A whole new level of spun axles - what 10KW does to an X5

[enoob]

:lol: to funny

i dont have a photo of what i speak of nor do i know the name of it but there is a large stone about the size of a pop can that you can screw to an angle grinder . it would be perfect for what your about to try , i know metal workers use them alot and i have one at the shop in pitt meadows . ill see if i can find a photo online and edit it in... here we go , its close to what i mean but without the taper.
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/CatalogItem/Images/27890_49-93-5140.jpg


otherwise good luck and lots of photos.

 

[methods]

I am going to hold the stator in my hands and "rub it" on the side of my 14" metal chop saw.

Only thing I am worried about is one tiny little twitch and I can open up the phase wires :?
I am still stewing on it.

I really think I only need to take a few thousands off...
Maybe 2-3 "scuff overs" will do it

-methods

 

[enoob]

you know a good ol flat bastard file would probably work fine , take longer but you'd have control.

 

[mwkeefer]

I want to pull a trailer behind my trike with a fully automatic paintball turret.
My wife can mow down junior high kids as I scream obscenities

I have all the stuff..... I dont know what is stopping me.

-methods

I keep saying we need to form an EC (eBike Club) akin to MC (motorcycle club)...

"Say ello to my ittle friend"

-Mike

 

[bigmoose]

Stick the stator between your legs, squeeze and have at it with your 4 or 5 inch Milwaukee angle grinder with a flexible abrasive disk. It should contour out very nicely.

 

[methods]

I ended up using my Stylus Dremel with one of those 2" metal grinding disks. Ran the "blade" perpendicular to the axle (parallel to the layers) and zoomed in and out
Worked beautifully!
The stator metal is soft as butter. I did all the edges first (those dangerously close to the windings) then roughed out the middle.
I did not measure the material removed but it is enough to feel with my finger - which is enough to fix the problem.

I am soldering up some new hall connections (been getting a lot of backfires) and I will test it out.

My trike is shaping up!

* Ebikes.ca 100V rear blinky
* Mudguard to keep the water/grass/mud off the controller
* Eliminated the twist shift, set to 11T
* Swapped front chain ring for 50T
* Changed angle of steering for a more damped response
* Rebuilt Lipo pack for two packs that are 12S 15Ah
* Build up 24S BMS
* Swapped left hand throttle to a half twist
* Installed reverse switch on right grip
* Lowered air pressure from 60psi to 40psi
* Tightened up all the factory fasteners that were very loose
* Rebuilt battery stand - dropped 1.5", moved forward 3" - no traction issues
* Resurrected HD camera for some "Grass burnouts". I have a tiny hill in my front yard and I am perfecting the 360

I was going to do a build log but I already have like 20 bikes and they are all morphs of each other so it is hard to separate one from the other.


-methods

 

[kfong]

Methods, that's funny I was going to suggest using a dremel. Glad you went the safer approach. I buy those cheap diamond bits. They last a long time and can pretty much grind through anything in a very short amount of time. My dremel is one of my favorite tools to fix stuff.

Enoob, kiteboard is taking over the windsurf scene here as well. I still like to do both just like I still ski even though I picked up snowboarding a while back. I'm waiting for a big snowfall so I can take the kite and snowboard out to a field. Once the lakes freeze over here. I'll be kiting on them. I was fun last year, but had a scare going too far out on lake St. Clair. I kept seeing dark patches of ice where there was no snow, it took me a while to realize those were breaks in the ice. I stayed close to shore after that. One week later there was no ice. So I was pushing it a little more then I should have. If we get good ice without snow I'm even prepared for that. I took an MBS mountainboard and mounted ice blades on it a while back. I used that with my windsurf sails and was clocked going over 35mph one year. I'm going to see if a kite will work on it this year.

Nice setup you have, you know I met the legendary Robbie Naish, many years back while windsufing in Maui. We were at the local hitech board shop and he had just came back from a morning surf session. I had him sign one of the mags with his picture on it, really cool guy. Saw him again in Maui a few years later on a kite. This was new to us at the time and we all thought it was stupid with the long lines you had to deal with, but once you try it. It's very addicting. The new kites are also way safer than the old ones I had. I actually tried to kite a few years later once the kites became more commercial but ended up being dragged in the water and one time on the beach. That was the end of that, until I read how better the kites are these days. So 2 years ago I was back, I also learned the hard way. I was on a very short and narrow board. This alone kept me from advancing for a while.

I know the video you’re talking about, he was lucky he didn’t get hurt more than he did. The updraft took him over a hundred feet as I recall, it was a freak weather anomaly.

 

[methods]

Damn!

The wheel was spinning just as free as can be.
I was doing a little lawn 360 video and when I flipped the cart I most have dislodged the motor somehow. You can clearly hear it on the video - one minute it it sounds fine (2A freewheel) right after I eat shit it sounds loud and coggy (20A freewheel).

Ok... I will take it apart AGAIN :?

-methods

 

[enoob]

i just had ginger bread come out my nose laughing at that one.

ok you know what im with AussieJester (and yes i know your watching AJ GET BACK HERE ) but i say we all chip in and get methods a video web cam rigged to and permanently attached to his controller so that when ever he fires up his ebike video is made and stored. even better lets figure out wifi so it just automatically dumps to a server as soon as it gets in range, never know when he may irreparably damage the recording device.

 

[methods]

Here is the video.
16Mb

Methods rubbing his face in the grass

A few grass burnouts then me eating shit. Just a nice little tipover - nothing worth waiting for if you are on some sort of archaic internet.

Oh yea - and I dont want to hear any crying about your mama's YouTube or quick time or video compression.... It has good picture, good sound, and it was edited with free software I dont care if it could be 10kb streaming from PooTube.

-methods

EDIT: Took me 3 seconds to download 16MB uncached. I have 20Mbit down 2Mbit up cable.

 

[methods]

Hmmmmmm..... 20A freewheel current (methods scratches head)



One second everything is fine
Apply heavy side loading to hub
Hub now sucks
Conclusion?



I HATE X5's !

There is another stop that scraped about 80 degrees over.
Simply tried to make two object occupy the same spot at the same time and failed.

That is like the 25,000 time I have had to go through this shit.
And I just soldered on a really nice hall connector. :?

-methods

 

[methods]

Ok - I am cutting spokes right now for a drilled and fan cooled 7 turn 9C in a 20" wheel.
Torque will be the same, top speed will be 10mph faster
Damn... cutting and threading 36 spokes is a lot of work :?

Guess I will run 12g through the axle while I am at it.

-methods

 

[kfong]

Bummer, looks like you were having fun though. I’ve been tempted to buy a trike, but just don’t have anyplace in the garage for it. It would be like having a go cart without the law on your back. “It’s just a bike officer”

 

[bigmoose]

You can lock the rear brake and stand it against the wall if space is at a premium.

 

[kfong]

Problem is all my wall space is taken, have to do some serious organizing but if you've seen my garage there isn't much to work with. If I didn't need to park my car in the winter I would have room, but priorities just won't allow such. You should see how much room I even allow for the car. It’s like the Star Trek movie docking the Enterprise. I can’t even open my doors all the way when I get out of the car. I have 3 bikes hanging in the garage at the moment, two in the house that I’m working on. They will eventually have to be kept in the garage and I only see getting rid of one bike when that happens. There is also all my windsurf, kiteboard and other sports stuff. It would be tough to make anymore room.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Bummer on the break there. Did something shift on the axle, or did the side load just do it during the crash? Makes a divorced driveline seem better suited for crashing.

 

[steveo]

nooooo.... not another x5

what they heck did you get in there ?

-steveo

 

[liveforphysics]

A bicycle can barely apply a side-load to a hub, unless you're doing something like bunny-hopping and kicking it out to the side and landing.

A low to the ground trike can apply lots and lots of side loading to a hub.

 

[kfong]

Yeah, I'll have to agree with the sideload problem. In the video as long as you were spinning the wheels it seemed to be able to take the load. But as soon as you hit a snag the force of the impact seems to have done it in. I wonder if the 9C will fair any better?

 

[methods]

Say goodbye to the X5. This time I swear off for good.


View attachment 7
View attachment 6

I pulled 12g through the axle

View attachment 5


I calculated, cut, and threaded up a set of spokes for the 20" Big City rim.
To fix the offset problem I went with an 80mm spoke on the left and a 76mm spoke on the right
I have officially now "paid for" my spoke cutting machine - this is the second full set I have made.








Can anyone see at this point how I screwed the pooch majorly???

The offset is right, but DAMN! The nuts and washers wont fit over the hall connector :?
I had done perfect work too....
Ok, cut it all off



-methods

 

[methods]

I got the hub built onto the bike around midnight.




20" 9x7 VS 20" 5305
88V 100A
Both drilled
Same tire

X5 @ 40mph freewheel
9C @ 50mph freewheel

I took the trike out around 1am
It was a wet foggy night and ambient temperature was around 4C/

As you would expect the slightly higher KV 9C cant come off the line like the X5 can.
That said, after about 3mph the 9C outperforms the X5
The peak thrust may not be as high but the power band is wider so it "feels" faster.
Where the X5 would start to taper around 25mph the 9C keeps pulling.

I hammered it hard and never saw temps above 125C on the windings.
That said - I dont know if this would hold up on a hot day......
I think once I finish the fan cooling this will be the setup to have.

X5 $500
9C $200

X5 Heavy
9C Light

X5 Poor engineering
9C Well engineered

X5 too wide for external fans
9C Skinny enough to fit a ducted fan on the disk side



-methods

 

[steveo]

dam! .. sweet ride man ... I wish i had a kmx .. there awsome .. I was gona grab one in the summer .. however .. i don't know where i would store that thing because of the size...

a 9c on that size rim is pertty good.. on my star/delta bike i run that motor in a 16" rim with a 3" tire .. basically a 20" .. I could weelie the bike with the turnigy lipos behind the seat .. probably would do it even if the batties are on the front!

Its a great motor .. however .. don't offroad with it ... i almost fried my 9c .. i think i had 3/4 throttle .. about 100amps ..for 20 secs .. i almost lit the coil .. litterly .. (it was a bit muddy) ..

I know my x5 would of ripped though it ..

despite the weight between the motors .. i'm all about the x5 .. sux you have had such bad experience with them .. i've owned about 5 of them .. and none have ever failed me .. i've just sold them off .. and know i'm finally at the x5306!! .. i can hit a wheelie at about 30-40 amps .. the torque is Even more insane the the 5305 you had!! .. and i have a new gen!

hears a few pic to lighted up things about the x5's !!

oh .. and did i mention the new motors are sealed from water very well .. both sides have a seal .. and theres is silicone from factory around the wires on the axel...

oh .. and this is my new ride .. full photo... i've kept thngs in the dark till i get the new controller & battery done ..

-steveo

 

[kfong]

Wow, Steveo. looks good. What was the size of the dropout on the X5306. I thought they might of been too big to fit on a standard 135cm dropout. More info on the A123's. What do you think the expected run time will be with the packs. One of the reasons I've been avoiding the bigger watt motors is the distances I loose. What was the weight of that motor, It does look heavy in the back. I assume the A123 will be placed back there as well? Looks like a bike built to climb big ass hills. I can't imagine the size of the pack needed to keep that monster fed, but keeping the wheel diameter down will also keep the current down as well. How's it like to pedal it without power? Keep us posted. It would be cool to have a bike close to a motorcross which is what yours has progressed to.

 

[steveo]

Hey

The motor fit right in no problem!! .. this motor has a slimmer casing .. thus why i got the disc brake in there

I'm very happy with the efficency .. I've run like 1 cycle with this motor before winter .. just shy of 8ah ..i was almost at 25km .. and thats with uncapped current limit... This motor will preform excellent even at 50 amps ... the torque is so great at low end!!!

reason why its a 20" rim .. and 5306 is to get the ultimate efficency out of an x5; and i was looking to do a high voltage setup as well.. i'm not gona set any speed records .. u want something .. fast enough .. off road use i will do a bit of .. but mostly on road.. and if i get this 44s pack going .. i could run it at 145.2 nominal voltage .. or a can parrallel the pack for 72v .. but long range!!

-steveo

 

[methods]

When you said 5306 he thought you meant X6 - which is double wide - hence the question.

I was jocking the new V2 disk hubs too Steveo - I have owned (and smoked) both V1 and V2.
Lets see what happens when you start to drive the V2 with ultra high power. I spun that stator off the axle with an Infineon - which has a very soft start compared to a Kelly. My guess is that your tune may change if you decide to run 126V "uncorked".

Time will tell.



-methods