AussieJester
1 TW
bkwilless said:
If you look at the top of the page under "New Topic" button there's a "subscribe to this topic" button, click this and you will be notified of any updates on the thread.
KiM
A picture's worth a thousand words....... (title edited)
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
If you look at the top of the page under "New Topic" button there's a "subscribe to this topic" button, click this and you will be notified of any updates on the thread.
KiM
Keep in mind many email services seem to "lose" many, sometimes most, of the notification emails. It may even be the sending email service that is not actually sending them; I haven't been able to determine that for sure.
So to keep track of threads, use the Subscribe link, and then each time you want to check up on them, use this link:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/ucp.php?i=main&mode=subscribed
to get to your personal subcribed threads page, and any with new posts will have the new-posts icon.
It's the only way I've found that will definitely work to keep track of them and notify me of new posts in them.
So to keep track of threads, use the Subscribe link, and then each time you want to check up on them, use this link:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/ucp.php?i=main&mode=subscribed
to get to your personal subcribed threads page, and any with new posts will have the new-posts icon.
It's the only way I've found that will definitely work to keep track of them and notify me of new posts in them.
AussieJester
1 TW
amberwolf said:
You must have a ripper of an 'email service' AW...I haven't ever not been informed of an update i have dozens of emails every day informing me of updates in subscribed threads.
KiM
It's Gmail; I don't have a problem with anything else with it that I've tested, but I do know that they sometimes "pre-filter" stuff that they think is a spambot out there sending lots of crap from a specific domain or something. They wont' admit to it (and neither will any other provider I have dealt with so far about similar issues) but it is the only practical explanation for the results I see, including some manual testing of such things with someone else. I wouldn't care if it just stuck the stuff in each user's spam box, but it doesn't even make it there. 
Cox, my paid ISP, was much worse, and often diddn't even *send* the mail I sent, much less put stuff it received into my inbox or spambox, especially after their "upgrade" to fight spam.
I wont' even begin about Hotmail and Yahoo. :lol:
Anyway, it's certainly possible Gmail is the culprit, but the notifications themselves are *sent* from a Gmail account, so you'd think it wouldn't be rejecting stuff sourced within itself!
Cox, my paid ISP, was much worse, and often diddn't even *send* the mail I sent, much less put stuff it received into my inbox or spambox, especially after their "upgrade" to fight spam.
I wont' even begin about Hotmail and Yahoo. :lol:Anyway, it's certainly possible Gmail is the culprit, but the notifications themselves are *sent* from a Gmail account, so you'd think it wouldn't be rejecting stuff sourced within itself!
Hillhater
100 TW
It can't be just Gmail ..that has always worked faultlessly for me and may others i know.
more likely something "local" is monitoring /filtering your mail traffic.. .. big brother is watching you :wink:
more likely something "local" is monitoring /filtering your mail traffic.. .. big brother is watching you :wink:
Unless something between me and Gmail's web page is filtering as i view the page, it can't be anything "local".
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
amberwolf said:
Me too except that twice they stopped coming due to Comcast's spam filtering and when I notified knightmb he arranged to have them stop.AussieJester said:
recumpence
1 GW
Mmmm, I just picked up some prototype goodies today!
I will be testing over the next few days. I will post pics once I have some real data to share.
Matt
I will be testing over the next few days. I will post pics once I have some real data to share.
Matt
Barrett83
1 µW
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2010
- Messages
- 1
How about a single stage, enclosed, planetary gear reduction for a direct RC motor shaft input and 1/2 pitch sprocket output.
Internal oil bath (possibly), straight cut spur gears (for prototype #1), simple mounting (like a flange to the left side of the BB or something universal like that).
If a torque limiting clutch is necessary (though I'd like to see it without for starters), incorporate it into the sprocket (concentric).
Maybe that's what's in the works here.
Andrew
Pickering, Ontario
Internal oil bath (possibly), straight cut spur gears (for prototype #1), simple mounting (like a flange to the left side of the BB or something universal like that).
If a torque limiting clutch is necessary (though I'd like to see it without for starters), incorporate it into the sprocket (concentric).
Maybe that's what's in the works here.
Andrew
Pickering, Ontario
recumpence
1 GW
Been doing some testing today!
I will be doing final testing tomorrow and will post pics.
Bear in mind, this is not a crazy complicated assembly. But, it is another step in the right direction.
Matt
I will be doing final testing tomorrow and will post pics.
Bear in mind, this is not a crazy complicated assembly. But, it is another step in the right direction.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Here are a few pictures of the newest project/product.
The pictures do not do it justice.
This is (obviously) a final stage belt drive. It is very unique, however. I have done a lot of research into this and found the best solution I could. Here is what the drive consists of;
---The pitch is 8mm.
---The tooth profile is Polychain, not the typical HTD.
---The belt style is Contitech Syncrochain Kevlar cord.
---The freewheel up front is a Sprague oneway style clutch rather than a standard clicking freewheel.
---Ratio is 3.07 to 1 (26 tooth front, 80 tooth rear).
My reasons for using these particular components is multifaceted;
First, even at 8mm pitch, 15mm width, a HTD belt would be near its limit with a 3220 motor. This belt and tooth profile is WILDLY over speced. This particular belt in a 40mm width is used as a jackshaft to track belt on 400hp supercharged snowmobiles! So, this application is child's-play for it.
Second, the Sprague clutch is silent and does not have any backlash like a normal freewheel. This allows for silent freewheeling and silent engagement.
As for the specifics of running a belt to the rear wheel, these are numerous also;
#1 (this may seem a bit petty to some here) it keeps everything clean. I am sick of chain lube all over the frame ALL THE TIME! It is a pain to constantly clean that crap.
#2 Longevity. The belt should last forever in this application.
#3 No service. The belt will never need retensioning. It will not stretch like a chain.
#4 Efficiency. It is shocking how little drag there is, even if I run the belt really tight.
#5 Quiet. ------ This is, probably, the single coolest aspect of the whole project. The drive is almost completely silent. When running it with the wheel off the ground, all that is heard is wind noise from the spokes and tire tread and the motor whine (which is very quiet). I had no clue how much noise the chain made before running this! The wind noise completely drowns out the electric drive sound. It is almost irritating to not hear much of anything while riding. I like it!
#6 Stealth. This setup (once the rear pulley is anodized black) will be less visually obtrusive than a chain. Though I admit it is so different, it does catch attention in certain respects.
#7 weight. This is a first prototype. So, final weight is yet to be determined. However, I can tell you the rear pulley weighs pretty much the same amount as the sprocket did, but the belt weighs almost nothing! The front freewheel is a tiny bit heavier than the stock freewheel. However, that weight is in a small diameter located in the center of the frame. So, this system has far less rotating mass and far less mass at the outer extremity of the vehicle. This reduces the moment of inertia and improves handling a touch.
#8 No more thrown chains! I have gotten sick of throwing chains. Even with chain guides, for whatever reason, I throw a couple chains a year. No more with this setup! The belt will not run off the pulley. Belt tracking is fantastic on these style belts and pulleys.
Final price is yet to be determined. However, I can tell you it will not be cheap. It looks like the two pulleys and belt will be around $400 (maybe a tiny bit less depending on a few factors). However, my thoughts on this is, that is only about twice the cost of the White Industries freewheel, chain, chainring, chainring adaptor, and bolts we are using now. So, for a new setup, this only adds a couple hundred dollars. Not too bad if you are building a high-end bike.
Lastly, a belt cannot be taken apart like a chain. So, the center to center distance of each setup mush be taken into consideration and a belt obtained for each. Also, this setup eliminates the ability to run the belt around the dropouts on some bikes because, again, you cannot separate the belt to go through a frame. So, some setups cannot use this. Pretty much all trikes and most bike setups can work, however, depending on how the system is layed out.
I think that is it for now!
Matt
The pictures do not do it justice.
This is (obviously) a final stage belt drive. It is very unique, however. I have done a lot of research into this and found the best solution I could. Here is what the drive consists of;
---The pitch is 8mm.
---The tooth profile is Polychain, not the typical HTD.
---The belt style is Contitech Syncrochain Kevlar cord.
---The freewheel up front is a Sprague oneway style clutch rather than a standard clicking freewheel.
---Ratio is 3.07 to 1 (26 tooth front, 80 tooth rear).
My reasons for using these particular components is multifaceted;
First, even at 8mm pitch, 15mm width, a HTD belt would be near its limit with a 3220 motor. This belt and tooth profile is WILDLY over speced. This particular belt in a 40mm width is used as a jackshaft to track belt on 400hp supercharged snowmobiles! So, this application is child's-play for it.
Second, the Sprague clutch is silent and does not have any backlash like a normal freewheel. This allows for silent freewheeling and silent engagement.
As for the specifics of running a belt to the rear wheel, these are numerous also;
#1 (this may seem a bit petty to some here) it keeps everything clean. I am sick of chain lube all over the frame ALL THE TIME! It is a pain to constantly clean that crap.
#2 Longevity. The belt should last forever in this application.
#3 No service. The belt will never need retensioning. It will not stretch like a chain.
#4 Efficiency. It is shocking how little drag there is, even if I run the belt really tight.
#5 Quiet. ------ This is, probably, the single coolest aspect of the whole project. The drive is almost completely silent. When running it with the wheel off the ground, all that is heard is wind noise from the spokes and tire tread and the motor whine (which is very quiet). I had no clue how much noise the chain made before running this! The wind noise completely drowns out the electric drive sound. It is almost irritating to not hear much of anything while riding. I like it!
#6 Stealth. This setup (once the rear pulley is anodized black) will be less visually obtrusive than a chain. Though I admit it is so different, it does catch attention in certain respects.
#7 weight. This is a first prototype. So, final weight is yet to be determined. However, I can tell you the rear pulley weighs pretty much the same amount as the sprocket did, but the belt weighs almost nothing! The front freewheel is a tiny bit heavier than the stock freewheel. However, that weight is in a small diameter located in the center of the frame. So, this system has far less rotating mass and far less mass at the outer extremity of the vehicle. This reduces the moment of inertia and improves handling a touch.
#8 No more thrown chains! I have gotten sick of throwing chains. Even with chain guides, for whatever reason, I throw a couple chains a year. No more with this setup! The belt will not run off the pulley. Belt tracking is fantastic on these style belts and pulleys.
Final price is yet to be determined. However, I can tell you it will not be cheap. It looks like the two pulleys and belt will be around $400 (maybe a tiny bit less depending on a few factors). However, my thoughts on this is, that is only about twice the cost of the White Industries freewheel, chain, chainring, chainring adaptor, and bolts we are using now. So, for a new setup, this only adds a couple hundred dollars. Not too bad if you are building a high-end bike.
Lastly, a belt cannot be taken apart like a chain. So, the center to center distance of each setup mush be taken into consideration and a belt obtained for each. Also, this setup eliminates the ability to run the belt around the dropouts on some bikes because, again, you cannot separate the belt to go through a frame. So, some setups cannot use this. Pretty much all trikes and most bike setups can work, however, depending on how the system is layed out.
I think that is it for now!
Matt
Attachments
Ypedal
100 TW
Awsome !!
Since there is no more grease involved, how cool would it be if the rear pulley could also act like a rotor, caliper would have to be a custom job to fit over the belt section of the pulley..
Next project, prototype dream machine, plug it into your brain, hit a switch and out comes a part ! hehe.
Since there is no more grease involved, how cool would it be if the rear pulley could also act like a rotor, caliper would have to be a custom job to fit over the belt section of the pulley..
Next project, prototype dream machine, plug it into your brain, hit a switch and out comes a part ! hehe.
Alan B
100 GW
Very Pretty. I really like the cleanliness and quiet of belt drive.
How will it react to a pebble or twig that gets caught between gear and belt?
How much do replacement belts cost?
Thanks!
How will it react to a pebble or twig that gets caught between gear and belt?
How much do replacement belts cost?
Thanks!
recumpence
1 GW
OK, a couple things;
The belt is the lowest cost part of this. The belt is $40. So, not too bad. They are indestructable, though. You would have to cut it with shears to need a new one.
Miles, funny story about the yellow belt.......... When I was at the pulley shop, they showed me Gates poly chain and this Contitech belt. I immediately fell in love with the yellow belt. However, the pulley shop said "Sorry for the ugly yellow color. That is the ONLY color Contitech belts of that pitch come in." Also, Gates carbon polychain is stiffer than this belt. So, it is a touch less efficient than this belt. However, there are more tooth count sizes in Gates than Contitech. So, I may need to use Gates on some setups. Oh the Gates belts are blue and black.
Alan,
I am not sure about that. It is a very good question, though. I may have to do some testing to answer that.
Y,
Yes, I have already looked into it. That is a possibility. However, what is even easier is, a stock KMX caliper can be taken apart and the backplate can be replaced with a simple thinner plate. This allows a rotor to be next to the pulley. This completely hides the pulley edge for an even more stealth look and is easy to do. I am almost done with that conversion, myself. But, I wanted to display they belt drive as-is first.
Matt
The belt is the lowest cost part of this. The belt is $40. So, not too bad. They are indestructable, though. You would have to cut it with shears to need a new one.
Miles, funny story about the yellow belt.......... When I was at the pulley shop, they showed me Gates poly chain and this Contitech belt. I immediately fell in love with the yellow belt. However, the pulley shop said "Sorry for the ugly yellow color. That is the ONLY color Contitech belts of that pitch come in."
Also, Gates carbon polychain is stiffer than this belt. So, it is a touch less efficient than this belt. However, there are more tooth count sizes in Gates than Contitech. So, I may need to use Gates on some setups. Oh the Gates belts are blue and black.Alan,
I am not sure about that. It is a very good question, though. I may have to do some testing to answer that.
Y,
Yes, I have already looked into it. That is a possibility. However, what is even easier is, a stock KMX caliper can be taken apart and the backplate can be replaced with a simple thinner plate. This allows a rotor to be next to the pulley. This completely hides the pulley edge for an even more stealth look and is easy to do. I am almost done with that conversion, myself. But, I wanted to display they belt drive as-is first.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Arlo1 said:
That would be Ben.
I am one of the idea guys. That seems to be my skill set.
Matt
northernmike
10 kW
northernmike said:
Called it!
recumpence
1 GW
Nope, you called a "Gates" belt drive. This is a Contitech Syncrochain. :wink:
Matt
Matt
John in CR
100 TW
Hey Matt,
Very sweet. What would you consider the max reduction we can run and get absolute dependability for that estimated $400 pricetag? What's the max center to center distance for the pulley's?
John
A hubbie enthusiast looking to add just the benefits of non-hub with no detriments.
Very sweet. What would you consider the max reduction we can run and get absolute dependability for that estimated $400 pricetag? What's the max center to center distance for the pulley's?
John
A hubbie enthusiast looking to add just the benefits of non-hub with no detriments.
recumpence
1 GW
This is the only ratio I am willing to make. It is EXTEREMELY expensive to prototype large pulleys like this. This pulley is 8 inches in diameter. That is the max the pulley shop can get out of their normal material (8 inch round bar). So, the 3.07 to 1 ratio is the lowest it can go. That is the same as the typical 16 tooth freewheel to 50 tooth rear chainring most guys are used to running.
I wish I could go with more reduction. But, this is the best we can do.
You can look up 8mm Polychain or 8mm Syncrochain for the available lengths.
Matt
I wish I could go with more reduction. But, this is the best we can do.
You can look up 8mm Polychain or 8mm Syncrochain for the available lengths.
Matt
I was about to start machining on my version of your drive, and you go and raise the bar. Damn you.
I'm totally excited to hear your experience after a few rides!
Is Ben a username? If you think he does nicer work than you, I'd love to see his work.
The silence is verry, attractive to me, a video would be cool so we can hear the difference.
Colour me impressed.
Katou
I'm totally excited to hear your experience after a few rides!
Is Ben a username? If you think he does nicer work than you, I'd love to see his work.
The silence is verry, attractive to me, a video would be cool so we can hear the difference.
Colour me impressed.
Katou
recumpence
1 GW
This is Ben's bike.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15233&start=390
I have ridden the trike a few miles. It is nearly totally silent. Under acceleration, you can hear the motor whine. But, when up to speed, all you hear is wind and a tiny bit of belt sound. It is very cool! It runs sooooo smooth. I am very happy with it. I am also happy with the Sprague one-way rather than a freewheel.
I do have a video of it. I need to upload it to youtube so I can link it here.
Matt
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15233&start=390
I have ridden the trike a few miles. It is nearly totally silent. Under acceleration, you can hear the motor whine. But, when up to speed, all you hear is wind and a tiny bit of belt sound. It is very cool! It runs sooooo smooth. I am very happy with it. I am also happy with the Sprague one-way rather than a freewheel.
I do have a video of it. I need to upload it to youtube so I can link it here.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Here is the video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQV0UzV5qTM
I purposely used my wife's camera to record this video because it is hyper sensitive to high pitch noise. What you hear in the video is actually far louder than the sound in real life.
Under acceleration, you can hear the motor. But, when up at speed, it is pretty much silent. Bear in mind, every time the trike is in sight, the motor is running. It is not coasting at any point in the video other than when you hear the front brake rotor vibrate.
At the end of the video, you can hear the rear tire spinning as I turn around and approach the camera.
Enjoy!
Matt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQV0UzV5qTM
I purposely used my wife's camera to record this video because it is hyper sensitive to high pitch noise. What you hear in the video is actually far louder than the sound in real life.
Under acceleration, you can hear the motor. But, when up at speed, it is pretty much silent. Bear in mind, every time the trike is in sight, the motor is running. It is not coasting at any point in the video other than when you hear the front brake rotor vibrate.
At the end of the video, you can hear the rear tire spinning as I turn around and approach the camera.
Enjoy!
Matt
AussieJester
1 TW
great stuff Matt! As you know i loved the belt setup i put on my cruiser, it was very quiet in comparison
to the chain, the slipping issue though with 5mm pitch belts was an issue, you have addressed
this with the larger pitch of the Contitech Syncrochain setup, outstanding I can see those
sound conscious with deep pockets will jump all over this one. I wonder if i could make me another
pulley using the epoxy glue method i used on the 5mm pitch pulley i made MAtt? I don't see any
reason why not...
KiM
to the chain, the slipping issue though with 5mm pitch belts was an issue, you have addressed
this with the larger pitch of the Contitech Syncrochain setup, outstanding
I can see thosesound conscious with deep pockets will jump all over this one. I wonder if i could make me another
pulley using the epoxy glue method i used on the 5mm pitch pulley i made MAtt? I don't see any
reason why not...
KiM
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