Battery Balancing

ridgerunner

10 µW
Joined
Mar 17, 2020
Messages
5
Can someone please tell me where is battery balancing done? I've seen battery chargers that have battery balancing and I've also seen BMS that have battery balancing in them and finally I've seen stand alone battery balancing circuits?? I'm very confused as it all seems very loosely done.....there seems to be no general rules on this...

Thanks for the responses
 
ridgerunner said:
Can someone please tell me where is battery balancing done? I've seen battery chargers that have battery balancing and I've also seen BMS that have battery balancing in them and finally I've seen stand alone battery balancing circuits??
If all cell connections* are brought out to the charging connector - then balancing is done in the charger. If not - it is done in the BMS. You can have a combined BMS where the BMS monitors and balances voltage, or you can have a separated BMS where one part does balancing and the other part does monitoring. But it's always the BMS. (BMS stands for battery management system, which includes balancing.)


(* - in other words, if it's a 10S battery the charging connector would have 11 wires.)
 
Is it common for Chinese products to use the terms loosely? I've seen Battery Chargers called as such with Balancing and no where near the n+1 wire count you are talking about.....
 
1. The bms that do balancing don't start to balance until the the cell voltage gets to about 4.18 volts during charging, then they bleed the cell at about 60ma while the other cells catch up. If you are charging at high amps and pack is severely out of balance the bms will not give you a good charge, it shuts off to early. The bms won't balance when discharging.

2. The balance charger also starts to balance as soon as the high cell reaches about 4.18 volts, but a balance charger can bleed at up to 1 amp, this will give you a full charge since it can keep up when charging at higher amps.

3. If you have a pack with balance issues, stand alone active balancers, are always balancing when charging/discharging. It always keeps the pack in balance. They are more expensive. Some can balance at up to 6 amps per cell.

If you build a pack with good cells, you shouldn't have any balance issues. All it takes is one cell that self discharges to give you balance issues.

I use these active balancers on my 4s 220ah lifepo4 that always goes out of balance when charging. I been using them for the past 2 years and they keep battery in perfect balance. I paid 92 dollars for them. The pack has 160 cells, too much trouble to take apart to find the weak cell.
active balancers.jpg
 
also note that not all bms units have balancers. for instance, upp unit pack power apparently does not generally use balancing bms units in their batteries, unless you specifically ask for it and pay them more. packs like that have no way at all of balancing as they don't have external balance wires either...so they just get mroe and more out of balance as they age, unless the user disassembles them and fixes that manually.


additionally, not all bms units do balancing only during charge. some can do it all the time; these are typically capacitive balancers that don't use resistive shunts to "bypass" charge current around a cell (or to drain high cells when charge current shuts off). they shuffle charge out of high cells and into low ones. it's a little more efficient than the resistive type...but it's not likely to be any faster.

none of these typical bms units are intended to balance big differences between cells, they're only meant to keep small differences between cells from growing large. if a pack starts out with big differences, like with poor quality packs made of junk cells, or recycled cells, or other mismatched cells, it can be difficult or impossible for a typical bms to keep them in balance, unless the charger is left on it all the time it's not in use (can take days to fix an imbalance, or even weeks for really bad problems).

a good pack that's made of well-matched good quality cells, and used well within it's limits, not pushed too hard, may not even need balancing until it ages enough to become mismatched between cells.



further, some bms units are programmable, so that you may change the point at which they begin balancing, as well as their hvc and lvc points, etc. how much adjustment range you get may vary by the design of a particular unit.


some also have built in or remote displays (some even bluetooth to your phone), so that you may monitor pack status, (and sometiems change settings).
 
There are many many methods and device types.

Many BMSs do a terrible job

some "protective only" don't balance at all.

Dedicated balancers may be called "non-protective BMS".

Many use balancing chargers.

Some just do it manually with lab-style adjustable PSU.

There's top balancing (most common because easy to automate cheaply), bottom balancing, middle balancing, and full time balancing.

Some don't do it at all.

Each sub-topic could be discussed and argued by experienced experts for hundreds of pages.

A lot depends what the use case is, what kind of cells / pack / interconnect method.

Key specifications include

Start-balance voltage

Balance current

Stop-balance delta

Ideally at least the first is adjustable. For the secong, higher is better to reduce time required.
 
Probably best to link to the example devices to ask specific questions.

Ideally with English documentation.

Also describe your use case and cells & pack, current condition, sample voltages etc
 
State of charge. Is 2 list call yourself groups on a piece of paper started at the negative end like

1. 3.85 v
2. 3.65v
3. 4.09v


10, Xxx volt
Now you know the state of charge and balance.
Charger voltage and battery voltage on.
Now tell what battery you have and a link
 
john61ct said:
There are many many methods and device types.

Many BMSs do a terrible job

some "protective only" don't balance at all.

Dedicated balancers may be called "non-protective BMS".

Many use balancing chargers.

Some just do it manually with lab-style adjustable PSU.

There's top balancing (most common because easy to automate cheaply), bottom balancing, middle balancing, and full time balancing.

Some don't do it at all.

Each sub-topic could be discussed and argued by experienced experts for hundreds of pages.

A lot depends what the use case is, what kind of cells / pack / interconnect method.

Key specifications include

Start-balance voltage

Balance current

Stop-balance delta

Ideally at least the first is adjustable. For the secong, higher is better to reduce time required.

HI John61, I am noob, first pack ill build. What gear would you suggest me to include for a 16s used headway 8ah cells from batteryhookup?I could buy 18 , i would not mind to eventually change a weak cell if needed. what mix of gear would keep me from frequently opening fiddeling with the pack once assembled? A protective onlybms plus a dedicated balancer? wich charger.
thanks
 
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