem to be back burnered at astro. They have bigger fish to fry.

The 4 inch astro weighs in at 9 lbs and puts at least 3 times the horsepower of the 3220. It will reach peek efficiency at 6000rpms. Unless your initials are lfp i can't imagine what you are going to do with a motor like this on a bicycle. Also this motor seems at least a few months away...probably much more. They are also developing a controller special for this motor which will also power a 3220. This is not a sensored controller.

These new guys at astro are top notch, and the company has grown from a few employees to over 20 employees and I saw the factory and the facilities and they are impressive.

The problem i think people have mentioned here regarding customer relations etc is Astro is not focused on retailing at all but on R@d and large government like order fulfillment.

IF you want customer service your best bet is to buy a astro motor from a reseller which means buy from Matt. They do not seem set up yet to deal with retail sales and support. Also Matt understands the motors better than anybody and can install sensors, program controller, get correct winding etc to make a monster motor like this more ebike friendly. This motor is going to be awesome once matt puts his gloves on it.

Anyway i am going to write a complete article about my experience today , touring the astro factory and will publish it soon with pictures. I can tell you guys this....i am pretty sure my astro 3220 is not going to overheat this year at pikes I have faith that astro is in good hands, and the redesigned 3220 with active cooling will sustain the acid test which is pikes peak.

 

[deVries]

I was at astro motor factory today researching a story i am writing for elecricbike.com and spent the afternoon tourring the factory and having lunch with the ceo and 3 of astros top engineers. I held the 4 inch prototype in my hands and I can testify it is awesome.

This is a motor built for small airplane applications and uses very expensive components, a pricey laminate, and top grade copper and other materials. If i were you guys i wouldnt get my hopes up about price...this thing is going to be expensive...probably a lot more than your thinking. Also the first version will not be sensored, and sensors in general seem to be back burnered at astro. They have bigger fish to fry.

The 4 inch astro weighs in at 9 lbs and puts at least 3 times the horsepower of the 3220. It will reach peek efficiency at 6000rpms. Unless your initials are lfp i can't imagine what you are going to do with a motor like this on a bicycle. Also this motor seems at least a few months away...probably much more. They are also developing a controller special for this motor which will also power a 3220. This is not a sensored controller.

These new guys at astro are top notch, and the company has grown from a few employees to over 20 employees and I saw the factory and the facilities and they are impressive.

The problem i think people have mentioned here regarding customer relations etc is Astro is not focused on retailing at all but on R@d and large government like order fulfillment.

IF you want customer service your best bet is to buy a astro motor from a reseller which means buy from Matt. They do not seem set up yet to deal with retail sales and support. Also Matt understands the motors better than anybody and can install sensors, program controller, get correct winding etc to make a monster motor like this more ebike friendly. This motor is going to be awesome once matt puts his gloves on it.

Anyway i am going to write a complete article about my experience today , touring the astro factory and will publish it soon with pictures. I can tell you guys this....i am pretty sure my astro 3220 is not going to overheat this year at pikes I have faith that astro is in good hands, and the redesigned 3220 with active cooling will sustain the acid test which is pikes peak.

I'm enjoying reading your articles Green Machine... very well written with lots of photos... and the website design is excellent.

Aren't the majority of motors that Astro makes going into RC & military drones?

If this new motor is again focused on an *airplane* (RC) application, then it's not necessarily going to be ideal for an eBike too? :?

Sounds like the very high purchase price for this motor is pricing itself too high for "practicle use" eBikes, imo. Just the guys with deep pockets & obsession with this type of most expensive "Ferrari" setup need apply... The big difference though, when buying a Ferrari you get a Ferrari engine made specifically for their Ferrari racing design. :wink:

Btw, does anyone know if this motor could be used for manned flight, perhaps, in a glider application?

Is this new Astro motor designed for military drone use or what?

 

[Green Machine]

Devries, thanks for your support on the new site...its been fun. I like scoping out the electric bike world looking for stories. ITs fun touring factories and am getting some great opportunities to see the industry from the inside. It was a dream today to see the inner workings of astro..

Yeah it seems like the new 4 inch astros primary purpose is for aircraft /military use but what did you expect? Astro probably sells 40 motors a year for electric bike use if you think about it.....why should they bend over backwards for us given we are such a small share of their overall business. As always its the job of someone like matt or thud to adopt the technology to fit ebikes...because no one is going to put that kind of money into development of a product like that just for the tiny US high end ebike market...lets face that fact.

Being a glider pilot myself i thnk the 4 inch motor would be well suited for powering a manned sail plane....some of the new single seater sail planes only weigh 150 pounds (google sparrowhawk).....at very least it could be used as a recovery motor (not enough to launch but enough to be used as a save).

One good thing that even though this motor seems designed for an airplane the new owners of astro are very concerned with motor cooling etc...one of the key guys i spoke with extensively today is a mechanical engineer with an emphasis on thermal dynamics and a very big objective of theirs seems making these motors run cool which works really well with the electric bike thing. I am more exctied about the new 3220's than i am the new 4 inch can. They are applying a lot of what they are learning in terms of cooling the large can for a new design of the 3220 with an active cooling system. They have made a lot of improvements over the 3220 of bob's days...today they ran a 3210 motor for me under load it was literally whisper quiet. Because the motors are being made too much tighter tolerances they are a lot quieter than the motors of old.

The new 4 inch motor...expensive...my guess is it will cost at least $2k....but the cost to make this motor is very high given the high quality and low production numbers. And imagine a product which you could give lfp a run for his money in a small tight looking package that weighs less than 10 pounds.

 

[deVries]

Steve sucks,
He make bad designs and does not stand behind them...I would not trust his stuff.
Have a look at what he cost some peoples.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1497537

Wholly Crap! Look at THE OBVIOUS... Aug 30, 2011, 08:05 AM
View attachment 2

Aug 30, 2011, 08:05 AM from RC group:
Funny thing this is NOT the first time, a friend got his motor damaged twice from Neu(maybe he will chip in too), still he continues selling them. The only offer I got was to ship the motor back so he could relocate the screws causing the fire...

Neu says they test all motors, and I believe them. But after installning it in the plane wiggeling the cables once or twice the motor was shortend by the screws holding the end cap, where Steve also been kind enough to put tie straps to make sure you get 100% rubbing against the screws

Steves ridiculous engineering skills costed me my $907 ESC where of he has no plans to compensate me ...just offering to relocate the screws... which after several other failed motor should not have been there in the first place. Luckily I never got the plane of the ground.

If you do something wrong YOU STAND FOR IT!!! as simple as that!!

View attachment 1

notice to astro motor owners. i discovered my 3220 was shorted to the chassis making for a "lively" ride. culprit was: end termination shrink tape worn out by heat and/or wear. it would be a good idea to double-up on the shrink tape here. happened only after a few rides.
Endless Sphere Post Please Notice the Date: j3tch1u » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:50 am

Obviously, we have a long-term pattern of "inexcusable" defects caused by both extremely poor design AND non-existent quality control.

My 3220 did exactly the same thing.....in fact it came shorted from the factory, probably costing me a few hundred bucks worth of controllers and many many hours of frustrating troubleshooting.

 

[deVries]

Yeah it seems like the new 4 inch astros primary purpose is for aircraft /military use but what did you expect? Astro probably sells 40 motors a year for electric bike use if you think about it.....why should they bend over backwards for us given we are such a small share of their overall business. As always its the job of someone like matt or thud to adopt the technology to fit ebikes...because no one is going to put that kind of money into development of a product like that just for the tiny US high end ebike market...lets face that fact.

I agree. And, that's why eBikes still don't really have a specific motor design UNTIL someone is willing to step-up and invest in the future and provide one. Perfect opportunity to build a market with a real eBike motor from the ground-up, imo. NASA & military eventually bring some good consumer products. Burt Rutan visionary types not just interested in making money... are what we need. At least Japan & Germany show it can be done already for several years now...

 

[lostrack]

In defense of Astro, in at least my occasion, my motor was fine. I checked specifically to see if there were problems



Gluing temperature sensor with high temperature silicon sealant.

 

[mdd0127]

It seems that Astro can't see the forest for the trees. I don't know how many e-bike developers there are out there that are working with their motors but I know that there are/were at least a few. It is highly possible that if these manufacturers would take e-bikes seriously, bring production costs down, improve quality control, and most of all, take the people designing products around their products seriously, that the e-bike market would dwarf their military stuff. If I had been able to place orders, receive high quality products quickly and reliably, and had some kind of support early on, it's highly possible that my company would have placed orders for thousands of these parts by now. But instead of taking their customers seriously, the made us the lowest priority, which makes our investors lose confidence in us and drop funding. It's beyond sad.

Also, any company that is supporting the military industrial complex in any way, in particular MAKING PARTS FOR DRONES, is an enemy of freedom. I truly hope that their plant burns down if this is what they're doing. Astro can suck it.

 

[Nuts&Volts]

I was at astro motor factory today researching a story i am writing for elecricbike.com and spent the afternoon tourring the factory and having lunch with the ceo and 3 of astros top engineers. I held the 4 inch prototype in my hands and I can testify it is awesome.

This is a motor built for small airplane applications and uses very expensive components, a pricey laminate, and top grade copper and other materials. If i were you guys i wouldnt get my hopes up about price...this thing is going to be expensive...probably a lot more than your thinking. Also the first version will not be sensored, and sensors in general seem to be back burnered at astro. They have bigger fish to fry.

The 4 inch astro weighs in at 9 lbs and puts at least 3 times the horsepower of the 3220. It will reach peek efficiency at 6000rpms. Unless your initials are lfp i can't imagine what you are going to do with a motor like this on a bicycle. Also this motor seems at least a few months away...probably much more. They are also developing a controller special for this motor which will also power a 3220. This is not a sensored controller.

These new guys at astro are top notch, and the company has grown from a few employees to over 20 employees and I saw the factory and the facilities and they are impressive.

The problem i think people have mentioned here regarding customer relations etc is Astro is not focused on retailing at all but on R@d and large government like order fulfillment.

IF you want customer service your best bet is to buy a astro motor from a reseller which means buy from Matt. They do not seem set up yet to deal with retail sales and support. Also Matt understands the motors better than anybody and can install sensors, program controller, get correct winding etc to make a monster motor like this more ebike friendly. This motor is going to be awesome once matt puts his gloves on it.

Anyway i am going to write a complete article about my experience today , touring the astro factory and will publish it soon with pictures. I can tell you guys this....i am pretty sure my astro 3220 is not going to overheat this year at pikes I have faith that astro is in good hands, and the redesigned 3220 with active cooling will sustain the acid test which is pikes peak.

Green Machine, in your opinion the 4in will have somewhere between 30-40kW peak power capable? Or were you talking continuous numbers. Any idea about how long until they might be ready for production? I've got some electric motorcycle projects I'd love to run these in...

 

[recumpence]

It seems that Astro can't see the forest for the trees. I don't know how many e-bike developers there are out there that are working with their motors but I know that there are/were at least a few. It is highly possible that if these manufacturers would take e-bikes seriously, bring production costs down, improve quality control, and most of all, take the people designing products around their products seriously, that the e-bike market would dwarf their military stuff. If I had been able to place orders, receive high quality products quickly and reliably, and had some kind of support early on, it's highly possible that my company would have placed orders for thousands of these parts by now. But instead of taking their customers seriously, the made us the lowest priority, which makes our investors lose confidence in us and drop funding. It's beyond sad.

Also, any company that is supporting the military industrial complex in any way, in particular MAKING PARTS FOR DRONES, is an enemy of freedom. I truly hope that their plant burns down if this is what they're doing. Astro can suck it.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Without a military, we would be overun by tyrants.

I am sorry, but you hit a nerve on this one. The military is NEEDED, period.......

Matt

 

[flathill]

Just look at what happened to Aveox if you want to know what is going to happen to Astro

Aveox offered one of the first Brushless motor and controller systems for rc cars back in the early 90s

Found out they could charge the gov way more than hobbyist and they completely abandoned the consumer market

Let us not talk anymore politics! Let's see the factory tour! Thanks green machine!!

 

[deVries]

I must say, I agree 100% that a motor that costs this much should be free of defects, however.

Matt

+1 x $500-$1,000+ :wink:

 

[mdd0127]

It seems that Astro can't see the forest for the trees. I don't know how many e-bike developers there are out there that are working with their motors but I know that there are/were at least a few. It is highly possible that if these manufacturers would take e-bikes seriously, bring production costs down, improve quality control, and most of all, take the people designing products around their products seriously, that the e-bike market would dwarf their military stuff. If I had been able to place orders, receive high quality products quickly and reliably, and had some kind of support early on, it's highly possible that my company would have placed orders for thousands of these parts by now. But instead of taking their customers seriously, the made us the lowest priority, which makes our investors lose confidence in us and drop funding. It's beyond sad.

Also, any company that is supporting the military industrial complex in any way, in particular MAKING PARTS FOR DRONES, is an enemy of freedom. I truly hope that their plant burns down if this is what they're doing. Astro can suck it.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Without a military, we would be overun by tyrants.

I am sorry, but you hit a nerve on this one. The military is NEEDED, period.......

Matt

I didn't say that the military isn't needed. People are a bunch of dumb greedy monkeys so we NEED to be able to kill them when the dumb greedy monkeys in charge think it's necessary. The military industrial complex though, is totally out of control. Military spending is totally out of control. Do we really need hypersonic gliders??? Come one now. The main thing that I was speaking out against was DRONES. I really don't like the idea of having remote controlled, armed, machines in our airspace. Not even a year ago they used one to illegally assassinate an american citizen, without a trial. And even scarier is the fact that there's been a law passed that will allow local law enforcement to buy and fly killer surveillance robots. Have you ever seen a sci-fi movie? Armed flying robots will be the beginning of the end.

Ok sorry, back to the motor that will never be available at a price any normal human can afford, from a company that doesn't give two shits about its customers thread.......

 

[Green Machine]

This motor is designed for aircraft but it will work on a motorcycle. There emphasis in the design of this motor is efficiency, power to weight, and cooling.

It is not a sealed motor like the 3220, it blows air through it and there is holes in the casing. The drawback to this of course is riding a bike off road with this type of motor, if dirt gets in the casing the motor could get ruined.

Astro says they are experimenting with different cooling systems to see what works best.

They are applying what they have learned in the development of this motor to the 3220 which they plan to redesign.

I heard the 4 inch motor run and it was surprisingly quiet.

If you need a lot of power to weight and price is not issue...this would be a good motor for you.

Dont expect sensors anytime soon....not from astro.

Astro can custom design the motor for the customers needs. It seems like they build the motors as the order comes in...so you probably would be able to specify wind, which cooling system you want etc.... And these guys are slammed with orders so dont expect a motor order to be fulfilled over night. Because they are building the motors as the orders come in and they have a production schedule, it can be a while if you order one motor from them. Astro is a small production house...they are not hobbyking. And because they are a small production house they don't have customer service representatives standing by to help you with your warranty claim etc.


What surprised me most is i expected to see a decrepit almost bankrupt operation...but no...this is a hopping factory and business is booming. They went from 5 employees from when they took the business over 2 years ago to 25 employees. They have multiple high level engineers working on R@D. The main guy's emphasis before he took over the company was aerospace. He was keen to the whole ebike idea...so the good news is they seems receptive. These guys have the capacity to make it happen.

Remember when they took over astro, astro was being dominated in the RC field by china factories like Hobby King. THey had to change their business model to survive and obviously did something right.

I saw for myself the difference between the old motors when bob ran the company and the new motors they are designing, and they have seemed to tackle a lot of the quality control issues. Its hard to judge right now, because part of the problem there are still many motors being ran for the first time that were bought recently here on the grooups brand new but were made in the old astro factory. Thats what happened in my case when i smoked 2 3220s on a mountain climb on a trike. Although both motors were brand new, i bought them on the groups and were part of the original 3220 group buy from the old astro factory.

 

[deVries]

Astro can custom design the motor for the customers needs. It seems like they build the motors as the order comes in...so you probably would be able to specify wind, which cooling system you want etc.... And these guys are slammed with orders so dont expect a motor order to be fulfilled over night. Because they are building the motors as the orders come in and they have a production schedule, it can be a while if you order one motor from them. Astro is a small production house...they are not hobbyking. And because they are a small production house they don't have customer service representatives standing by to help you with your warranty claim etc.

Some people on the RC groups were speculating that these motors are assembled/made overseas such as China. In other words, R&D is in the USA, but farm-out the manufacturing elsewhere. Is this possible that some motors come from overseas, or do they hand build ALL the motors in the USA?

 

[smudger1956]

Blimey....Astro still going.....Worked for the U.K distributor, used their brushed cobalt motors way back for RC planes, fried a few Astro 05 FAI's...... :lol:
Now use Hacker or Scorpion brushless for serious RC planes.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

If I had been able to place orders, receive high quality products quickly and reliably, and had some kind of support early on, it's highly possible that my company would have placed orders for thousands of these parts by now. But instead of taking their customers seriously, the made us the lowest priority, which makes our investors lose confidence in us and drop funding. It's beyond sad.

IMO you would be better served if you took some responsibility for your own failures.

Also, any company that is supporting the military industrial complex in any way, in particular MAKING PARTS FOR DRONES, is an enemy of freedom. I truly hope that their plant burns down if this is what they're doing....

The main thing that I was speaking out against was DRONES. I really don't like the idea of having remote controlled, armed, machines in our airspace. Not even a year ago they used one to illegally assassinate an american citizen, without a trial. And even scarier is the fact that there's been a law passed that will allow local law enforcement to buy and fly killer surveillance robots. Have you ever seen a sci-fi movie? Armed flying robots will be the beginning of the end.

+10 on the drones. I'm more concerned with the innocent people being killed in Pakastani, and elsewhere.

• 1. How many innocent people is it acceptable to kill?
  2. There might be some tactical benefit but it's a strategic blunder. A primary cause of terrorism is that a lot of people, with some very good reasons, hate the U. S. Giving more people good reasons to hate us isn't going to help.

 

[kevo]

MitchJi wrote: MO you would be better served if you took some responsibility for your own failures.

Mitch, coming from Marin myself I find that judgement a bit harsh

Though I agree with you on the drones

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

IMO you would be better served if you took some responsibility for your own failures.

Mitch, coming from Marin myself I find that judgement a bit harsh

I should have figured out a way to try to make my point more diplomatically but I did not intend to be harsh. Even if its 100% true that mdd would have been wildly successful if Astro had none of the problems he listed that doesn't mean that the reason he failed is due to Astro. Thats like saying the reason he is drowning is because the current in this river is too fast, ignoring the fact that he should not have jumped into the river in the first place. The first step he needs to take to improve his chances of success is to overcome his own shortcomings, which can't happen as long as he blames someone else for his failures.