A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit

[docnjoj]

Went and picked mine up and all parts are accounted for. It looks like the USPS has been taking lessons from UPS as it appears like several large angry men stomped the box. The two corners were open and I agree with DeVries that at least the outside rim of the package needs to be taped all around. It (the kit) is beautiful design and the hardware fits the threads like it is supposed to! Simply a great job,agniusm! I hope you make a fortune on these kits.As I assemble my 2 6S batteries I will take photos.
otherDoc

 

[agniusm]

I can report the kits are smaller than how these "look" or seem to be on video or pics. So, mine came Thursday, and I did not have to sign. (Must be the package lock box.) :wink:

I have two small plastic bags of hardware for each board. Will have to open & examine 16s boards in better light tomorrow, but everything looks good. Though I have a suggestion about shipping packaging...

IMPORTANT SUGGESTION FOR PARTS LOSS PREVENTION: I suggest taping the tiny plastic baggies of hardware to the inside of a much larger sized baggie (or envelope) too, so the tiny baggies can't slide around and get trapped or caught into the seams of the shipping box. The four end-seams of my (book?) box were not sealed by tape and bowed open creating an opening for the tiny parts baggies to slide into, so the tiny baggies might have been caught in those open seams and could have "leaked" & lost the hardware contents of small parts if trapped/caught cut & damaged at one of the four open end seams. It is definitely possible the tiny baggies could have been pulled out of the package or torn open at least partially & the contents lost. I suggest putting the tiny baggies inside a bigger baggie or big envelope inside the package to prevent this.

There will be all bolts, blocks, spacers, connectors + pins, heat shrink wrap included.

I didn't get any shrink wrap, which was initially planned to be included in the kits? Is heat shrink available for my kit size of 16s? Is there anything else not included with the original plans for these kits???

Look forward to getting my cells to assemble the battery. This looks like a very good kit design, imo, of course, actual assembly & use will be the "true test" for a solid recommendation.

The conducting material on the circuit board is what grade aluminum or ??? Thanks for offering these kits.

Thanks for letting regarding packaging. I decided not to include theat shrink, page 4, fifth post from the top.

 

[deVries]

I decided not to include heat shrink, page 4, fifth post from the top.

No problem. (I forgot reading that.)

The conducting material on the circuit board is what specification or grade aluminum or ???

Thanks.

I know Ohzee has cells now to make his kit, so I'm looking forward to otherDoc & Ohzee for their assembly experience & tips.

Ohzee, please take video of assembly & post please! 24s needs to be on video. :lol:

 

[agniusm]

I decided not to include heat shrink, page 4, fifth post from the top.

No problem. (I forgot reading that.)

The conducting material on the circuit board is what specification or grade aluminum or ???

Thanks.

I know Ohzee has cells now to make his kit, so I'm looking forward to otherDoc & Ohzee for their assembly experience & tips.

Ohzee, please take video of assembly & post please! 24s needs to be on video. :lol:

The board is a standart PCB with copper layer and applied rose coating to protect from oxidation etc. The blocks are 6082 T6 alloy, not extreamly good as conductor, but 1xxx series alloy which has conductivity of 62 (compared to copper's 100) is very soft and not possible to thread or machine etc.

 

[agniusm]

Went and picked mine up and all parts are accounted for. It looks like the USPS has been taking lessons from UPS as it appears like several large angry men stomped the box. The two corners were open and I agree with DeVries that at least the outside rim of the package needs to be taped all around. It (the kit) is beautiful design and the hardware fits the threads like it is supposed to! Simply a great job,agniusm! I hope you make a fortune on these kits.As I assemble my 2 6S batteries I will take photos.
otherDoc

Thank you for that. It's a reward when someone appreciates my work. Noted on the packaging, will have to think of something to protect it. I am not running after a fortune, i think more you have more you want to infinity. If i can earn enough to afford and build stuff like this, thats about enough.

 

[deVries]

Thank you for that. It's a reward when someone appreciates my work. Noted on the packaging, will have to think of something to protect it.

If you use the same box, then just put the tiny baggies inside a big paper sealed envelope or use a sandwich size zip-lock seal baggie. Nothing can slip out & is double-walled protected, and you can use the same box.

Hey, I want to 2nd otherDoc that these are very nice kits too. If anyone is interested in your kits, then I recommend they order now! I think the quality & design of these kits justify ordering now. 8) (I just wish I had my cells now to assemble these 16s batteries. I will be doing so in about 2-3 weeks.)

The blocks are 6082 T6 alloy, not extreamly good as conductor, but 1xxx series alloy which has conductivity of 62 (compared to copper's 100) is very soft and not possible to thread or machine etc.

But the blocks don't need to carry any load anyway, right???

otherDoc & ohzee: If you shoot video of your assembly, then I can edit the video for you free & upload to youtube.

 

[docnjoj]

I'm just going to do still photos since agniusms video is pretty clear on how to assemble the kit. I will try to include some details though in close up.
otherDoc

 

[ohzee]

Yea id be happy to take pictures , but doing a video sounds like work and this hobby is supposed to be fun not work.

My BMS is a week or more out as well eva has to build it. Still cant wait to get my hands on the package today mailman
should come anytime.

 

[agniusm]

Thank you for that. It's a reward when someone appreciates my work. Noted on the packaging, will have to think of something to protect it.

If you use the same box, then just put the tiny baggies inside a big paper sealed envelope or use a sandwich size zip-lock seal baggie. Nothing can slip out & is double-walled protected, and you can use the same box.

Hey, I want to 2nd otherDoc that these are very nice kits too. If anyone is interested in your kits, then I recommend they order now! I think the quality & design of these kits justify ordering now. 8) (I just wish I had my cells now to assemble these 16s batteries. I will be doing so in about 2-3 weeks.)

The blocks are 6082 T6 alloy, not extreamly good as conductor, but 1xxx series alloy which has conductivity of 62 (compared to copper's 100) is very soft and not possible to thread or machine etc.

But the blocks don't need to carry any load anyway, right???

otherDoc & ohzee: If you shoot video of your assembly, then I can edit the video for you free & upload to youtube.

The blocks don't carry any load except end ones. this i why i made them beefier. I ordered some balancing wires from hobbyling before i posted your kits, still no sign of them. China post services suck. I am anctios to get my pack charged up and do some real tests on the kit and cells.

 

[docnjoj]

I pre-ordered some of the 6S balance cable from EPBuddy and they arrived in 3 days. good quality and silicone too. It is just a matter of soldering in your pins and connecting the leads to the battery with your 6S plug. I'll bet they could get you balance wires in a week to Lithiuania.
otherDoc

 

[agniusm]

I pre-ordered some of the 6S balance cable from EPBuddy and they arrived in 3 days. good quality and silicone too. It is just a matter of soldering in your pins and connecting the leads to the battery with your 6S plug. I'll bet they could get you balance wires in a week to Lithiuania.
otherDoc

Yes, just solder all pins and insert into the plug, but check which one goes where. After, place your meters negalive on bms JST connector B- (dissconected from bms) and check with positive one if you have cell voltage increments until you reach your pack voltage.

 

[docnjoj]

Yes You can bet I'm going to measure 3 times and cut once here. I am not going to use a BMS but the Hyperion charger set for 12S. I figured with BMS systems costing between 60 and 200 bucks and us using a standard fixed route with usually about 13 amp/hours for 21 miles I should be able not to have problems. I do use a Whatmeter to keep track of overall wh/hours and amp/hours when we ride.
otherDoc

 

[ohzee]

ok mine just showed up.. I grabbed some pics of the packing as there is a quarter size hole in one side where anything small could have easily come out..

hoping it's all there.

*** ninja edit

Ok looking good. Luckily the 2 bags of parts were larger then the hole , but it was close and the right toss I could see it have coming out.

WoW what craftmanship. It won't be until Sunday , but I promise a good amount of pictures as I put her together.. Going camping tonight or
it would be sooner.

Great job on this I am going to have one sexy battery when I am done.

 

[deVries]

Luckily the 2 bags of parts were larger then the hole , but it was close and the right toss I could see it have coming out.

The package is not really a box. It is a cardboard envelope designed for shipping books, and that's why the 4 "book edges" weren't sealed. Edit: Small baggies w/parts should be put & sealed inside a big paper envelope or inside a handmade envelope of a large piece of paper folded & sealed with tape.

 

[agniusm]

Any news on boys building batts?

 

[whatever]

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another thread on 20ah a123s that I mentioned I had a spark on one pack when a metal object touched an aluminium tab and part of the plastic outer case. I've just finished off a 48v 20ahr a123 pack and I found the source of this spark.
The plastic outer sleeving of the cells appears to have a connection to the copper in the pack. There is a very very thin ( a few microns) clear plastic that is the first layer touching the the inner cells/tabs. If you interfer with the plastic outer covering when connecting cells together there is a very good chance of developing a short.
I'll give a bit of detail how I found the issue.
In my 48v pack, I needed to disonnect in the middle of the pack for charging ( using turnigy/hobbyking chargers) so that I have two 24v packs for charging.
The high amp switch inbetween the two 24v packs when 'off' I was still getting some voltage going through the pack, hence there was a short somewhere.
The source of the short was where I had punched a hole in the aluminium tab, since my tabs were very short, the hole I punched for a bolt went maybe 2mm across the plastic at the base of the aluminium tab.
After the bolt was done up tight it turns out the outerplastic ( having a connection to the copper somehow) was shorting with the aluminium tab.
With a very small screw driver i could see a tiny spark if I touched the aluminium tab and where the plastic outer casing had been interferred with by my hole punching. I think the aluminium within the plastic outer covering ( probably vapour deposited) being very thin layer of aluminium ( or similar metal) can carry a tiny current ( probably high resistance) so even though its a tiny current the voltage across the short could be quite high.
Any how if any one else has issue with some hard to find shorts, check the outerplastic covering in particular anywhere where its been cut, I landed up using nuetral cure silastic along any parts of the outer plastic that might be potential problem.
Because the plastic layer that insulates the aluminium outer plastic from the cells is only a few micron thick I suspect others will also see similar problems.
Cells that haven't had tabs cut shouldn't be a problem but any of the seconds that have very short tabs may have this issue.
A picture of what i've tried to describe would help I know, will try to organise one.

 

[whatever]

I just took a pic to show what I was trying to describe


Can some other people do the same test and see if they are also getting voltages along the plastic edge.
When I touch one probe of voltmeter on the aluminium and run the other probe along the plastic edge, I get voltage, it varies quite a bit max just over 3v.
I also did the same test using the copper tab, I was expecting to get no voltage ( assuming the copper was somehow in contact with the plastic outer covering), but I also get a voltage reading, but it only goes up to about 0.5v max.
This seems to happen with all the cells I have ( via a taobao dealer) can some others confirm this, would particularly interested in new a123 20ahr cells, if they
also exhibit this behaviour. It is quite a confusing result, and a source of concern, though I think neutral cure silicon will reduce chance of shorting of tabs via plastic outer covering.

 

[agniusm]

This is irrelevant here. But.... you have damaged teflon insulator and thats why you are getting short. That "plastic" is with reason there. My kit requires the tabs to be 8mm long to get it done properly without damaging insulator. You probably would get away with 6mm tabs me thinks. you had plenty of tab to drill without hitting teflon and aluminum outer shell. I would not use that cell any more.

 

[docnjoj]

Any news on boys building batts?

As usual life gets in the way of hobbies sometimes. I'm working on getting started but family, friends keep showing up. Soon, I hope?
otherDoc

 

[ohzee]

Yea I was camping all weekend myself.. I have one more set of cell charging / balancing then I should be ready to do it.

MY BMS is still being built as well along with shipping from China so I am not in a rush other then the fact it will look so
pretty when done.

I have been checking out all the components.. the threading is superb it's sure going to look nice.

 

[docnjoj]

Hello agniusm
I ran into my first assembly problem. I am missing all the 2mm button head screws for one of the kits. I think it should be about 15 of them . They did come wilt the second kit. Can you tell me the exact size that I should use. I think it is 2mm by 10mm but it am not sure I am reading the micrometer right. Old eyes! Thanks in advance. They don't seem to be availible here but I didn't do a full search, but hex screws in that siz eare readily availible and should also work, I hope. They are 3mm at the thread.
otherDoc

 

[agniusm]

Hello agniusm
I ran into my first assembly problem. I am missing all the 2mm button head screws for one of the kits. I think it should be about 15 of them . They did come wilt the second kit. Can you tell me the exact size that I should use. I think it is 2mm by 10mm but it am not sure I am reading the micrometer right. Old eyes! Thanks in advance. They don't seem to be availible here but I didn't do a full search, but hex screws in that siz eare readily availible and should also work, I hope. They are 3mm at the thread.
otherDoc

Hi, they are 3mm by 10mm screws if you are refering to hex button head screws for 4mm blocks. I am now confused how did i missed them. i was double checking all of the kits not to miss anything. This is unpleasent, sorry.

 

[tomaj]

A general question about those cells.

What is the best way to place them? Vertical, horizontal? Can I make a stack of 108 cells?

 

[jonescg]

tomaj - I believe stacking them is OK, but you wouldn't want to make a stack much higher than about 400 mm (about 54 cells). In auto applications they stand them up, but they still need compression through the pack. I have 48 cells stacked in Voltron but they have a bit of additional support from the boxes they are in.

 

[docnjoj]

Hello agniusm
I ran into my first assembly problem. I am missing all the 2mm button head screws for one of the kits. I think it should be about 15 of them . They did come wilt the second kit. Can you tell me the exact size that I should use. I think it is 2mm by 10mm but it am not sure I am reading the micrometer right. Old eyes! Thanks in advance. They don't seem to be availible here but I didn't do a full search, but hex screws in that siz eare readily availible and should also work, I hope. They are 3mm at the thread.
otherDoc

Hi, they are 3mm by 10mm screws if you are refering to hex button head screws for 4mm blocks. I am now confused how did i missed them. i was double checking all of the kits not to miss anything. This is unpleasent, sorry.

No problem agniusm
We actually have some metric parts in the US . I can either go to my localAce hardware or get them in 2 days from Amazon. All the important parts like the boards and the blocks were fine. It is still a great piece of engineering work and this is a very minor problem.
otherDoc