Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Then it would give very wide Q factor that is BTW the issue of CYC motors, measuring around 190mm. As far as i remember Yamaha motors do have it around 170mm making more side clearance and more convinient biomechanical force transfer to the pedal.

Yep, I have read Yamaha is about 168mm.

The 170mm figure you quote is what a purely human powered mountain bike q factor typically comes out at. (i.e. no difference in Q factor for Yamaha mid drive compared to a typical non electric mountain bike).

This compared to 145mm to 150mm q factor for purely human powered road bikes and 200mm to 230mm q factor for purely human powered fat bikes.

 

[OnimeNoGarou]

So, for anyone that has a DM-01, how does the throttle work in stock setup? Does it provide full power or is it limited like on stock TSDZ2? Are there user settings that can adjust the behavior? I am following the High Voltage project to develop their hot rod package that uses an ASI controller and he commented in one of the videos about the stock throttle not being very good... but IDK.

Using a throttle with DM01 is not bad. By default, it is set to give full power on whichever power/PAS level you have set. So, level 1 PAS would give about 30% when fully depressed. Level 5 gives 100% power. The default power is 30 amps, which is the max it can handle, I believe. I don't remember the default percentage for each level, though. All of this is easily configurable right from the display.

 

[hrasco]

Using a throttle with DM01 is not bad. By default, it is set to give full power on whichever power/PAS level you have set. So, level 1 PAS would give about 30% when fully depressed. Level 5 gives 100% power. The default power is 30 amps, which is the max it can handle, I believe. I don't remember the default percentage for each level, though. All of this is easily configurable right from the display.

Can it be set for full throttle power regardless of PAS level?

 

[PM128]

Very dodgy site. Looks like a scam. Use official aliexpress site.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1102731762/pages/all-items.html?sortType=bestmatch_sort

Watch this

LOL! E-mail address on that site screams scam!

Email: tosevenmotor461@gmail.com

Real Toseven has its own chinese domain
liying@to7motor.cn

The Scammer's site (allegidly Toseven) is not available (any more)..

 

[steve s]

IMO the TSDZ2 and Photon torque sensors work ~equally well, so anything close to that would be acceptable. It sees like a lot of folks have this dialed in so I don't understand why ToSeven wouldn't... if not now, then soon. I agree Photon is a great motor and ticks about 85% of the boxes. Only thing it lacks is the ability to go hard on throttle in unrestricted mode for very long due to the inability of the motor to cool itself. I don't want to do that often but it sure would be nice to be able to do it. The holy grail for me would be a BBSHD with torque sensor... and they supposedly have that in the new 635, but with all that Bafang proprietary nonsense. Sigh. Maybe CYC will make a Photon V2 or some other motor that addresses the cooling problems. Would be worth the CYC premium for me if they pull that off.

Excellent points, I love my photon but If we could have better cooling in a similar sized motor and be able to run power levels like the unrestricted photon for a little longer I think toseven would really have something! Oh and splined cranks!

 

[ShardCollector]

Unfortunately aliexpress is the only option for EU citizens.

Does anyone know if the 48% anti-dumping duties on Chinese bikes and bike parts apply when ordering motors for private use?

I'm hesitant to buy a 400€ motor from China, if It means I will be charged 200€ more by the customs

That's why I'd rather wait for EU warehouse based shipping.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Does anyone know if the 48% anti-dumping duties on Chinese bikes and bike parts apply when ordering motors for private use?

I'm hesitant to buy a 400€ motor from China, if It means I will be charged 200€ more by the customs

That's why I'd rather wait for EU warehouse based shipping.

Duty is 6% still in EU. Just google IT.

That 48% is for chinese electric cars not for electric motors. Eu simply does not want to be flooded by cheap and crappy EVs.

 

[ShardCollector]

Duty is 6% still in EU. Just google IT.

That 48% is for chinese electric cars not for electric motors. Eu simply does not want to be flooded by cheap and crappy EVs.

I did. This is one of the many articles that speak about the 48.5 percent, but I don't know if it applies to individuals or only companies.

How EU trade defence measures on e-bikes are destroying EU companies

On Thursday 16 November, LEVA-EU has consulted with several e-bike companies on the major problems resulting from the trade defence measures against e-bikes from China. Their testimonies clearly show that the dumping and countervailing legislation has become an inextricable tangle, leading...

leva-eu.com

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Show me link to real law. Duty for electric motors is 6%. 400 euro motor will cost you 424 euro.End of story

 

[PM128]

That 48% is for chinese electric cars not for electric motors. Eu simply does not want to be flooded by cheap and crappy EVs.

Watch the video, so much for "cheap and crappy Chinese EVs". The retarded screwing EU just doesn't want competition with EVs much superior to those domestic craps or even Tesla. Like it or not China is producing not only everything but also already in quality which is absolutely top. Not everything though, Aliexpress is a prime example of junkyards often selling factory 2nd and 3rd quality fallouts to us.

 

[neptronix]

In the USA our beloved electric goods should rise 25%-100% thanks to these trade wars.
FACT SHEET: President Biden Takes Action to Protect American Workers and Businesses from China’s Unfair Trade Practices | The White House

I think about how Grin went through all this work to inhouse some motor production over the last few years and how smart of a business move that was, considering breaking economic ties with China is an eventuality now. I hope some companies in the EU are thinking about the same kinds of moves.

 

[PM128]

That's why I'd rather wait for EU warehouse based shipping.

Same here, also waiting for new stock in EU warehouse. The f~g German customs let me one time drive 70km to their location to open one AE package and pay the import tax + Mwst of 19%. Phuick them. Luckily some Chinese companies have already warehouses in EU.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Watch the video, so much for "cheap and crappy Chinese EVs". The retarded screwing EU just doesn't want competition with EVs much superior to those domestic craps or even Tesla. Like it or not China is producing not only everything but also already in quality which is absolutely top. Not everything though, Aliexpress is a prime example of junkyards often selling factory 2nd and 3rd quality fallouts to us.

Do not make me laugh!

 

[ShardCollector]

Bicycle parts from China - Finnish Customs - Archive

arkisto.tulli.fi

The anti-dumping rules seems to apply only to importers of more than 300 units per month

 

[PM128]

Do not make me laugh!

Who would want to defame China would always be able to dig out some negative pictures although they are statistically one from 10 millions. Especially this hatred vomiting channel. Do you think I could not find similar videos of burning Teslas and 'western' EV crap? And that would be one from 10 thousand. But I am not going to argue with you. Just a recommendation: if you are laughing at or hate China so much you better never buy anything 'Made in China' incl. To7 eBike motor kits.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Burning junk is still a burning junk. Wasting 30k euro for chinese ev which can Burn your whole house is stupid as duck.

 

[neptronix]

What a gross overgeneralization..
..as if making crappy EV things is something China has a monopoly on

 

[steve s]

So, for anyone that has a DM-01, how does the throttle work in stock setup? Does it provide full power or is it limited like on stock TSDZ2? Are there user settings that can adjust the behavior? I am following the High Voltage project to develop their hot rod package that uses an ASI controller and he commented in one of the videos about the stock throttle not being very good... but IDK. Are y

I still need to see some real-world tests and reviews. My current e-bikes are fine for pedalec which is my main use, but I am still wanting one that is the so-called "holy grail" in addition to torque sense allows continuous fast running on throttle for errands and other non-exercise uses. Not sure this one fits that bill in stock form.

I would buy a dm02 if it had an "unrestricted" setting like the photon Im typically very happy running around at 750w or less but more power is nice on short steep hills or if I really need to get somewhere .

 

[raylo32]

Exactly. 750 W is way more than I need to do a fast hilly road ride, basically spun out on the gearing that I have. But the unrestricted throttle is good for making a move in a motor vehicle traffic situation where the Photon on throttle takes me to speeds faster than I can pedal. I do that on this one particular route every time since it is the safest way to make a left turn on that busy road. Some others here like @Mongo seem to do similar.

I would buy a dm02 if it had an "unrestricted" setting like the photon Im typically very happy running around at 750w or less but more power is nice on short steep hills or if I really need to get somewhere .

 

[Mongo]

Exactly. 750 W is way more than I need to do a fast hilly road ride, basically spun out on the gearing that I have. But the unrestricted throttle is good for making a move in a motor vehicle traffic situation where the Photon on throttle takes me to speeds faster than I can pedal. I do that on this one particular route every time since it is the safest way to make a left turn on that busy road. Some others here like @Mongo seem to do similar.

Yup, that's what I do - and all settable via Photon's three assist levels (times two if you've got "street" and "race" separately configured).

 

[Heloc]

It's not the motors but the firmware. So if you were as gung ho about the company as I am (which is super rare for me) and bought a motor now it'll come with the most current firmware version. Another couple of weeks and I think they'll have a new version out that should be a big improvement. There will eventually be a more polished "production" firmware version. Even then I don't think the To7 crew are not the type to stop trying to improve things.

Whether you buy the motor now or later, you'll end up at the same place. It's just a matter of where along the process you want to jump in. The current firmware is just a stepping stone and will not be long lived. Olek has been frantically gathering feedback to get the current issues addressed ASAP.

Hey all! I'm back with an update. A month or two after this post ToSeven released new firmware that was huge improvement and brought back the original Eco/City/Sport modes. By default those are all set to the same 30a max but can be customized. It still wasn't quite as good as the original firmware but I'm happy to report that since then they've been steadily releasing improved firmware versions and is now better than ever and keeps improving. I'm currently using a version released back in early May. There are newer versions but it's so good now that I don't feel an urgent need to update it.

The company continues to be responsive to feedback from the community via their channels on the High Voltage discord server as well as one of the primary US vendors California-ebike.com (excellent vendor).

I have my DM-01 1000w mounted on a Surly Pugsley with a Microshift Advent 9s drivetrain, lekkie offset cranks, Magura MT5e brakes, 26x3 EBC Rhino tires (which are great), and a 12.8ah 60v battery from Affordableebikes.ca. I've put almost 400 miles on it so far and I love it. I have a rear rack with 100lb capacity and nice big saddle bags that I've used to run all kinds of errands and it does great pulling 80lbs worth of kid and trailer that we use to ride to parks and/or just ride around. I love riding it for exercise too! I can set the motor to get the effort I want regardless of what the terrain is doing. With three modes and up to 8 customizable assistance levels I can really dial it in.

I like it so much I'm now starting too look for another donor bike that'll take a 2nd motor. I did some test rides on acoustic bikes and while I think I'll end up with a nice used hardtail, I'm hoping that if I'm patient I'll be able to find a full suspension bike that'll work.

Hit me with your questions and I'll answer when I can.

 

[raylo32]

Thanks for the report. Sounds promising.

Hey all! I'm back with an update. A month or two after this post ToSeven released new firmware that was huge improvement and brought back the original Eco/City/Sport modes. By default those are all set to the same 30a max but can be customized. It still wasn't quite as good as the original firmware but I'm happy to report that since then they've been steadily releasing improved firmware versions and is now better than ever and keeps improving. I'm currently using a version released back in early May. There are newer versions but it's so good now that I don't feel an urgent need to update it.

The company continues to be responsive to feedback from the community via their channels on the High Voltage discord server as well as one of the primary US vendors California-ebike.com (excellent vendor).

I have my DM-01 1000w mounted on a Surly Pugsley with a Microshift Advent 9s drivetrain, lekkie offset cranks, Magura MT5e brakes, 26x3 EBC Rhino tires (which are great), and a 12.8ah 60v battery from Affordableebikes.ca. I've put almost 400 miles on it so far and I love it. I have a rear rack with 100lb capacity and nice big saddle bags that I've used to run all kinds of errands and it does great pulling 80lbs worth of kid and trailer that we use to ride to parks and/or just ride around. I love riding it for exercise too! I can set the motor to get the effort I want regardless of what the terrain is doing. With three modes and up to 8 customizable assistance levels I can really dial it in.

I like it so much I'm now starting too look for another donor bike that'll take a 2nd motor. I did some test rides on acoustic bikes and while I think I'll end up with a nice used hardtail, I'm hoping that if I'm patient I'll be able to find a full suspension bike that'll work.

Hit me with your questions and I'll answer when I can.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

What a gross overgeneralization..
..as if making crappy EV things is something China has a monopoly on

View attachment 354256

Shitomi junk.

You guys are very well brainwashed by chinese communist propaganda.
Quality control in china is poor. Actually I'm not surprised if average factory worker has to work 10-12 hours a day with only one day off in the week.
Those youtubers promoting chinese cars are just a shills. Paid under the table for "good" review.
I would rather buy german VW ID.3 than anything from china. End of story.

 

[steve s]

Shitomi junk.

You guys are very well brainwashed by chinese communist propaganda.
Quality control in china is poor. Actually I'm not surprised if average factory worker has to work 10-12 hours a day with only one day off in the week.
Those youtubers promoting chinese cars are just a shills. Paid under the table for "good" review.
I would rather buy german VW ID.3 than anything from china. End of story.

Can we stick to talking about the dm01 and dn02 please...

 

[steve s]

Above its implied the motors are a done deal and that's it.. and in their current form yes.. we are launching as they are described.

However that definitely doesn't mean we won't be open to launching more powerful versions or adding more features at a later date,

I think we need to be logical about this. These are our latest products and what we are comfortable to launch now.

To take the DM-01 now, slap a 40a controller on it and throw it out the door with no prior in-house testing would be a lot of fun but..... irresponsible.

Separately from a market point of view the 40a version is likely to be more niche. If we think its possible to launch the motor with a 40a controller without compromising reliability we will take a serious look at that.
However its not coming tomorrow. We understand the excitement over the possibilities, we are excited about it too, but proper development and testing needs to take place.

We do really appreciate the interest and suggestions you all have.. so don't hold back on those. Just give us some time to implement them in the correct way..

Thanks

Hi Alex, several of us here are very interested in more powerful versions of both motors. I would especially like a dm02 with a controller that can handle 30-40 amps like the photon does. I'm sure I speak for many of us that we would be willing to pay full price and provide beta testing and would Also assume any risk If we break anything. As long as parts are available most of us are quite happy to repair our motors. Thank you! Steve