Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes
- Thread starter Slowrider
- Start date
Hi, I hope someone can shed any light on this.
I have done 60 miles with my BBS02 750w kit, and love it. However, I went for a ride and after a brief rest and then continuing the motor started jolting and an exclamation mark was coming on the C965 screen. No error codes are appearing, just the exclamation mark then the motor jolts. This now comes on all the time when the throttle is used, where it didn't before. I have tried it with a different battery pack, but still the same issues arise.
Have I damaged the controller? Has anyone else come across this before?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
I have done 60 miles with my BBS02 750w kit, and love it. However, I went for a ride and after a brief rest and then continuing the motor started jolting and an exclamation mark was coming on the C965 screen. No error codes are appearing, just the exclamation mark then the motor jolts. This now comes on all the time when the throttle is used, where it didn't before. I have tried it with a different battery pack, but still the same issues arise.
Have I damaged the controller? Has anyone else come across this before?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
dumbass
100 kW
rinse04 said:
I know this I going to sound stupid but what the heck it's easy to test. If you haven't already done it check all your connections to be sure they are tight. Test bike. If you still have the problem try disconnecting both brake cables and retest the bike. If you find the problem is solved re-plug one cable at a time to find which is problem. No telling what the problem is but at least this will take one thing out of the equation for you. And who knows; maybe with luck it's just a brake switch the is intermittently failing. Just a thought.
Bob
Hi Bob
I didn't install the brake switches, as I didn't see a need for them in my build, so I know it can't be them.
I have checked all wires and they are all tight. Would this happen if the MOSFETs had failed? The drive works fine when in PAS, but as soon as power is applied on the throttle, the motor seems to struggle, jitter and the light is flashing... This didn't happen within the first 60 miles.
Thank you for your help.
Chris
I didn't install the brake switches, as I didn't see a need for them in my build, so I know it can't be them.
I have checked all wires and they are all tight. Would this happen if the MOSFETs had failed? The drive works fine when in PAS, but as soon as power is applied on the throttle, the motor seems to struggle, jitter and the light is flashing... This didn't happen within the first 60 miles.
Thank you for your help.
Chris
tomjasz
1 GW
Do you have a backup throttle? Many vendors suggest you add one at the time of purchase since they are cheap, and do go stupid. I've had a couple of fails and now ALWAYS keep a spare or two. Even as a tester, having a spare pays off.
tomjasz
1 GW
So you had a spare throttle with the BBS02 "Higo" connector? Sorry to repeat here but that mirrors a throttle problem I had. Mosfet's won't interrupt throttle response. Odd. I'd be going over the connectors again. That said Sam Dee reported wires in one of his controller units were damaged after some use. If I remember correctly they had wear from the vibration and not being well shielded.
Yes, I bought a twist throttle and has the original thumb throttle as a spare. I've just been out on it again and it seems to happen once load is applied, as it was happening in PAS too, but only when it couldn't deal with any load. Didn't have this issue prior.
speedmd
10 MW
Sounds like a battery going dead /connector not supplying steady current.. What is your setup like.
speedmd
10 MW
Make sure the battery connectors are solidly clicking together. Most here have had the issue at one time or another and swore it was solid only to find it was not. Connectors are notorious for this if contacts are not seated 100%.
snowranger
10 kW
ginekolog said:
I just changed my pinion gear last night. So much quieter and smoother. I got 2500 miles out of this gear. I am wondering what a typical life span is with moderate power.
There is also a new motor version with a new gear type. Does anyone know if this is much more durable?
ginekolog
10 W
snowranger said:
I inspected changed pinion gear after 500km. Everything seems good and quiet for now. No visible wear. I hope new gear is better quality. I LOVE riding it on singletracks
wompus
10 mW
turbotuli said:
Ever figure this out? I am having error 30 issues with my BBS02. I have ~800 miles on it at this point. I tried connecting to the controller with the empowered cable, but no luck there. I had never tried it, but seems like it should work. This makes me think it's in the controller. Hopefully have time this evening to dig out the potting material and see if a wire is loose...otherwise i guess it's new controller time?
Hi Guys,
I need to report the noise from the motor AGAIN. I have about 2800 miles on the motor and it works like this
https://youtu.be/rhUuzxlTy5o
History of the motor:
- Needed to swap the controller as asked by Paul (em3ev)
- I had this noise around 1200-1400 miles, do not remember exactly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV7UvRi6bAc
- Around 1850 miles on the motor I had similar noise
https://youtu.be/e-qjojAQPzM
After a couple of emails with Paul, he agreed to repair the motor under warranty. I was informed that the gears were worn. They lasted 500-600 miles!?
It appears that the motor is silent for around 1000 miles only. I am commuting 26 miles per day. Flat terrain. Northern California - perfect weather for riding a bike. I am not doing more than 25 mph. When starting from the stop, I pedal until reaching 10-12 mph and then I start using throttle and gradually changing the gears from 4-5 to 7 (out of 8).
Questions:
- Do you think these are the gears that are worn and are making the noise? If so, is it easy to replace them? Where to buy the parts?
- What is the expected life of the gears?
I am commuting 500-600 miles per month. If I need to change the gears every second month, I consider the purchase of Bafang not a clever move…
Thanks!
I need to report the noise from the motor AGAIN. I have about 2800 miles on the motor and it works like this
https://youtu.be/rhUuzxlTy5o
History of the motor:
- Needed to swap the controller as asked by Paul (em3ev)
- I had this noise around 1200-1400 miles, do not remember exactly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV7UvRi6bAc
- Around 1850 miles on the motor I had similar noise
https://youtu.be/e-qjojAQPzM
After a couple of emails with Paul, he agreed to repair the motor under warranty. I was informed that the gears were worn. They lasted 500-600 miles!?
It appears that the motor is silent for around 1000 miles only. I am commuting 26 miles per day. Flat terrain. Northern California - perfect weather for riding a bike. I am not doing more than 25 mph. When starting from the stop, I pedal until reaching 10-12 mph and then I start using throttle and gradually changing the gears from 4-5 to 7 (out of 8).
Questions:
- Do you think these are the gears that are worn and are making the noise? If so, is it easy to replace them? Where to buy the parts?
- What is the expected life of the gears?
I am commuting 500-600 miles per month. If I need to change the gears every second month, I consider the purchase of Bafang not a clever move…
Thanks!
tomjasz
1 GW
Um, Something seems missing in this story. I'd be looking at an alternative motor.
tomjasz
1 GW
Both of mine have over 1000 now. No glitches. Several installed for locals, same success. I've been talking with two active suppliers who are not seeing a repeat of your problems. I've always thought yours was a lemon. I think I would have insisted on a new motor or moved to a new vendor and type.
speedmd
10 MW
Sounds like it has been run dry. No or not sufficient/proper grease. 1000 miles is pretty good if so. If you want it perfectly quiet, the gears need to run with little to no play and lots of thick lube. I see a dd hub motor in your future if you can not live with a little bit of gear noise and the maintenance required to keep them alive. To me, from your video it sounds like they still have tons of life left in them and your hitting a low power level rattle/ harmonic that should and would be avoided at most speed / power levels. Just one of those mechanical artifacts. I for one would like to see you use it until it dies to see if it is just one of those things. Reminds me of my early water cooled vw. It had a distinctive rattle at no load spinning 1400-1450 rpms. Dealer tore it apart several times chasing con rod / main bearings when it was near new. Never could fix it because there was nothing wrong with it other than some natural resonance designed into one of the chain/ belt drive lines. When you over tightened the cog belt it improved at the expense of the idler bearing. Went years and years and took tons of abuse and never changed.
speedmd
10 MW
Absolutely! Pack it with the right stuff if it can stay put. Use thicker stuff if it can not.
tomjasz
1 GW
Knowing where it was repaired I doubt it was not properly lubricated. I still think it should have ben replaced in January!
speedmd
10 MW
It may be that the bearings holding the shafts are worn and allowing too much clearance between the teeth now. Don't disagree that this all should have been taking care of properly the first time but as good as some vendors are they may not know any better or have tools / experience enough to see deep enough into all the component fit / wear issues early on in a products life. If it does not quite up with good thick grease, it may be time to dig deeper into this. Regardless, we all benefit from seeing and hearing all the little wear issues creep in on these and learn exactly what to do to fix them.
Hi
Regarding noises from BB and internal crank gearing.
.
I have KMX Venom with the 750W (I also have a spare 750W motor) and after many evenings of reading these posts, I decided to work out
a lubrication and service cycle on both motors.
Every 250-350 miles I remove the freewheel gear cover and re-grease the freewheel gear and pinion gear using Castrol automotive axle grease.
This is much thicker and the gearing stays much quieter for longer in my experience. I have also not noticed any significant wear on the teeth of the gears.
Then, Every 450-550 miles I fully strip the motor down. I inspect the sprag clutch (Have found that I have not yet had to re-lubricate it, but I will
have to find a suitable replacement lubricant as it will have to be done within the next couple of strip downs). I fully de-grease all the remaining
areas of the motor (BB bearings, freewheel gear, pinion gear and motor housing) and inspect for wear/damage. If all OK. I re-assemble using the axle
grease in all BB bearings and a good amount in freewheel/pinion gear.
I have a full set of internal spare gears, bearings and crankshaft. So I am hoping to not have to use any of them for a long time. I'm hoping
the above service/lube schedule will allow this to happen. I think I'm knocking on the door of 1800 miles on the main motor I use. The
spare is a warranty replacement for the very first motor I had which suffered BB bearing failure after 280 miles. I bought the current motor
from a different seller as they had it in stock, as I would have to wait a few weeks for my replacement.
If you think about it. The final drive in a car for example. All of the gears are immersed in their lubricant in a sealed housing.
In our motors we have to use grease which only has a short life as a lubricant in the final drive as it is eventually dispersed from the gear teeth
to the inside of the housing and cover. Therefore regular re-lubrication is required.
Again similar applies to the BB bearings but with longer period between re-lubes.
The roller bearings have a groove around the outer periphery with holes to the inside of bearing, indicating their primary lubrication method
would be oil under pressure. Again we have to use grease so regular re-lube is also needed to keep wear in both bearings and crankshaft bearing
surfaces to a minimum.
I am looking into installing a grease nipple on the freewheel gear housing to ease re-lubrication of the freewheel/pinion gears.
I hope the above helps some of you guys, but you'll have to spare 2-3 hours and be prepared to strip you motor down and get very greasy fingers.
It seems to work well for me.
BTW, you can do all of the above with the motor still fitted in your BB. The only thing you won't be able to access is the sprag clutch. (Controller
removal required for this to allow the three motor winding wires to be pushed through as the motor section is removed).
Regarding noises from BB and internal crank gearing.
.
I have KMX Venom with the 750W (I also have a spare 750W motor) and after many evenings of reading these posts, I decided to work out
a lubrication and service cycle on both motors.
Every 250-350 miles I remove the freewheel gear cover and re-grease the freewheel gear and pinion gear using Castrol automotive axle grease.
This is much thicker and the gearing stays much quieter for longer in my experience. I have also not noticed any significant wear on the teeth of the gears.
Then, Every 450-550 miles I fully strip the motor down. I inspect the sprag clutch (Have found that I have not yet had to re-lubricate it, but I will
have to find a suitable replacement lubricant as it will have to be done within the next couple of strip downs). I fully de-grease all the remaining
areas of the motor (BB bearings, freewheel gear, pinion gear and motor housing) and inspect for wear/damage. If all OK. I re-assemble using the axle
grease in all BB bearings and a good amount in freewheel/pinion gear.
I have a full set of internal spare gears, bearings and crankshaft. So I am hoping to not have to use any of them for a long time. I'm hoping
the above service/lube schedule will allow this to happen. I think I'm knocking on the door of 1800 miles on the main motor I use. The
spare is a warranty replacement for the very first motor I had which suffered BB bearing failure after 280 miles. I bought the current motor
from a different seller as they had it in stock, as I would have to wait a few weeks for my replacement.
If you think about it. The final drive in a car for example. All of the gears are immersed in their lubricant in a sealed housing.
In our motors we have to use grease which only has a short life as a lubricant in the final drive as it is eventually dispersed from the gear teeth
to the inside of the housing and cover. Therefore regular re-lubrication is required.
Again similar applies to the BB bearings but with longer period between re-lubes.
The roller bearings have a groove around the outer periphery with holes to the inside of bearing, indicating their primary lubrication method
would be oil under pressure. Again we have to use grease so regular re-lube is also needed to keep wear in both bearings and crankshaft bearing
surfaces to a minimum.
I am looking into installing a grease nipple on the freewheel gear housing to ease re-lubrication of the freewheel/pinion gears.
I hope the above helps some of you guys, but you'll have to spare 2-3 hours and be prepared to strip you motor down and get very greasy fingers.
It seems to work well for me.
BTW, you can do all of the above with the motor still fitted in your BB. The only thing you won't be able to access is the sprag clutch. (Controller
removal required for this to allow the three motor winding wires to be pushed through as the motor section is removed).
