A whole new level of spun axles - what 10KW does to an X5

[steveo]

Hey Methods,

I don't know how you treat your x5 .. lol .. but i never have problem .. and i doubt i will.!!

then again .. if you broke it .. its possible

I will run if all goes well 35lbs of a123 battery 4p 44s ..

20" rim size ... x5306 ... about 50-75 amps .. should give me insane torque and good speed because of the high voltage ..

I doubt i will break anything .. if anything .. maybe a little wheelie.. i remember when i did 133v @ 50 amps .. was way fast for me ..and torque was good cosidering the amp draw...

-steveo

 

[methods]

I am sure it will be fine at only 50A
I was under the impression that you were going to go "Uncapped" which I translate as "no current limit".

-methods

 

[steveo]

I am sure it will be fine at only 50A
I was under the impression that you were going to go "Uncapped" which I translate as "no current limit".

-methods

i could .. but it may be to much power.. i want to accelerate really fast ... not wheelie .... and fall really fast...

i will tweak the current as i go!

-steveo

 

[methods]

Can you post pictures and specs on your 16" 9C?

Tire brand?
Rim brand?


I would like to lace one of these up next week.
Only 16" rims I can find are for kids bikes - I want something for a tank!
Are the tires "kids" balloon tires or serious reliable tires?

As soon as I know the rim I can calculate/cut the spokes

-methods

 

[kfong]

That's going to be a nice bike for the trails Steveo, post pics of your battery setup when your done, or do you have a build thread already going? Battery placement is going to be difficult with that many cells. If it's all in the back, handeling might be an issue. I don't see a lot of room in the frame unless you plan to put them on the sides. A custom enclosure similar to a motorcycle fuel tank would be cool, but I had issues with hitting my knees on my wattmeter and had to move it out of the way, so pack placement and pedaling is going to be critical. It would distribute the weight a little better. I want a full DH bike eventually with long suspension travel and monstrous torque and enough run time to be in the woods for several hours. I’ve been keeping a lookout for just the right bike frame. My current build should be pretty good and should be ready when spring comes along. It's a BMC 600w T version. I went with Konions for better space utilization. I was able to put the packs in the frame of my bike. I also made a secondary pack for the rear rack so I can go for long distances. I estimate I should have +30 miles with some pedaling.

I picked up the Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv recently. Seems like a nice motor, bigger than I thought. I will be planning to put that on a Tidal Force if I have time this winter. It has even less room in the frame for batteries so it will be interesting on how it ends up.

 

[steveo]

Hey Methods,

after digging for a bit on the forums .. i found the photos i posted a while back .. i hope this helps..!!

if you need the aluminum rim without stator .. i have a spare i think if you want it ?

-steveo

 

[methods]

Oh yea - I remember those pics.
I thought you were saying that you were able to actually lace a 9C into a 16" rim.
Gary and I have been talking about doing that.... I just did not want to spend an hour cutting/threading spokes to find out it doesn't work

I am going to try to find a 16" rim and see if I can get it to lace up without too much bend in the spokes. Maybe I will just cut 8 spokes for a test.

Seems like that is a wide Scooter tire right?
probably would not fit on a 1.75" rim.

-methods

 

[steveo]

Oh yea - I remember those pics.
I thought you were saying that you were able to actually lace a 9C into a 16" rim.
Gary and I have been talking about doing that.... I just did not want to spend an hour cutting/threading spokes to find out it doesn't work

I am going to try to find a 16" rim and see if I can get it to lace up without too much bend in the spokes. Maybe I will just cut 8 spokes for a test.

Seems like that is a wide Scooter tire right?
probably would not fit on a 1.75" rim.

-methods

the tire is 3"

i've fit a 2.25" kids tire on it .. looks a little weired .. but it works fine .. not any good tire selection for 16" tire...

is this for that kmx?

-steve0

 

[methods]

I am going to go with larger wheels on the KMX to help the handling

This would be for better suspension on a folder bike.

-methods

 

[johnrobholmes]

Should be able to lace a 9c into a 16" rim. It will have like 30mm spokes, but should be do-able.

 

[steveo]

Should be able to lace a 9c into a 16" rim. It will have like 30mm spokes, but should be do-able.

good luck on this methods .. a 20" is difficult as is .. noticed how i did the spokes on my x5!!! .. u used washers .. and the nipples of the spokes near the hub face the inner part of the hub .. this make for a much stronger job .. you will have the bend the spokes to do this ..

-steveo

 

[johnrobholmes]

For the 16" rim you won't be able to lace the spokes heads in (outbound spoke) without drilling out the rim for the angle.

The hub flanges are 31mm apart OC. The spokes need to be 30mm for a 16" Rhyno lite rim. This almost makes an isosceles triangle. It should be plenty stiff with all inbound spokes.



You should just use a 16 or 17" motorcycle rim and be done with it. I laced up a 16" for a buddy and it was just perfect.

 

[gibbed]

Can you post pictures and specs on your 16" 9C?

Tire brand?
Rim brand?

I would like to lace one of these up next week.
Only 16" rims I can find are for kids bikes - I want something for a tank!
Are the tires "kids" balloon tires or serious reliable tires?

As soon as I know the rim I can calculate/cut the spokes

-methods

As another note, Sun makes a 16" rhyno lite rim. However, it is very difficult to find it. I plan on running the instant start 18 fet controller I bought from you on a 16 inch kid's bmx with a 180 Kv turnigy, using a single stage reduction.

 

[johnrobholmes]

dans comp carries the 16" kids rim Rhyno lite.

 

[Arlo1]

Oh yea - I remember those pics.
I thought you were saying that you were able to actually lace a 9C into a 16" rim.
Gary and I have been talking about doing that.... I just did not want to spend an hour cutting/threading spokes to find out it doesn't work

I am going to try to find a 16" rim and see if I can get it to lace up without too much bend in the spokes. Maybe I will just cut 8 spokes for a test.

Seems like that is a wide Scooter tire right?
probably would not fit on a 1.75" rim.

-methods

Hey did you see my 2.5x16 tires fro mopeds mounted on my bike?

 

[Arlo1]

[Next time you're in the Seattle area, I gotta get you in a shifter-kart. Do neck exercises before you come, and bring a neck-brace for afterward.
Your not far from me either! I am on my way!


In the spring when tracks dry out and open, come down and I will leave you with black and blue sides, a vicious neck ache, a smile that can't be wiped off your face. A 250cc shifter kart is really that good. I put one half-under the outer fence at a track once, and even with chainlink wires sticking into my thighs in multiple places, I not only couldn't stop smiling and laughing, but I was all ready thinking about how I could make it faster as the track safety guys are trying to cut the fence away. lol

Shifter-karts = FTMFW


Just try to tell me you don't want to be doing 100mph sliding on your neck Arlo. I know you're the type who lives for this sh*t.

Hey thanks man, Yeh I will figure out something I moved to Vancouver island and one of the biggest bonuses was suposed to be the big shifter Kart scene but its almost all gone they have started to work on bringing some of it back but I missed out on the F1 type race they had through the streats or Port Alberni but I do plan to find a rolling chassis or two I want to electrify one and maybe use my yz490 motor in another! As for my neck I landed on my head a hand full of times snowbording earlier this week so its gerring stronger lol and I started to hit the gym again now that the bmx is electric I need it lol!

 

[Seriousknot]

I know this is an old thread, but I will post this anyway in case someone has this problem again. My friend Don Stringfellow, an old Bonneville racer, (278 mph in stock bodied Firebird, Banks Turbocharging) says that 'back in the day' the guys used to have problems shearing the keys out of harmonic balancers when they ran huge blowers. The answer was to use a 'Dutch Screw'. What the heck is that you say? A hole was drilled exactly on the seam, splitting the difference between the crankshaft and the balancer. Then it was tapped with threads and a screw was installed. This is a very simple, yet ingenius fix. it will stop any rotation on the shaft. Be sure to use blue Locktite so the screw will stay in place.

 

[EVan]

I have seen that used on hydraulic pistons to stop them from unscrewing themselves from the shaft (obviously you can't put a set-screw through the shaft).

On the x5 it looks like you would have room for a set-screw, so maybe that is preferable.

 

[Seriousknot]

Yeah, if the axle itself is spinning, then a keyway might work, beyond that perhaps a custom machined axle shaft with splines. I don't have to worry about either yet. I am still studying which way to go with a controller for the 5305.

 

[knoxie]

tiz an old thread I must have missed it? whilst I love the trike and have had a KMX for years they do put a lot of side load on the rear wheel, I think the combination of the power you were putting through the motor and the load you were putting on it is the key here, I understand how you feel as you have had issues with the X5 however if used within its limits its a great motor its a tad unfair to criticise it considering the torture you were putting it under

The 9C is also a fine motor however many of them have been toasted also! all these little ebike motors we abuse simply don't and wont last, nobody can expect them to and shouldn't be disappointed if they do fail under such duress to be honest.

Great trike though and nice to see you wearing a helmet

 

[methods]

I spun the axle with the X5 on my Kona Stinky. No side loading, just pure torque. I then crashed the windings into the side cover with the KMX - obviously due to the side loading. Both of those were totally avoidable mechanical failures that just suck. I have yet to have a mechanical failure with a 9C - though I have melted the windings on 5 of them now. I think my criticism is fair when you consider the context... yea, sure, if we all run 36V and a 20A current limit these things are indestructible - but they also weigh a ton and cost a fortune.

Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, watt for watt, and mile for mile the 9C beats the X5 on every account except for raw power handling. I make that statement having 10,000 hard ebike miles under my belt - every mile of it at 88V 100A. But - of course that is just my opinion - and it is based on my riding style and power settings.

What I want is the copper of an X5 with the mechanics of a 9C - I am hoping that the new HS3540 will be just that.

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

Just buy some copper wire and wrap your own nineC and be done with it!
That is after some forced air cooling of course!

 

[knoxie]

I agree the 9C is a great motor as is the X5 if you operate them within their limits and for sure the X5 is too heavy no denying that methods, however it is a well proven very reliable unit even when operated well above its rated values, it was simply never designed to take 10KW of power neither is the 9C as you have found out, that was all and as you have found out the X5 can produce more power this in no part due to the increase in copper/magnet size hence therefore it's more costly.

10 KW is moped motorbike power and needs a motor to suit, I am sure the new Xlyte will fit your requirements nicely

 

[Ypedal]

make me a 9C that does not buzz... damit.. it's all i ask.

 

[torker]

make me a 9C that does not buzz... damit.. it's all i ask.

I sure noticed a big increase in weird noises when I modded the shunt in mine. It was relatively quiet at 20 amps. I wonder why it is so much different than the Cryst. 4x series?