Aprilia Enjoy

[tonyontopofabighill]

I remember when mine were stock standard with the pedelec the motor kept cutting in and out once I got above 23 klms and hour or thereabouts and the same going up big hills.I presume this helped keep the motor from getting too hot.Now with the mods and the throttle I can keep going on full throttle until something "melts".I guess all this hot weather doesn't help either. I also have lots of hills of varying degrees of slope on my ride but my last hill before home is a "killer". Thats the hill on my pic on the right,it just keeps coming up on a very steep gradient all the way from the ocean to the top.

 

[Ken Taylor]

I remember when mine were stock standard with the pedelec the motor kept cutting in and out once I got above 23 klms and hour or thereabouts and the same going up big hills.I presume this helped keep the motor from getting too hot.

I just got one of these and something is not right. The motor keeps cutting in and out or at least the level of assist varies. The assist surges for 5-10 secs then drops off again. When the assist surges, for no obvious reason, the assist is useful but otherwise it's not enough. I can hear the motor faintly when not surging but the bike weighs 28kg so that on average it is more effort to get up a hill than a lighter non assisted bike. I can't figure out a pattern to the surges, increasing the torque by riding in a higher gear doesn't make an obvious difference.

It has a mega range gear and it doesn't need much of a hill before it's needed.

 

[drekkus]

I remember when mine were stock standard with the pedelec the motor kept cutting in and out once I got above 23 klms and hour or thereabouts and the same going up big hills.I presume this helped keep the motor from getting too hot.

I just got one of these and something is not right. The motor keeps cutting in and out or at least the level of assist varies. The assist surges for 5-10 secs then drops off again. When the assist surges, for no obvious reason, the assist is useful but otherwise it's not enough. I can hear the motor faintly when not surging but the bike weighs 28kg so that on average it is more effort to get up a hill than a lighter non assisted bike. I can't figure out a pattern to the surges, increasing the torque by riding in a higher gear doesn't make an obvious difference.

It has a mega range gear and it doesn't need much of a hill before it's needed.

Thats why a lot of people do the throttle conversion. The assist can be a bit flakey and can take some getting use to. The bike is also virtually unrideable without some sort of assist even on the flat. If you're young and fit then you possibly are better off with a nice light non assisted bike but if you are like me then the assist in some form is what keeps you riding. It is still a well made bike in my opinion.

 

[Hillhater]

My 40v ( 10s) 15Ahr (600whr) pack generally gives about 25 km with the pack dropping to 3.7v ( but i rarely charge past 4.0v)
I figure im up at 15 -20 Whrs per km !

Actually i just did a monitored recharge ( rather than a crude "Fill er up" type bulk charge !) ..and it only took 8.8 Whrs to get back to 4.0v.
So those 25km were using 14Whrs per km....not as bad as i thought ! ( much throttle, hills, speed etc )
Now ..to find how to extract the rest of my 15Ahr pack !

 

[Ken Taylor]

Thats why a lot of people do the throttle conversion. The assist can be a bit flakey and can take some getting use to.

You've convinced me. I'm trying the conversion.

The bike is also virtually unrideable without some sort of assist even on the flat.

In its current state I'd agree, the flat is OK with the bit of assist it provides, but the first sign of a slope and its tough. I'm on the megarange heaps. It must have a fault, they couldn't have been sold like this.

If you're young and fit...

That's not me.

I've ordered the lbd14 controller. I'd like to get a battery with a BMS if possible to avoid all the aggravation of watching the voltage, balancing etc. As far as I can tell from here 36V will work. These guys say they will make batteries to order so I'm hoping to get one based on this spec http://www.greenbikekit.com/index.php/36v-lithium-ion-rear-rack-battery.html as specified at http://www.flickr.com/photos/81664624@N00/8400818911/in/set-72157632576845572 and http://www.flickr.com/photos/81664624@N00/sets/72157632576845572/with/8400822309/ . I've ordered a Speedict to control the controller http://www.speedict.com/ . It is discussed in http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22919 . At http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22919&start=840#p690672 . Speedict has asked me :-

hi ken, i checked the tnc scooters website, i couldn't find any information on its throttle type and wire diagram, they just mentioned "Speed Control - Turn or Thumb Throttle" ... or can you show me your throttle input ? twist grip throttle ?

Can anyone here help with the answer? Is it going to work? Any further advice?

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Ken,

That is a lot of interesting info. You will have to be careful with the 8.8AH battery that you don't ride too far from home.My morning ride of about 20klms uses 13AH.I pedal but use lots of throttle as well.

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Hillhater]

Thats why a lot of people do the throttle conversion. The assist can be a bit flakey and can take some getting use to.

Can anyone here help with the answer? Is it going to work? Any further advice?

As drekkus implied, with the new controller, you will need a hand throttle...either twist grip or thumb operated, ..to manually control the motor power assist.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Thanks for the feedback thus far. Speedict found this great parts list.

look ok ... http://myc5.nl/aprilia/eng%20new_controller.htm

I wish I'd found it before I ordered.

You will have to be careful with the 8.8AH battery that you don't ride too far from home.My morning ride of about 20klms uses 13AH.

My first potential battery supplier said no, so I'm trying another. I'm hoping this one http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-8/lifepo4-lithium-phosphate-iron/Detail can be modified to fit the Aprilia box. It is a little more power at 10 AH, but should pretty much fill the box so I can't go bigger.

As drekkus implied, with the new controller, you will need a hand throttle...either twist grip or thumb operated, ..to manually control the motor power assist.

I've ordered this one http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_79_84&product_id=78. Hopefully it is the right one.

 

[drekkus]

You will have to be careful with the 8.8AH battery that you don't ride too far from home.My morning ride of about 20klms uses 13AH.

My first potential battery supplier said no, so I'm trying another. I'm hoping this one http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-8/lifepo4-lithium-phosphate-iron/Detail can be modified to fit the Aprilia box. It is a little more power at 10 AH, but should pretty much fill the box so I can't go bigger.

I managed to fit 2 x 6s 8AH batteries from Hobby King into the Aprilia box without having to do any cutting apart from smoothing out the internal ribs. I guess it depends on how comfortable you are in doing your own wiring and charging.

I've ordered this one http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_79_84&product_id=78. Hopefully it is the right one.

I went through 2 of those before I gave up and just went with a normal twist throttle. It was getting frustrating having to wait 2-3 weeks and have them pack up after a week. Perhaps I was unlucky and I suppose its a bit late but maybe order 2 to play it safe.

 

[Samd]

The spring breaks a lot in those throttles. But I love the shape of them - your thumb hooks under the lug and bam - cruise control.

Last night my battery caught fire - after a big jump on the hardtail. I think the internals of my fuse holder caught fire. The wires were cold, just the fuse holder. i think I must have had a slow blow auto fuse in there. Might be circuit breaker time. Strangely there was still 2.4 volts at the battery case terminals - not all of the fuse had blown. Measuring at the junction of the batteries (other side of the fuse) was still 32.2 volts as expected. I think the usual 30 amps was trying to go thru a small remaining link inside the partially blown fuse and got really hot - and the plastic fuse casing just fried.

Thanks to the hot swappable battery I was able to pull it from the bike as soon as I noticed my crotch on fire, hop off the bike (actually in reverse order) and then just blow the cigarette lighter sized flame out with my mouth. I was standing next to a lake on a bluestone path, so I had some options if it went SNAFU I guess. The fire wasn't huge - and the fuse holder looked like a badly burnt marshmallow.

Time to research fuse alternatives.

 

[drekkus]

The spring breaks a lot in those throttles. But I love the shape of them - your thumb hooks under the lug and bam - cruise control.

Last night my battery caught fire - after a big jump on the hardtail. I think the internals of my fuse holder caught fire. The wires were cold, just the fuse holder. i think I must have had a slow blow auto fuse in there. Might be circuit breaker time. Strangely there was still 2.4 volts at the battery case terminals - not all of the fuse had blown. Measuring at the junction of the batteries (other side of the fuse) was still 32.2 volts as expected. I think the usual 30 amps was trying to go thru a small remaining link inside the partially blown fuse and got really hot - and the plastic fuse casing just fried.

Thanks to the hot swappable battery I was able to pull it from the bike as soon as I noticed my crotch on fire, hop off the bike (actually in reverse order) and then just blow the cigarette lighter sized flame out with my mouth. I was standing next to a lake on a bluestone path, so I had some options if it went SNAFU I guess. The fire wasn't huge - and the fuse holder looked like a badly burnt marshmallow.

Time to research fuse alternatives.

Yeah, I preferred the thumb throttle but cut my loses and went with something more reliable :?


So did you kill the batteries ? .Any idea what actually caused it ? A bit of a coincidence that this has come up as the part I needed to put the fuse on came today. What Amp fuse were you using ? I'm going to be using the same type and setup that the original battery had.

 

[Samd]

Here's my take on it.

The fuse didnt blow entirely and the battery kept trying to supply thirty amps thru a tiny link inside the fuse shell. It got so hot that the fuse casing started to ignite. The lipos were about 30 mm away from the flames, so it was damn close.
Some good advice on sand filled fuses and circuit breakers here. I think I have seen 30A push button circuit breakers at Supercheap Auto.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47192

I'm copping a kicking for a poor choice of title - I probably deserve it. Although it's escalating with hyperbole in an effort to point out my hyperbole. Which is a bit weird.

 

[drekkus]

Here's my take on it.

The fuse didnt blow entirely and the battery kept trying to supply thirty amps thru a tiny link inside the fuse shell. It got so hot that the fuse casing started to ignite. The lipos were about 30 mm away from the flames, so it was damn close.
Some good advice on sand filled fuses and circuit breakers here. I think I have seen 30A push button circuit breakers at Supercheap Auto.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47192

I'm copping a kicking for a poor choice of title - I probably deserve it. Although it's escalating with hyperbole in an effort to point out my hyperbole. Which is a bit weird.

Some are being a little harsh on your title, it wasn't that far away from a LiPo fire.

What fuse setup were you using. Its now got me questioning my simple setup but I'm only running 6s and maybe 30A so auto fuses should still be up to it. If I did the connections well enough :?

How do you post pictures ?

 

[Samd]

*I think* it was a 40 amp auto fuse, or maybe even fifty. It could be that I oversized it so badly that it didn't blow fast enough, and then not entirely. I recall the Aprilia has something like two twenty amp fuses in parallel, which might have merit in blowing better by causing two successive bursts of current, or even three if the first didn't completely trigger. Maybe.

Circuit breaker sounds smart.

You can post pictures by using the upload attachmenttab below your post editing. The files are to be no more than 500k. Best to keep them over 250k or they just link without a thumbnail. Once uploaded, find the spot in the editor where you want it and select 'place inline', and preview the result. There is a wiki on how to do it somewhere here.

Yeah, people can be harsh, but I should've thought more. Some folks just want to be offended, but I'm with Voltaire - no one has the right not to be.

 

[drekkus]

*I think* it was a 40 amp auto fuse, or maybe even fifty. It could be that I oversized it so badly that it didn't blow fast enough, and then not entirely. I recall the Aprilia has something like two twenty amp fuses in parallel, which might have merit in blowing better by causing two successive bursts of current, or even three if the first didn't completely trigger. Maybe.

Circuit breaker sounds smart.

You can post pictures by using the upload attachmenttab below your post editing. The files are to be no more than 500k. Best to keep them over 250k or they just link without a thumbnail. Once uploaded, find the spot in the editor where you want it and select 'place inline', and preview the result. There is a wiki on how to do it somewhere here.

Yeah, people can be harsh, but I should've thought more. Some folks just want to be offended, but I'm with Voltaire - no one has the right not to be.

The Aprilia had 2 x 30A blade fuses and a couple of 5A for the 12v feed. I've put 1 40A in at the moment. I'll see if I can post some pictures of my setup and see if anyone can find any major concerns. It all looks nicely padded and secure though I may have to add an extra piece of foam to stop potential rubbing of the wires on the top of the case.

 

[Samd]

If you hollowed out your battery tray like I did, worth lining anything that imight puncture the lipo with something tough and smooth I suspect!

 

[drekkus]

If you hollowed out your battery tray like I did, worth lining anything that imight puncture the lipo with something tough and smooth I suspect!

Heres some photos ( I thought I had more )







Before anyone asks , they are the nanotech 8000mAh. More expensive yes but smaller so I knew they would fit in the battery box without any cutting. A trade off I was willing to make.
I probably should get rid of the top ribbing or put in another piece of foam. I'm not worried so much about the batteries as they are fairly well protected but more so on the wiring. The batteries have foam top, bottom and sides . Keeps them in place well , allows some battery expansion and gives reasonable protection. The back battery is a little higher so as to minimise any kink of the wires up over the 2nd battery.

 

[Samd]

You'll find that the cells will slowly get 'puffier'. Hence some of the early lipos in phones using hard plastic cases. Allow a bit of room on the sides for swelling up, or get rid of anythign sharp. Nice tidy job. And nice solar charger - i see what you did there!

 

[SP1RITED]

Hi guys, just bought one of the racing models 2nd hand, it is in fantastic condition and as an Aprilia
motorcycle fan couldn't resist.
It works (not sure as nature or aprilia intended) but not overly happy with the way it seams to add
assistance when it feels like rather than when I would want it too (very Italian)
Anyway, going to read through the thread to see the tips into modding it, but probably will need help.
Would electrical engineers (or students) be a good place to get some practical help?

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

Welcome Spirited,

It has been a bit quiet around here for a while now but good to hear you have bought an Aprilia Racing version. They are great little bikes. I have one of each and they are subtlety different from each other.I ride the City version if it looks like rain or I need to pick something up at the shops. The Racing version is more of a sportier model. I have little or no knowledge of electrical matters but I asked questions and simply followed what the "techies" had done to modify their bikes. I suggest you follow all the threads and you will be able to do the same mods yourself. Getting electrical engineer friends to help would make it pretty easy.
The Aprilias in their standard guise are a pain to ride with as you say the assistance coming in at inappropriate times. If you do the mods to your bike you will be amazed at the difference it makes. They end up a pretty fast little weapon out on the cycleways.

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Ken Taylor]

It works (not sure as nature or aprilia intended) but not overly happy with the way it seams to add
assistance when it feels like rather than when I would want it too (very Italian)

That was my experience too see http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=18505&p=690875&hilit=aprilia+ken+taylor#p690582.

I found the torque sensor was faulty. It output about 12 volts independent of torque rather than the much lower voltage it should have. See how to test it at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2715#p37987 .

 

[SP1RITED]

Thanx, have been riding it a bit and have ordered some teny mag style wheels for it.
It also has started making 'graunching' sounds at times when I think the assist kicks in. Not using the pedal
assist at all now which is good for my quads but not why I bought the bike for . . .

 

[Samd]

Watch the graunch as it may stop the internal gears fully meshing at 1100Watts.

Check your end bearing castle nut for looseness. Failing that keep an eye on it - you may want to open it up if it gets worse.

 

[SP1RITED]

Pics with new teny alloy wheels fitted, they are slightly heavier than standard but not noticeable when riding, look great!
Now have to get the rest of the bike sorted . . .

 

[EvoBikeShop]

View attachment 2View attachment 1

Pics with new teny alloy wheels fitted, they are slightly heavier than standard but not noticeable when riding, look great!
Now have to get the rest of the bike sorted . . .

That looks amazing! How much did they cost and where did you get them?

EBS