AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor
- Thread starter John Bozi
- Start date
John Bozi
100 kW
Not sure about the charger sorry, not mine but I can ask for you.
I just want to say that I am finally pretty dam happy with my set up after about a year of stuffing around.
My tips for people wanting to build a great bike are:
18s2p without question. 12s after top charge goes quickly is not enough power. 18s1p is ok for a 20amp set up but thats gutless on even bitumen hills.
18s2p with regen even better. I just finished a 25km off road mountainous one hour ride, used 6ah, 9% regen. The time before with Newb at one stage of the ride I was over 11% regen. Anyways if I kept this up I'd probably get 40kms out of it. Yes I pedalled too.
Major thing on the cards is I want to go to 20" rear wheel, for added hill climbing torque and take off efficiency. And even more importantly:
I MUST DRILL THE HUB SIDE COVERS. It is a major bummer that I hit over 100* so fast on big mountain strips.
a note on REGEN:
I observe my temperature at the top of mountain descends and then at the base with out throttle. The temperature does not go up. Yes regen probably does heat the motor but it is insignificant compared to throttling and also when you are going down the mountain depending on speed/terrain the added wind cools the motor. So usually I found that the motor cooled a couple of degrees by the bottom of the hill. I should have tested how much it cools with out regen.
Any way was a great ride, although too many hikers and horse riders being Anzac day and perfect weather.
I just want to say that I am finally pretty dam happy with my set up after about a year of stuffing around.
My tips for people wanting to build a great bike are:
18s2p without question. 12s after top charge goes quickly is not enough power. 18s1p is ok for a 20amp set up but thats gutless on even bitumen hills.
18s2p with regen even better. I just finished a 25km off road mountainous one hour ride, used 6ah, 9% regen. The time before with Newb at one stage of the ride I was over 11% regen. Anyways if I kept this up I'd probably get 40kms out of it. Yes I pedalled too.
Major thing on the cards is I want to go to 20" rear wheel, for added hill climbing torque and take off efficiency. And even more importantly:
I MUST DRILL THE HUB SIDE COVERS. It is a major bummer that I hit over 100* so fast on big mountain strips.
a note on REGEN:
I observe my temperature at the top of mountain descends and then at the base with out throttle. The temperature does not go up. Yes regen probably does heat the motor but it is insignificant compared to throttling and also when you are going down the mountain depending on speed/terrain the added wind cools the motor. So usually I found that the motor cooled a couple of degrees by the bottom of the hill. I should have tested how much it cools with out regen.
Any way was a great ride, although too many hikers and horse riders being Anzac day and perfect weather.
That's great. You seemed to be going really fast on your new setup. I got my precharge connectors so can try out 18s also. That's what I like about lipos that you can switch configurations around. Yes, vent your hub. Made huge difference on my other bike.
John Bozi
100 kW
drew12345 said:
Going alone I kept near the speed limit this time and normally in pedalling speeds when off road. I only hit higher speeds before big mountains to get a run up.
Nobody believes me still but I don't get any arcing anymore. I leave my batteries connected to the bike until I need to charge the batteries. I also cover the controller plugs so no chance for them to drain out against the bike or each other... Total time unconnected is usually under 3 hours.. but I've had no arc even over night.
possible reasons for no arc = I have a ton of resistance in poorly soldered wires? or I just have some really great capacitors that hold charge really well... no idea. But Newb witnessed me connect when he was here last time.
Im just happy!
John Bozi
100 kW
Actually love flying up the mountains like all the other motorcyclists. Decided to give it ago instead off roading all the way up there. Cars were a pain behind and in front...
just stopped at about 4ahs for a motor cooling and smoke break.
just stopped at about 4ahs for a motor cooling and smoke break.
John Bozi
100 kW
The motor is in the zone for mountain riding. Just not super steep off road start and stops. Above photo comes from the middle of my ride yesterday. The ride looks like this:
[youtube]cc_tgvQaGFQ[/youtube]
[youtube]cc_tgvQaGFQ[/youtube]
John Bozi
100 kW
drew12345 said:
I charge in parallel with batteries on the bike. I have two chargers on one power supply. I wish I had one more charger... but my riding is not so important that I cant wait an hour. Life was much easier on 12s...
I'm still scared to bulk charge.
One thing I notice is that when I parallel charge, I use 20amps and is quick to charge. But seems bulk charging, it goes down less than 10 amps unless you have powerful charger. Never thought of using 2 chargers at once since I have 2 now.
I had a thought yesterday of creating a few different videos of how to parallel charge, bulk charge with rc charger, and bulk charge with bms. There doesn't seem to be hardly any videos on this especially last one. Will probably do later in year when I figure the proper way of doing it. Will run it by veterans here. Unless someone beats me to it.....
I had a thought yesterday of creating a few different videos of how to parallel charge, bulk charge with rc charger, and bulk charge with bms. There doesn't seem to be hardly any videos on this especially last one. Will probably do later in year when I figure the proper way of doing it. Will run it by veterans here. Unless someone beats me to it.....
John Bozi
100 kW
link to power supply - you can see it has two outputs - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49136&p=825826&hilit=power+supply#p825826 wish it had 3
It runs at 17.5v @ 27 amps. I can't run it at 18v 30amps as it will keep tripping the safety feature over power... that's a good buffer.
That's 9.5 amps in each charger split into two packs so safely pushing under 5 amps into each 6s.
Takes about 100 minutes from 3.7 to balance to over 4.15. Have gone down to 4.16 from 4.19 because I have 11amp hours now. The older the batteries get I was noticing they wouldn't keep that top charge even when not running the bike. So I just wait till they are all up to 4.15 or 4.16 and switch them off. The end balancing can take over half an hour if trying to get up to 4.19, just seems while its pushing power into one cell another cell is dropping down 0.01 over and over again. Pointless.
Still all the stuffing around with unseriesing and then reseriesing and charging an odd amount of batteries takes me over bloody three hours. I do hate it but the headway box was just wrong on my bike. I would be happy with a box of headways with bms (as i was using) if I had double crown forks (easy to mount at front.)
It runs at 17.5v @ 27 amps. I can't run it at 18v 30amps as it will keep tripping the safety feature over power... that's a good buffer.
That's 9.5 amps in each charger split into two packs so safely pushing under 5 amps into each 6s.
Takes about 100 minutes from 3.7 to balance to over 4.15. Have gone down to 4.16 from 4.19 because I have 11amp hours now. The older the batteries get I was noticing they wouldn't keep that top charge even when not running the bike. So I just wait till they are all up to 4.15 or 4.16 and switch them off. The end balancing can take over half an hour if trying to get up to 4.19, just seems while its pushing power into one cell another cell is dropping down 0.01 over and over again. Pointless.
Still all the stuffing around with unseriesing and then reseriesing and charging an odd amount of batteries takes me over bloody three hours. I do hate it but the headway box was just wrong on my bike. I would be happy with a box of headways with bms (as i was using) if I had double crown forks (easy to mount at front.)
John Bozi
100 kW
Since I am going to drill holes in my hub - and have to pull everything apart again, I might as well wait till I can get new rim/tyres/spokes etc. as well.
In this post I'm adding all my study, Ebay has some great stuff but wont ship to AU
except this guy:
for dx32 for $90 delivered http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unicycle-Mod-Trials-Rim-Black-Alex-DX-32-19-32H-36H-/200907900653#shpCntId
These are very wide! which is what I am going for.
Whats the deal with pinned or welded seams?
From Chainreaction within $50 each (my limit, as they go up to bloody $150)
Kink Orion BMX Wheel Rim $56 This is my first choice because of the width. But will I be able to cross lace the 4065 at 20"?
Weight: 16.1oz.
Extruded From Special Grade 6000 Series Aluminum.
Hard Anodize Finish For Better Braking.
16mm Low Profile Design.
36mm Wide Profile For Added Strength. that's 1.4" just to understand how it relates to tyre widths...
406mm Bead Diameter.
Drilled For Cross Lacing Spokes.
Welded Seam.
Rim Strips Sold Separately.
Stolen Revolver BMX Rim
NOWA$43.49
This double wall design is ultra light and super strong, offset spoke pattern for a stronger build. Extruded from 6061 Aluminium.
Width: 34.1mm
Holes: 36
Side Wall Height: 13.25mm
Alex Supra Dome BMX Rim
From A$23.99 - A$47.99
Lightweight 6061-T6 Aluminum Rim.
Double wall design with pinned seam.
Made for park, trails and street.
Rim Height: 15.3mm
Sidewall: 9.2mm
Width: 34.1mm
Bead Width: 25.5mm
They don't have much in terms of wide offroad tyres. best one is probably
Maxxis Maxx Daddy BMX Tyre 2.25"
on special about $20
Staggered, tightly spaced center lugs provide controllable speeds. The knob spacing increases near the shoulder lugs to produce two channels that hook up on hardpack berms to loose dirt on the trails.
Specifications:
TPI: 60
Bead: Wire
Weight: 500g (1.85")- 555g (2")
Compound: Single
Max PSI: 40
What I would love is to be able to fit the creepy crawlies but just discovered the 2.5 rear is actually made for 19"!
from chainreaction:
from Maxxis site:
Going from 26 - 19" wheel is 7 inches =
17.78 centimetres.
That's a huge drop. Considering that half of that is at the top of the tyre and the other at the bottom = I will bringing the ground up closer by 3.5" or 8.89 cm. Which is probably the distance between the pedal and ground now at the bottom of the cycle. That is if I had 19" on both wheels.
26" at front would most probably make the angle of the bike very awkward to go up hills. But amazing going down them!
I would most probably have to covert to only having the smallest front chainring to avoid more possible strike. And have to consider just getting rid of the rear derallier and just put the smallest teeth ring at back - no point in going to more granny than the small at front anyway for hills.
or should I just sell the 4065 - retitle this thread and get a 12t mac already laced...?
One of newbs wheel builds a few years back looks pretty awesome and gives me an idea about the pain in the ass the radial will be.
In this post I'm adding all my study, Ebay has some great stuff but wont ship to AU
except this guy:for dx32 for $90 delivered http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unicycle-Mod-Trials-Rim-Black-Alex-DX-32-19-32H-36H-/200907900653#shpCntId
These are very wide! which is what I am going for.
Whats the deal with pinned or welded seams?
From Chainreaction within $50 each (my limit, as they go up to bloody $150)
Kink Orion BMX Wheel Rim $56 This is my first choice because of the width. But will I be able to cross lace the 4065 at 20"?
Weight: 16.1oz.
Extruded From Special Grade 6000 Series Aluminum.
Hard Anodize Finish For Better Braking.
16mm Low Profile Design.
36mm Wide Profile For Added Strength. that's 1.4" just to understand how it relates to tyre widths...
406mm Bead Diameter.
Drilled For Cross Lacing Spokes.
Welded Seam.
Rim Strips Sold Separately.
Stolen Revolver BMX Rim
NOWA$43.49
This double wall design is ultra light and super strong, offset spoke pattern for a stronger build. Extruded from 6061 Aluminium.
Width: 34.1mm
Holes: 36
Side Wall Height: 13.25mm
Alex Supra Dome BMX Rim
From A$23.99 - A$47.99
Lightweight 6061-T6 Aluminum Rim.
Double wall design with pinned seam.
Made for park, trails and street.
Rim Height: 15.3mm
Sidewall: 9.2mm
Width: 34.1mm
Bead Width: 25.5mm
They don't have much in terms of wide offroad tyres. best one is probably
Maxxis Maxx Daddy BMX Tyre 2.25"
on special about $20
Staggered, tightly spaced center lugs provide controllable speeds. The knob spacing increases near the shoulder lugs to produce two channels that hook up on hardpack berms to loose dirt on the trails.
Specifications:
TPI: 60
Bead: Wire
Weight: 500g (1.85")- 555g (2")
Compound: Single
Max PSI: 40
What I would love is to be able to fit the creepy crawlies but just discovered the 2.5 rear is actually made for 19"!
from chainreaction:
it's the widest offroad ive come across - i want fat to soften up the small size.
from Maxxis site:
Going from 26 - 19" wheel is 7 inches =
17.78 centimetres.
That's a huge drop. Considering that half of that is at the top of the tyre and the other at the bottom = I will bringing the ground up closer by 3.5" or 8.89 cm. Which is probably the distance between the pedal and ground now at the bottom of the cycle. That is if I had 19" on both wheels.
26" at front would most probably make the angle of the bike very awkward to go up hills. But amazing going down them!
I would most probably have to covert to only having the smallest front chainring to avoid more possible strike. And have to consider just getting rid of the rear derallier and just put the smallest teeth ring at back - no point in going to more granny than the small at front anyway for hills.
or should I just sell the 4065 - retitle this thread and get a 12t mac already laced...?
One of newbs wheel builds a few years back looks pretty awesome and gives me an idea about the pain in the ass the radial will be.
pendragon8000
100 kW
alex dx32 36h is on ebay for less than $90 both times i got 1 . i say go 24 inch. but if you stay 26 get the minion 2.7
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/maxxis-minion-dhf-front-mtb-tyre-dual-ply/rp-prod4620
hows the e grin with 18s 10ah LiPo? living th proverbial dream or what?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/maxxis-minion-dhf-front-mtb-tyre-dual-ply/rp-prod4620
hows the e grin with 18s 10ah LiPo? living th proverbial dream or what?
pendragon8000
100 kW
dont forget this post mAn... >
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753&start=100#p726173
big holes on perimiter of gear side and big holes near axle of brake side is best to sumize the post.
edit
this one
to
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753&start=100#p726173
big holes on perimiter of gear side and big holes near axle of brake side is best to sumize the post.
edit
this one
to
John Bozi
100 kW
11.6 actually which means I can actually use 10, depending how hard I pull it.pendragon8000 said:alex dx32 36h is on ebay for less than $90 both times i got 1 . i say go 24 inch. but if you stay 26 get the minion 2.7
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/maxxis-minion-dhf-front-mtb-tyre-dual-ply/rp-prod4620
hows the e grin with 18s 10ah LiPo? living th proverbial dream or what?
Dood your not looking at 20"
26 is easier for everything, its just not made for mountains, unless your a granny gear pedal boy, or live next to a chairlift.
I want to drop this gear ratio to rip it up
about the intake options its quite confusing - ill have to read the whole thread to get an idea. To be honest I am scared of weakening what holds this 10kg rear wheel.
John Bozi
100 kW
still looking at finding a nice frame and the slopestyle ones might have big issues with torque arms...
I liked the flextoy but its got pivots just where I imagine the torque arm would sit.
I liked the flextoy but its got pivots just where I imagine the torque arm would sit.
John Bozi
100 kW
been still searching around for what I will need to do with 20"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35060&p=555307&hilit=pedals#p555307 how to taper
That should solve the pedals but I believe I need to go to the smallest front tooth widgit. Which is 28.. Pic below is 30 I think...
The extra space in front of the chainring might also offer more space for an aluminium box below down tube...
all just research still
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35060&p=555307&hilit=pedals#p555307 how to taper
That should solve the pedals but I believe I need to go to the smallest front tooth widgit. Which is 28.. Pic below is 30 I think...
all just research still
John Bozi
100 kW
drew12345 said:
I dont have the $3k yet to go aft.. I want to try 20" drilled hub as the final attempt - if that disappoints too much still then I have some strong experiences to share. eg. even a 20" fat 4065 at 2800 watts cant compare with the aft in granny gear for climbing...
agniusm
1 MW
I also am building a wheel and have one Alex rims DX32 but could not source another for reasonable price. I have 17" moto rim which i decided to use with x5303. Have you thought about it? Check this one out:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-WHEEL-M...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c600079a&vxp=mtr
Might be good alternative. There are dimples that are angled for cross lacing. You will end up larger, 22-23" depending on the tire put i think its a good alternative.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-WHEEL-M...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c600079a&vxp=mtr
Might be good alternative. There are dimples that are angled for cross lacing. You will end up larger, 22-23" depending on the tire put i think its a good alternative.
John Bozi said:
With a small rear wheel with a lot of torque and going up a hill, wouldn't the front end want to wheelie?
I was climbing some steep stuff yesterday on my 26 inch, and had to lean way forward just to keep the front end from coming up. That was just on 12s.
Never had 20 inch so not sure. I would think on flats and rolling hills is great. Not sure about steep stuff. Also not sure on all the rough trails. Need big suspension?
John Bozi
100 kW
Drew I will tell you how bad it rides in a month I guess. I just bit the bullet for the 19" rim dx32 36hole
step one complete
step one complete
John Bozi
100 kW
agniusm thanks Newb also gave me lots of info on the moto rims - I was looking more at 14" sizes to get as small as possible. Problem is then I am not sure how the advantage of angled spoke holes will actually work when so small a rim and on such a big hub. I will stick to radial, it will be a pain to drill out the holes in the dx32 and hopefully with lots of hard work it will fit in. 19" rim with 2.5" tyre should be close to 20" anyway.agniusm said:
I've got a ton of customizing to do.
I need to source tubes, spokes, spoke puller? thing that cuts and threads them too, taper for cranks other bike tools .... list goes on.
Further down the track I will have to consider the front wheel too. 26" to 19" rear is insane! I love my fat hookworms - they make me feel so confident on and off road. I can't go to some weaker tyre even in the front for the way I ride.
Edit:
I just measured the distance between the rear derailleur and the ground.... 16cm. So I will have about 7cm between the ground on the rear. If I get into any ruts my deraileur will turn to cactus. I think I will wait till that happens and then get someting like this
Yes tensioner single speed seems like the only choice for now.
[youtube]VBKoQHlFMVs[/youtube]
The full suspension version is longer and quite expensive but hey... what to do? $90 delivered
pendragon8000
100 kW
i see your looking at 19 MC rims. very nice
ive been looking at doinf a bmx recently, agh 20" wheel
anyway i seen alot of john holms wheel builds. he made a nice 2 cross lace pattern 19"mc wheel i think.
check it out ...
ah smaller, so your 19 would be a shoe in
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16218&start=75#p339146
ive been looking at doinf a bmx recently, agh 20" wheel
anyway i seen alot of john holms wheel builds. he made a nice 2 cross lace pattern 19"mc wheel i think.
check it out ...
ah smaller, so your 19 would be a shoe in
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16218&start=75#p339146
John Bozi
100 kW
pendragon8000 said:i see your looking at 19 MC rims. very nice
ive been looking at doinf a bmx recently, agh 20" wheel
anyway i seen alot of john holms wheel builds. he made a nice 2 cross lace pattern 19"mc wheel i think.
check it out ...
ah smaller, so your 19 would be a shoe in
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16218&start=75#p339146
Yeah I think I just got sick of umming and ahring. Main thing I want is to drill holes for heat. But I hate pulling the thing apart, so it will be all at once.
I know I haven't been riding much compared to most around here. Sure high speed is awesome at times. But for me my favorite thing now is mountains.
I am following your building. I'll stick to dx32 19" and creepy crawlers for my first attempt. I reckon they look sexy. I've got a thing for trials bikes with fat little wheels at the back.
Actually instead of bmx I reckon building onto one of these with out a seat would be shit hot. would just make an aluminium piped skeleton to hold a an abs box, stick some sort of seat on it. tons of battery room.
just as a gauge of what my wheel will look like, this 4065 is in a 20" I think.
$35 for cc from australia, I just cant find the right tube yet. http://www.biketrialsdirect.com/maxxis-creepy-crawler-tyre/ or http://tbsm.com.au/bike-parts/wheels-tyres/tyres-bmx/maxxis-creepy-crawler-trial-20-16197?number_of_uploads=0&
NOt sure if it takes 20" tube or 19"? dont think there is even 19" tubes...
But have found at least a tube that will fit for 2.5" width in 20"
pendragon8000
100 kW
avoide radial lace if you can, it will be ok for a few months but the life span is so short becuaes spoke are being pulled very hard because there is no tngental angle to transfer torque.
19" bmx/trials rim the pedals will hit the ground with out leaning!!
honestly go for 17" mc or something. equal 22+ out side diameter (how bicycles are mesured)
19" bmx/trials rim the pedals will hit the ground with out leaning!!
honestly go for 17" mc or something. equal 22+ out side diameter (how bicycles are mesured)
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