ASI BAC2000 Bacdoor programming help

[Georgia088]

I have a Bac2000 that came out of a cub cadet electric mower. There are two. One runs the drivetrain. One turns the blade for mowing.

I have successfully connected to one of them with the Bacdoor software. However, I am unable to get it to work. I had to connect the throttle to the controller via pin 7 as the Pinout shows. It was originally handled through the cub cadet ecu via canbus.

In the Bacdoor software, I can see what my throttle voltages are at both ends. Around .8v -2.5v from low to high. I can adjust the parameters so this should be 0-100% throttle. It shows as if the throttle is working on the software, but I can’t get any movement of the motor.

I found a couple of posts on here that had .xml files for different motors. I have attempted to load them and get them to make the motor move, but to no avail. I am confident the motor works.

Can anyone lead me in a direction on which parameters may be preventing the motor from spinning? I know the brakes could be preventing it, but I have adjusted them to different levels, but still nothing.

I would really appreciate any help! I can provide any information that is needed including the original .xml file, specs, anything just ask!

 

[PaulD]

The controller may need some kind of input to tell it what mode to be in, or some kind of enable signal. In BACdoor, is the assist level showing up as "0"?

 

[Georgia088]

Thanks for the response! Assist level is set to 5, but I have tried other xml files that are set to 0. I assume I want it set to 0 for analog throttle?

Thanks!

 

[Georgia088]

I was able to get some movement out of both motors and controllers. It was throwing a motor temp error which I raised the threshold for.

The drive motor does not run smooth at all at low rpm’s, but sounds ok at WOT. Is there a guide or some document I can read about tuning these motors? I can get the specs and info from the original xml file to go by.

Also, is there a reverse setting in the parameters?

Thanks.

 

[PaulD]

There is some tuning info in the knowledge base on the ASI website. It's somewhat limited. Does the motor have hall sensors?
And, yes, there is a reverse enable bit (features parameter). And turn off the reverse interlock bit. Then pull down "cruise" pin to ground to shift into reverse, IIRC.

 

[Georgia088]

There is some tuning info in the knowledge base on the ASI website. It's somewhat limited. Does the motor have hall sensors?
And, yes, there is a reverse enable bit (features parameter). And turn off the reverse interlock bit. Then pull down "cruise" pin to ground to shift into reverse, IIRC.

Yes, they do have the hall sensors. However, I am sure I don’t have them configured correctly in the software. I made changes to the motor nameplate settings by basically copying the original xml file I saved when I first connected to the motor. I tried to make changes to the encoder information, but most of it is over my head. I don’t know what they do or if they need to be changed.

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge, but I’m willing to learn. Other than the RPM, WATTAGE rating of my motor, and number of poles (which was 4 on the original file), I’m really not sure how to tune it.

The way it is now there is basically 3-4-full throttle after a lot of whining up until about half throttle input and then a really jerky start. Once it gets past this, it seems relatively smooth above 3/4 throttle.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Georgia088]

There is some tuning info in the knowledge base on the ASI website. It's somewhat limited. Does the motor have hall sensors?
And, yes, there is a reverse enable bit (features parameter). And turn off the reverse interlock bit. Then pull down "cruise" pin to ground to shift into reverse, IIRC.

Thanks. I worked on it a while today. I was able to get both motors functioning. The deck motor seems to work well. It really only needs on/off. WOT to cut grass or off. I was able to get this by simply adding a SPDT switch with the throttle PIN (number 7) either connected to 5v (on) or b- (off). I adjusted the throttle values to represent this.

I did have to increase the radian value for current bandwidth regulator parameter and increase the time to ramp up the current from 500ms to prevent the instantaneous phase current fault. This seems to work well.

The drive motor however is still very shaky/jerky/rough on startup with a 0-5v throttle. I attempted to adjust the same settings, but it’s still not smooth at all. It jerks and sometimes throws a fault if high torque is needed to move the mower.

Any ideas how to improve the ability of the motor to “start” when the throttle is pressed so that it is smoother, doesn’t jerk and has more torque when starting?

It seems this should be simple, but there are sooo many settings that I don’t understand. Again, I appreciate any help!

 

[PaulD]

So, what did you change to make them work? What was wrong? Isn't this the stock controller with the stock settings?
Sometimes jerky start up suggests the controller is trying to start in sensorless mode if there is a hall sensor issue. But it could be other tuning issues as well.

 

[slaphappygamer]

Any ideas how to improve the ability of the motor to “start” when the throttle is pressed so that it is smoother, doesn’t jerk and has more torque when starting?

I had a similar issue with my BaseRunner (based on ASI). The Current Regulator Bandwidth interplays with PLL Regulation Control Loop. When getting a decently smooth launch (this will be different for different users so it will take some time to identify). Once you have decent launch, then play with the PLL Control Loop. Slight adjustments (high or lower) and you will begin to notice the shutter calming down. You may have to back, and forth, to the Current Regulator Bandwidth to make finer adjustments. For me, this took a few months as I had to leave tweaking sessions to attend to more pressing (family) matters.

 

[Georgia088]

So, what did you change to make them work? What was wrong? Isn't this the stock controller with the stock settings?
Sometimes jerky start up suggests the controller is trying to start in sensorless mode if there is a hall sensor issue. But it could be other tuning issues as well.

How do you know in the software if you are running the motor in sensor or senseless mode? I don't' think I've seen the setting to set it to one or the other.

The main change I made was changing these parameters:
Current Regulator Bandwidth It was set at 1500 radian I have increased it to 30000. I am not sure what this does?

The other was: the "speed limit ramp time" I increase it from 500ms to 3000ms

I am actually looking at my files now, and I'm not sure the latest file I flashed has the 500ms to 3000 ms changed. I will need to check this.

 

[Georgia088]

I had a similar issue with my BaseRunner (based on ASI). The Current Regulator Bandwidth interplays with PLL Regulation Control Loop. When getting a decently smooth launch (this will be different for different users so it will take some time to identify). Once you have decent launch, then play with the PLL Control Loop. Slight adjustments (high or lower) and you will begin to notice the shutter calming down. You may have to back, and forth, to the Current Regulator Bandwidth to make finer adjustments. For me, this took a few months as I had to leave tweaking sessions to attend to more pressing (family) matters.

Thanks! I will try this, but I really am having a hard time understanding what its actually doing. I will read and reread it a few times. What size motor are you running? Could you share what you parameters you ended up with?

Thanks!

 

[slaphappygamer]

I have a Shengyi DGW22 rear hub motor. Here are my settings in the PhaseRunner suite, but you’ll notice many similar parameters.

 

[Georgia088]

Thanks! Was yours this bad? You can see at low rpm something isn’t right.

 

[slaphappygamer]

My issue was similar but, the stuttering I had was more violent. It was only at low rpm/takeoff.

I highly suggest taking screenshots as you change (especially before you begin) the settings for Current Regulator Bandwidth and PLL parameters so you can refer back to them later if this method doesn’t help.

 

[PaulD]

I think you have a hall sensor issue. It looks like it's reverting to sensorless mode. You can test this by changing the "fault tolerant hall" bit in the "features" parameter to 0. If you do that and try again, the motor won't move at all. This would verify that you have perhaps a bad hall sensor or wiring problem, or your halls are not mapped properly.

 

[Georgia088]

I think you have a hall sensor issue. It looks like it's reverting to sensorless mode. You can test this by changing the "fault tolerant hall" bit in the "features" parameter to 0. If you do that and try again, the motor won't move at all. This would verify that you have perhaps a bad hall sensor or wiring problem, or your halls are not mapped properly.

Ok. I will check. How do you map them correctly? I’m guessing I have not done this.

 

[Georgia088]

I don’t see the fault tolerant hall in the features parameter. Am I missing something?

 

[slaphappygamer]

Could that option be in the “motor features” tab?

 

[Georgia088]

Could that option be in the “motor features” tab?

It was under the motor features tab. It will work with the fault tollerant hall parameter set to 0 or 1. It doesn't seem to make a difference in performance.

I'm confused as to what it means. It says fault tolerant hall (switch to sensorless). 0 Bit = disable 1 Bit = enable. Does this mean 0 is sensorless or sensored?

I did go back and recheck the original settings from the controller before I made any changes to the controller and it was controlled via the can (ECU) The hall offset settings, Ls, Hall interpolation Start/Stop frequency were all different. Even though I thought they were the same. I had a hard time getting these settings to save. I'm not sure why.

I changed these one at a time. The offset settings didn't seem to make a difference in performance, but the Ls and interpolation Start/Stop did. With all of the settings set to the same as the original settings (other than Ls) it does seem a little smoother starting. However, it starts super fast. I drove the mower and it will jerk you out of the seat nearly on startup. The throttle is smooth reading, but the rotation of the motor goes from 0 rpm to 3/4-max seemingly instantly. How do I slow this down?

The Ls setting makes a loud screeching noise before the motor moves if I set it to where the original settings are. The original settings have it at 105 uHenries where the code I found has it at 32. At 105, it doesn't sound good at all. Just by ear, 32 sounded the best... I don't know what this is doing.

I appreciate the input.

Thanks.

 

[PaulD]

Hmmm. Can you confirm that the pole pair count is correct? The "rated motor speed" needs to be in the right ballpark too.

 

[slaphappygamer]

You can also adjust the throttle ramping to slow the acceleration. Since now the motor starting smoothly.

Also, is the motor running smooth while under load? There could be a big difference between loaded and unloaded (wheel off the ground) acceleration.

 

[Georgia088]

Hmmm. Can you confirm that the pole pair count is correct? The "rated motor speed" needs to be in the right ballpark too.

How would I check the pole count? According to the original file I saved before making changes, it showed a 4 pole count.
I’m still unsure what the test I did changing the hall fault tolerant bit. If it is set to 0 is that sensored mode?

I did adjust the speed ramp times to :

Speed limit ramp time 1000 ms
Positive motoring torque ramp 1000
Negative motoring torque ramp 2000
Positive braking torque ramp 200
Negative braking torque ramp 250
Pedalac positive motoring torque 500
Pedalac negative motoring torque 50

These seemed to help. Before it would stall for about a second and then pick the tires up off the ground as it started.

 

[Georgia088]

You can also adjust the throttle ramping to slow the acceleration. Since now the motor starting smoothly.

Also, is the motor running smooth while under load? There could be a big difference between loaded and unloaded (wheel off the ground) acceleration.

It is definitely better after adjusting the ramp times above. I also adjusted the braking % which seemed to help. I am now doing all adjustments on the machine as it would be driven under normal load.

With adjusting the ramp times and adding braking percentage it will now pull off if for example I am rolling backwards and then accelerate forward. Before it would stall.

Now, the worst part is accelerating from a coast. If you are not really easy on the accelerator while coasting it will take off nearly lifting tires off the ground.

I am getting closer for sure. I think it’s useable now. I am just trying to dial it in.

Thanks again for input.

 

[mdmags]

I have a Bac2000 that came out of a cub cadet electric mower. There are two. One runs the drivetrain. One turns the blade for mowing.

I have successfully connected to one of them with the Bacdoor software. However, I am unable to get it to work. I had to connect the throttle to the controller via pin 7 as the Pinout shows. It was originally handled through the cub cadet ecu via canbus.

In the Bacdoor software, I can see what my throttle voltages are at both ends. Around .8v -2.5v from low to high. I can adjust the parameters so this should be 0-100% throttle. It shows as if the throttle is working on the software, but I can’t get any movement of the motor.

I found a couple of posts on here that had .xml files for different motors. I have attempted to load them and get them to make the motor move, but to no avail. I am confident the motor works.

Can anyone lead me in a direction on which parameters may be preventing the motor from spinning? I know the brakes could be preventing it, but I have adjusted them to different levels, but still nothing.

I would really appreciate any help! I can provide any information that is needed including the original .xml file, specs, anything just ask!

Hey Georgia088,
I've got a 2020 Cub Cadet XT1 LT42E that I've been chasing a no-start issue on for months. Same BAC Cd2000 MTD,NX15 controllers as yours, but I'm trying to keep mine running in the original mower with the CAN bus communication intact rather than standalone.

I've replaced or tested just about everything at this point - deck controllers, traction controller, SPDM, VCM, CAN bus termination - and I'm stuck on E0108/E0116 fault codes. I'm pretty sure my used traction controller (from a different model) doesn't have matching CAN settings, which is why the system won't complete the startup handshake.

I need to get into Bacdoor to verify and fix the CAN configuration. A couple of questions:

1. How did you connect to your Cd2000 - serial or CAN? My MTD variant is fully sealed with no visible serial header, just the two main connectors. I'm thinking I may need to go through CAN-H/CAN-L with a PCAN-USB adapter.
2. Where did you get the Bacdoor software?
3. Any chance you saved the original .xml config from your traction controller before you started modifying it? That baseline would be incredibly helpful.

I've got detailed notes on everything I've tested if any of that would be useful context. Appreciate any help - this thing has been a puzzle but I'm not giving up on it.
Thank you,
Matt

 

[Georgia088]

Hey Georgia088,
I've got a 2020 Cub Cadet XT1 LT42E that I've been chasing a no-start issue on for months. Same BAC Cd2000 MTD,NX15 controllers as yours, but I'm trying to keep mine running in the original mower with the CAN bus communication intact rather than standalone.

I've replaced or tested just about everything at this point - deck controllers, traction controller, SPDM, VCM, CAN bus termination - and I'm stuck on E0108/E0116 fault codes. I'm pretty sure my used traction controller (from a different model) doesn't have matching CAN settings, which is why the system won't complete the startup handshake.

I need to get into Bacdoor to verify and fix the CAN configuration. A couple of questions:

1. How did you connect to your Cd2000 - serial or CAN? My MTD variant is fully sealed with no visible serial header, just the two main connectors. I'm thinking I may need to go through CAN-H/CAN-L with a PCAN-USB adapter.
2. Where did you get the Bacdoor software?
3. Any chance you saved the original .xml config from your traction controller before you started modifying it? That baseline would be incredibly helpful.

I've got detailed notes on everything I've tested if any of that would be useful context. Appreciate any help - this thing has been a puzzle but I'm not giving up on it.
Thank you,
Matt

I used the serial. I’m trying to remember, but I know mine was labeled. I can’t help at all with the can connection. If you will pm me an email I think I still have the original xml files. I can also probably send you the Bacdoor software.

Hope that helps.