I am going to be moving next spring and was going to get a small townhome or condo. Just wondering about the heating and cooling. If you are in the middle of the townhome building, a side by side building, do you have much lower heating and cooling costs then if you had an end unit? With condo's do you have cheaper heating costs if you are a top unit or a ground unit?
Any townhome/condo owners here?
- Thread starter silviasol
- Start date
tomjasz
1 GW
Yes, upper unit. All I can compare is my 1500q ft house to our 1500 sq ft condo. The condo was 30% less in Las Vegas compared to the house there. My only complaint was one of two condos was poorly insulated between condos and noisy. The other was dead silent and well insulated.
My mothers is on the third floor in MN (read very cold) and she gets to hot and often runs the air, window type, to cool the place down
My mothers is on the third floor in MN (read very cold) and she gets to hot and often runs the air, window type, to cool the place down
Sunder
10 MW
We had a top unit and a ground floor unit. The ground floor unit was always warmer in winter and cooler in summer. I think contact with the ground gave it a heat sink to smooth out heat changes.
Our top floor unit was an oven un summer. When the owners corporation installed insulation, it was massively better, but still a lot hotter than ground floor apartments. It wasn't too bad in winter, but Australian winters are pretty mild.
Our top floor unit was an oven un summer. When the owners corporation installed insulation, it was massively better, but still a lot hotter than ground floor apartments. It wasn't too bad in winter, but Australian winters are pretty mild.
tomjasz
1 GW
We are in very different climates. I'm wondering where the OP is?
markz
100 TW
silviasol said:
Mine built in 1999, moved in 2001, main floor, corner unit 2 bd, 1.5 bath, W/D, parkade stall, storage locker 7'x5' - 3 windows, 2 door, back small patio, no direct light, corner unit, 750sq ft. Hardly ever used heat in winter, just normal. -30+ had to crank up heat, or use fireplace. Calgary Alberta, $150k, 50k down, 2.5%, plus $250/m condo fee. Plus stupid condo rules. Unless retired, DO NOT BUY A CONDO, or anything with an extra fee like condo fee. Find a smaller cheaper house.
Cant remember if mine was concrete walls, concrete floors for sure, 3 levels, just like a big house really, took up 4 lots.
dogman dan
1 PW
In general, any wall that does not touch the environment will be insulated in a way, for hot or cool. Look seriously into how the condo's are built. Are they really insulated, or just r 11 walls? You can see a 2x6 wall at a glance, vs a 2x4 wall, by looking at the windows or doors.
On the other hand, it could be worth the money to have nobody walking around on your ceiling, or having a loud TV bolted to your wall.
I've seen condo owners build a second wall inside their house on one side, because of the loud neighbor several times. But I did wonder why people who treasure their absolute quiet so much buy condo's.
On the other hand, it could be worth the money to have nobody walking around on your ceiling, or having a loud TV bolted to your wall.
I've seen condo owners build a second wall inside their house on one side, because of the loud neighbor several times. But I did wonder why people who treasure their absolute quiet so much buy condo's.
tomjasz
1 GW
We had one in Las Vegas. It was originally built as temporary housing for people buying into a luxury golf neighborhood. I couldn't crank my TV loud enough to bother any other resident. Next a condo in a gated community, same result. Third, a budget condo, and an absolute nightmare of noise. Your point about checking out walls and insulation is good advice. Some are winners and can be very quiet, others just over priced apartments.dogman dan said:
markz
100 TW
Yeah double walls are a must.
dogman dan
1 PW
Yes, double walls are often part of the fire code. But extra insulation between the walls is a must, that might be left out.
The condo's I did maintenance on for 15 years lacked this. It became a bigger problem when the flat screen TV came along. Look at the layout of the condo's next door. Is the living room wall next door where the huge TV will be bolted to the wall 6 inches from your pillow in your bedroom?
On the other hand, if you are the one with a TV on tuned to the shout news channel every waking moment, you have no problem.
The condo's I did maintenance on for 15 years lacked this. It became a bigger problem when the flat screen TV came along. Look at the layout of the condo's next door. Is the living room wall next door where the huge TV will be bolted to the wall 6 inches from your pillow in your bedroom?
On the other hand, if you are the one with a TV on tuned to the shout news channel every waking moment, you have no problem.
I though all condo's that are relatively new have concrete between the units, the walls that separate the different units? I read that that is a common thing to have concrete between the walls unless the building is very old, before the 80's. I am looking at condo's with garages and only two stories, not the tall apartment building style condo's. I am in MN USA.
tomjasz
1 GW
silviasol said:
Where in MN? I'm in the SE corner. I'd say ground floor between other condos would be most efficient here.
markz
100 TW
silviasol said:
No, you do pay substantially more for the condo when they are built like that. I am not sure how you can tell really besides being there when its being built or trusting what the builder says, I doubt its legally binding in the paper work. Each State/Province has different rules.
dogman dan
1 PW
Definitely building codes vary. Those condos I maintained were very old, 70's. They were built with the fire code double wall, and 4 layers of sheetrock total. But the space was not insulated on both sides, so sounds definitely came through the wall. But even so, most had no problems. But the two musicians that lived there did, as did the lady who lived next door to the deaf old man. For the most part, no problems till the TV began to be actually bolted to the wall.
I am looking at a second floor upper unit townhome. I am concerned about how the floors are made. In my trailer home the floors are plywood. It is what I hate most about a trailer because it feels cheap, you can jump on it and feel the floor bounce, it just doesn't feel solid. Running the washer shakes the whole trailer when it is in the spin cycle. Are they built with some kind of extra strength to use washing machines, I know it is not recommended to have a washer on a wood floor or second floor of a home.
dogman dan
1 PW
Almost everything I ever built that was two story (1980-2000) used a 3/4 inch sheet product called redex. This is a water resistant particle board type stuff much stiffer than 3/4 plywood. Truly very water resistant, this stuff, but still a wood product. In one case, 3/4 plywood was then overlaid with ordinary 1/2 inch particle board. That one was not water resistant, and the floor had gotten damaged before we got a roof on the apartments.
My mobile home, it was nothing but cheap 1/2 inch particle board, and after 15 years in it, we were quite familiar with the sink straddle. you know, can't stand directly in front of the kitchen sink anymore, or you'd risk going through the floor. That trailer btw, had the plastic pipe and fittings that lasted at most 10 years, so it's plumbing leaked like mad everywhere.
Only one way to find out what your condo has, Peel back a corner of carpet and see. The waterproof flooring will look like particle board, but a dark color and almost waxy feel.
This is all for inexpensive wood frame structures with wooden truss floors. If your condo is made more like a skyscraper, then it will have steel trusses, and each floor will be poured concrete a few inches thick.
Before you buy a house or condo, find out what it's made of, what is the floor, etc. Don't just ask the realtor dumbass, they don't know shit, and will say anything and honestly think it's the truth. If they won't let you poke and prod, hire a house inspector before you close, and let him tell you what you have.
My mobile home, it was nothing but cheap 1/2 inch particle board, and after 15 years in it, we were quite familiar with the sink straddle. you know, can't stand directly in front of the kitchen sink anymore, or you'd risk going through the floor. That trailer btw, had the plastic pipe and fittings that lasted at most 10 years, so it's plumbing leaked like mad everywhere.
Only one way to find out what your condo has, Peel back a corner of carpet and see. The waterproof flooring will look like particle board, but a dark color and almost waxy feel.
This is all for inexpensive wood frame structures with wooden truss floors. If your condo is made more like a skyscraper, then it will have steel trusses, and each floor will be poured concrete a few inches thick.
Before you buy a house or condo, find out what it's made of, what is the floor, etc. Don't just ask the realtor dumbass, they don't know shit, and will say anything and honestly think it's the truth. If they won't let you poke and prod, hire a house inspector before you close, and let him tell you what you have.
Good to know, thanks! I will look into hiring a home inspector. Mostly concerned with a wooden floor shaking when running the washer, that is the most annoying thing with my mobile home.
I pulled up the carpet in an area in my mobile home and it has about 1.5" thick particle board. It is pretty beefy but still will bounce if you are between the 6' spaces of the 2x4's holding the particle board. Whoever designed the floor area for the washer was a moron, the 2x4 is under the back legs of the washer so when my side loader goes into spin mode the front legs bounce the particle board which shakes the whole house. I had a big leak from the water heater heating element seal going bad, bent the floor up but still solid.
I pulled up the carpet in an area in my mobile home and it has about 1.5" thick particle board. It is pretty beefy but still will bounce if you are between the 6' spaces of the 2x4's holding the particle board. Whoever designed the floor area for the washer was a moron, the 2x4 is under the back legs of the washer so when my side loader goes into spin mode the front legs bounce the particle board which shakes the whole house. I had a big leak from the water heater heating element seal going bad, bent the floor up but still solid.
markz
100 TW
Thats awful about the mobile homes build quality dogman dan, I have stayed in some luxerious ATCO trailers up north. They literally can stack them 3 high now. I have no clue how much they cost, but when the floods came the gov't used them. Surely $50K+, mobile homes are banned in most trailer parks that are of a certain vintage. Cant insure them, and they depreciate fast. I like certain townhome configurations, the thing I hate are the small floor footprint and 3 levels or 4 levels, just a pain going up and down all the time. The narrow ones you got to stay away from. I would personally stay away from anything over 4 attached, who knows what they are doing in the other 3 homes. I've seen some 8 attached. A couple 1000 unit condo's burnt to the ground, cigs left burning. Erlton and Millrise neighborhoods in Calgary.
Do the jump test when looking for new homes. And do the scream test in common area - inside home, away from any doors or windows. This will determine common wall insulation by the amount they put in on the outter walls to weather.
Skip the Home Inspector, they are useless. They are not even trained, they just pass a silly short course, pay their money. Hire a real contractor/red seal journeyman, for 2 hours of his time and a few hundred bucks and a case of beer is worth 100 times more then a $150 home inspector, I doubt they even know building code, electrical code, structural code. Its hard to find good home inspectors, because they are construction trade drop-outs.
Do the jump test when looking for new homes. And do the scream test in common area - inside home, away from any doors or windows. This will determine common wall insulation by the amount they put in on the outter walls to weather.
Skip the Home Inspector, they are useless. They are not even trained, they just pass a silly short course, pay their money. Hire a real contractor/red seal journeyman, for 2 hours of his time and a few hundred bucks and a case of beer is worth 100 times more then a $150 home inspector, I doubt they even know building code, electrical code, structural code. Its hard to find good home inspectors, because they are construction trade drop-outs.
dogman dan
1 PW
Lots of variation in standards for mobile homes of course. Down here near the Mexican border the climate is easy and the standards are lax. The plumbing I had in that house illegal now. But I was shocked at the floor. it appeared to be 1" thick, but in reality it was 1/2, the other 1/2 an insulating fiber board.
Re the washing machine, unbalanced enough, it will shake a wood frame building. but standing on a foundation rather than some flexy steel frame it shouldn't shake as much as the trailer. But feel some vibration, yes quite possible you will know when the washer is jumping around.
Re the washing machine, unbalanced enough, it will shake a wood frame building. but standing on a foundation rather than some flexy steel frame it shouldn't shake as much as the trailer. But feel some vibration, yes quite possible you will know when the washer is jumping around.
The fingers
10 TW
We have one of those weird front loader direct drive washers. It makes strange sounds and uses very little water, but never shakes at all. It sits on a tile floor over a concrete slab and can't be heard from the rest of the house. I think it sounds like a Prius or something. 
I have finally gotten around to looking at condo's and townhomes and I am now very concerned with sound from other units. I thought they did more soundproofing in places built after 1980 but I was very wrong. One I looked at I was sitting in the living room with my agent and could hear doors shutting in the hall way! So I am looking at some end units which I figure just in case there is a sound problem I can install some quietrock drywall on just the one wall. Then I got to thinking maybe I can not do the construction myself since the wall is not only mine. How does it work doing upgrades to a condo or townhome? Do I need to hire a professional construction company? Anyone have any experience with upgrading their townhome?
