Rev
1 mW
So here I am breaking cover: long time lurker - first time poster.
I've just joined the world of e-biking by fitting an AFT mid-drive kit to a 2009 Giant Glory. This is my first e-bike build, my first e-bike owned and my first e-bike ridden. Once I came across the concept of e-bikes it just made so much sense to me - I just felt I “got” it and it suited my circumstance perfectly.
I really appreciated reading the many build logs on here and found them incredibly valuable (sometimes even entertaining!) when considering a build, so I’ll do my best to return the favour and contribute to the community knowledge. Please note that the bike is not fully finished yet - it still feels like a test platform - a proof-of-concept. There is a still a lot of tidy up work to be done, but it was just too hard to resist using it already
The Reason:
2014 was an unbelievably challenging year for my family and I. We endured personal setbacks that I wouldn’t wish upon anyone so for me I was looking for a project to occupy my hands and head for a while and which would be a bit of a personal reward. For that (and a number of other) reason(s) I resolved fairly early in the piece that I was going to spend the money the project required and not exert a heap of anxious energy wringing my hands over the dollars. Admittedly that means I could have bought a entry level motor-bike for this money, but this was easier to get past my wife!
I live about a ten minute drive from my work’s office but am fortunate that I have access to a bicycle route that takes a solid hour on the pushy through some fantastic bushland, fire tracks, bicycle paths, along rivers and creeks etc. Plus its safe away from cars. For what is pretty well established suburb I can ride most of the way forgetting that I am anywhere near civilisation - I’m pretty lucky. (If you’re in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne PM me for a pointer). The long, scenic route is 15kms each way, the shorter route (which involves taking more public roads and sharing with cars) is about 7-8kms each way)
I figured if I could create a vehicle that could make my commute to work fun then the mental health benefits would be worth the expense.
The Rationale:
I came within a hair’s breadth of buying the Qulbix Raptor - a hub drive beast (and lets be honest, its not off the table completely!) - as that was the bike that first caught my eye and which I spent the majority of the early days researching. Towards this I bought the Giant Glory with the intention of cannibalising the components off it for a Raptor build (brakes, shocks etc). After a while though I realised that I was jumping way in the deep end for my first bike, let alone build! I hadn’t ridden a DH bike before so was blown away with how solid it felt and then I realised that the Raptor was bigger and heavier again. I wondered if motorising that frame was an option and it was then I discovered that one of the better regarded mid-drive kit manufacturers was based in my home town just down the road.
That was a massive plus - I’m not someone who sleeps well after sending packets of hard earned off to something promised on the internet. There were also other people on the forum who had built with AFT and could report on its performance on tracks and hills I know and could relate easily too.
I eventually became convinced by the mid-drive logic that I’m sure you understand too - light weight means lower power required which means smaller, lighter, (sometimes cheaper) motor & batteries and hopefully less mechanical stress on the components. I figured if Lotus’ Colin Chapman designed an e-bike, a mid-drive would be his configuration!
I was also clear that the performance I wanted was a marginal increase on pushbike speeds - I was not looking to build an 80km/h monster. I want to commute on bike paths without upsetting people or risking collision and I want to ride single track. I can’t do any of that at 80km/h - I also don’t want to have to wear body armour or a full face helmet to work.
The Configuration:
Frame:
2009 Giant Glory. What a beast! It has the thickest downtime you’ll ever see but has a peculiar rear suspension design where the rear shock actually protrudes through the downtube into an inverted turret hanging in front of the bottom bracket. When I first bought this bike it was initially in order to rip its components off so this peculiarity didn’t matter - however it caused some challenges later on.
The thing about this bike is - lets not argue about it - she’s ugly. But for my purposes thats great, because she is cheap! You find me a better spec'ed younger frame bike in Australia for cheaper and I’ll… I don’t know… say “bugger me” I guess.
Anyway I’m pleased with the price. If it broke I’d probably buy another.
Motor:
I bought through AFT. http://www.af-tech.com.au/Products_Ebikes.html
I got excited about e-bike performance, so I do what I think most of us do - we weigh up carefully what our needs and requirements will be, then we go to the list of options and scan to the bottom of the list for the most powerful mutha f$%^ing bad-ass option there is. Then we figure out if we can afford it. Then we justify why we need it.
So, yeah. I don’t mind admitting that I like more power than I need. I’m a car enthusiast so I researched and bought a fast car for my money. Im now also an e-bike enthusiast so… (*evil grin*)
1680 watt kit, e-max upgrades, ceramic bearings, all anodised black which fits my frame perfectly. ISIS crank, Wipperman chain.
Due to my weird rear suspension mount the motor hangs lower than it otherwise would, but the upside is that I can bolt the mount plate to a frame hard-point, instead of the regular downtube clamp that most people use. (To be fair to AFT the customer feedback on the clamp is still very good) I made my own cross brace to fit from steel pipe.
View attachment 4
Battery:
As per AFT’s advise I bought through http://em3ev.com/store/
This (http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=134) battery:
50V 22Ah 29e cell pack. I weighs about 5.5 kgs and is the size of a small thin shoebox.
Also through em3ev I ordered the CAv3.
I pondered the battery mount location for a while. I wasn’t convinced by the backpack option as I was averse to being tethered to the bike and more so after feeling the weight of the battery. I didn’t like that as a commute option. Unfortunately a frame mount wasn’t possible due to the side and shape so that left up on the forks. For protection I bought a pelican-style case and cut-and-shut it down to size and mounted it to the front shock posts.
Its not perfect (and you’ll note that I’ve lashed the case together due to the glue’s separation - temporary solution only) so I think I’ll keep looking for a long term solution, which may mean trying it on my back, but this is getting me out on the bike for now.
View attachment 3
The Experience so Far:
I am new to e-biking. Unlike the impression i get of some (many?) on this forum I am not an engineer or scientist in my day job. I am a reasonably handy, reasonably cluey, but nonetheless ordinary bloke. Some of the setups I read on here dead set frighten me - I didn’t want to build something that needed to be plugged into the flight deck of the Starship Enterprise to charge safely.
I did find getting all the information I needed a challenge, mainly because I didn’t know what I didn’t know and the EV stuff is new tech and new industry - the easy customer experience side will come as the industry matures. I reckon I asked people some pretty stupid questions at times but I thank them all for their patience. (Especially I should acknowledge the people who I made contact with but ultimately didn’t purchase through (or could I say yet?! Thanks and apologies if It caused any inconvenience to Hyena in particular and the guys from Qulbix. At the time I was making enquiries regarding the Raptor they were still midst establishing agent arrangements and testing set ups.)
Feedback on AFT:
I haven’t read any criticism of Jim from AFT - people only say good things and you can tell on speaking with/meeting him that he takes deserved pride in looking after his customers and giving straight answers. He knows the product is reliable and can deliver on its promise so they don't gold-plate things. That means as a customer I develop trust. Little things like advertising the power figures they do: they use the figures the motors can spin away at all day, not the peak power figures that can only be held for a few moments. Jim talks in real world numbers from real world testing and I think is a credit to the e-bike community and industry. It helps me that he is local (I accepted his offer to come around to my house and help review the custom arrangements my frame required) but nothing I have read of reviews on the forum lead me to believe there is a better mid-drive self build kit available. I'd happily point my friends to AFT.
Performance:
Ah so this is where I would have skipped down to if I was reading this! I have only ridden it all of four days so far.
The glory number - top speed! I have hit 55km/h. I know it will go a smidge faster but I wanted the battery to take me further.
I can comfortable sit between 30-40km/h which is a perfect sweet spot for the paths and tracks I want to ride.
I am finding a really unexpected matching of pedal cadence with motor power/efficiency band. Just when the cadence become too fast to pedal in each gear seems to match the motor's sweet spot to change gears for comfortable cruising. Or you can wind the motor out a bit past that in each gear for a faster ride. (That's just a function of its integration with the standard set up on the Glory)
Range:
Yesterday I didn’t take my charger to work. (Other days I have taken the charger and topped up while at work.) I 90% charged it over night (as per the advice of em3ev for batt longevity) and I was running a touch late so I blasted to work pedalling some, but mainly riding it on motor power. I averaged 35km/h for the 15km trip to work and did it in 25 minutes. Thats on twisty bike tracks, some road stretches, some gravel fire track.
On the way home (without any charging in between) I wasn’t under time pressure so explored some single track and took an even longer route home. I rode 20 km at an average 20km/h for almost an hour. Some pedalling and light “commute” mode paying attention to amp draw but also real periods of blasting through the bush (inventing tracks as I went!).
So today I got 35km in total with some really heavy fast riding in there out of a single battery charge. I’ve no doubt I could stretch that significantly in a self imposed “efficiency” mode.
See some screen shots of an exercise app for elevation and speed data.
So - comments welcome!
This bike is not finished yet, but I can’t resist anymore so I’m riding it as is for a bit while the weather is good. Bits and pieces need painting black such as the cross mount I fabricated and the battery pack, and I will in fact be thinking hard about alternate battery mount points. But I thought I'd share some of this while its still a work in progress rather than a finished product.
Anyone want to hit some tracks in Eastern suburbs of Melbourne?
I've just joined the world of e-biking by fitting an AFT mid-drive kit to a 2009 Giant Glory. This is my first e-bike build, my first e-bike owned and my first e-bike ridden. Once I came across the concept of e-bikes it just made so much sense to me - I just felt I “got” it and it suited my circumstance perfectly.
I really appreciated reading the many build logs on here and found them incredibly valuable (sometimes even entertaining!) when considering a build, so I’ll do my best to return the favour and contribute to the community knowledge. Please note that the bike is not fully finished yet - it still feels like a test platform - a proof-of-concept. There is a still a lot of tidy up work to be done, but it was just too hard to resist using it already
The Reason:
2014 was an unbelievably challenging year for my family and I. We endured personal setbacks that I wouldn’t wish upon anyone so for me I was looking for a project to occupy my hands and head for a while and which would be a bit of a personal reward. For that (and a number of other) reason(s) I resolved fairly early in the piece that I was going to spend the money the project required and not exert a heap of anxious energy wringing my hands over the dollars. Admittedly that means I could have bought a entry level motor-bike for this money, but this was easier to get past my wife!
I live about a ten minute drive from my work’s office but am fortunate that I have access to a bicycle route that takes a solid hour on the pushy through some fantastic bushland, fire tracks, bicycle paths, along rivers and creeks etc. Plus its safe away from cars. For what is pretty well established suburb I can ride most of the way forgetting that I am anywhere near civilisation - I’m pretty lucky. (If you’re in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne PM me for a pointer). The long, scenic route is 15kms each way, the shorter route (which involves taking more public roads and sharing with cars) is about 7-8kms each way)
I figured if I could create a vehicle that could make my commute to work fun then the mental health benefits would be worth the expense.
The Rationale:
I came within a hair’s breadth of buying the Qulbix Raptor - a hub drive beast (and lets be honest, its not off the table completely!) - as that was the bike that first caught my eye and which I spent the majority of the early days researching. Towards this I bought the Giant Glory with the intention of cannibalising the components off it for a Raptor build (brakes, shocks etc). After a while though I realised that I was jumping way in the deep end for my first bike, let alone build! I hadn’t ridden a DH bike before so was blown away with how solid it felt and then I realised that the Raptor was bigger and heavier again. I wondered if motorising that frame was an option and it was then I discovered that one of the better regarded mid-drive kit manufacturers was based in my home town just down the road.
That was a massive plus - I’m not someone who sleeps well after sending packets of hard earned off to something promised on the internet. There were also other people on the forum who had built with AFT and could report on its performance on tracks and hills I know and could relate easily too.
I eventually became convinced by the mid-drive logic that I’m sure you understand too - light weight means lower power required which means smaller, lighter, (sometimes cheaper) motor & batteries and hopefully less mechanical stress on the components. I figured if Lotus’ Colin Chapman designed an e-bike, a mid-drive would be his configuration!
I was also clear that the performance I wanted was a marginal increase on pushbike speeds - I was not looking to build an 80km/h monster. I want to commute on bike paths without upsetting people or risking collision and I want to ride single track. I can’t do any of that at 80km/h - I also don’t want to have to wear body armour or a full face helmet to work.
The Configuration:
Frame:
2009 Giant Glory. What a beast! It has the thickest downtime you’ll ever see but has a peculiar rear suspension design where the rear shock actually protrudes through the downtube into an inverted turret hanging in front of the bottom bracket. When I first bought this bike it was initially in order to rip its components off so this peculiarity didn’t matter - however it caused some challenges later on.
The thing about this bike is - lets not argue about it - she’s ugly. But for my purposes thats great, because she is cheap! You find me a better spec'ed younger frame bike in Australia for cheaper and I’ll… I don’t know… say “bugger me” I guess.
Anyway I’m pleased with the price. If it broke I’d probably buy another.
Motor:
I bought through AFT. http://www.af-tech.com.au/Products_Ebikes.html
I got excited about e-bike performance, so I do what I think most of us do - we weigh up carefully what our needs and requirements will be, then we go to the list of options and scan to the bottom of the list for the most powerful mutha f$%^ing bad-ass option there is. Then we figure out if we can afford it. Then we justify why we need it.
So, yeah. I don’t mind admitting that I like more power than I need. I’m a car enthusiast so I researched and bought a fast car for my money. Im now also an e-bike enthusiast so… (*evil grin*)
1680 watt kit, e-max upgrades, ceramic bearings, all anodised black which fits my frame perfectly. ISIS crank, Wipperman chain.
Due to my weird rear suspension mount the motor hangs lower than it otherwise would, but the upside is that I can bolt the mount plate to a frame hard-point, instead of the regular downtube clamp that most people use. (To be fair to AFT the customer feedback on the clamp is still very good) I made my own cross brace to fit from steel pipe.
View attachment 4
Battery:
As per AFT’s advise I bought through http://em3ev.com/store/
This (http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=134) battery:
50V 22Ah 29e cell pack. I weighs about 5.5 kgs and is the size of a small thin shoebox.
Also through em3ev I ordered the CAv3.
I pondered the battery mount location for a while. I wasn’t convinced by the backpack option as I was averse to being tethered to the bike and more so after feeling the weight of the battery. I didn’t like that as a commute option. Unfortunately a frame mount wasn’t possible due to the side and shape so that left up on the forks. For protection I bought a pelican-style case and cut-and-shut it down to size and mounted it to the front shock posts.
Its not perfect (and you’ll note that I’ve lashed the case together due to the glue’s separation - temporary solution only) so I think I’ll keep looking for a long term solution, which may mean trying it on my back, but this is getting me out on the bike for now.
View attachment 3
The Experience so Far:
I am new to e-biking. Unlike the impression i get of some (many?) on this forum I am not an engineer or scientist in my day job. I am a reasonably handy, reasonably cluey, but nonetheless ordinary bloke. Some of the setups I read on here dead set frighten me - I didn’t want to build something that needed to be plugged into the flight deck of the Starship Enterprise to charge safely.
I did find getting all the information I needed a challenge, mainly because I didn’t know what I didn’t know and the EV stuff is new tech and new industry - the easy customer experience side will come as the industry matures. I reckon I asked people some pretty stupid questions at times but I thank them all for their patience. (Especially I should acknowledge the people who I made contact with but ultimately didn’t purchase through (or could I say yet?! Thanks and apologies if It caused any inconvenience to Hyena in particular and the guys from Qulbix. At the time I was making enquiries regarding the Raptor they were still midst establishing agent arrangements and testing set ups.)
Feedback on AFT:
I haven’t read any criticism of Jim from AFT - people only say good things and you can tell on speaking with/meeting him that he takes deserved pride in looking after his customers and giving straight answers. He knows the product is reliable and can deliver on its promise so they don't gold-plate things. That means as a customer I develop trust. Little things like advertising the power figures they do: they use the figures the motors can spin away at all day, not the peak power figures that can only be held for a few moments. Jim talks in real world numbers from real world testing and I think is a credit to the e-bike community and industry. It helps me that he is local (I accepted his offer to come around to my house and help review the custom arrangements my frame required) but nothing I have read of reviews on the forum lead me to believe there is a better mid-drive self build kit available. I'd happily point my friends to AFT.
Performance:
Ah so this is where I would have skipped down to if I was reading this! I have only ridden it all of four days so far.
The glory number - top speed! I have hit 55km/h. I know it will go a smidge faster but I wanted the battery to take me further.
I can comfortable sit between 30-40km/h which is a perfect sweet spot for the paths and tracks I want to ride.
I am finding a really unexpected matching of pedal cadence with motor power/efficiency band. Just when the cadence become too fast to pedal in each gear seems to match the motor's sweet spot to change gears for comfortable cruising. Or you can wind the motor out a bit past that in each gear for a faster ride. (That's just a function of its integration with the standard set up on the Glory)
Range:
Yesterday I didn’t take my charger to work. (Other days I have taken the charger and topped up while at work.) I 90% charged it over night (as per the advice of em3ev for batt longevity) and I was running a touch late so I blasted to work pedalling some, but mainly riding it on motor power. I averaged 35km/h for the 15km trip to work and did it in 25 minutes. Thats on twisty bike tracks, some road stretches, some gravel fire track.
On the way home (without any charging in between) I wasn’t under time pressure so explored some single track and took an even longer route home. I rode 20 km at an average 20km/h for almost an hour. Some pedalling and light “commute” mode paying attention to amp draw but also real periods of blasting through the bush (inventing tracks as I went!).
So today I got 35km in total with some really heavy fast riding in there out of a single battery charge. I’ve no doubt I could stretch that significantly in a self imposed “efficiency” mode.
See some screen shots of an exercise app for elevation and speed data.
So - comments welcome!
This bike is not finished yet, but I can’t resist anymore so I’m riding it as is for a bit while the weather is good. Bits and pieces need painting black such as the cross mount I fabricated and the battery pack, and I will in fact be thinking hard about alternate battery mount points. But I thought I'd share some of this while its still a work in progress rather than a finished product.
Anyone want to hit some tracks in Eastern suburbs of Melbourne?
