It appears that everyone is out of stock on a bbshd controller with anderson connectors. Is there a supplier or seller with the ability to sell this controller? I am having issues with my bbshd that I believe would be fixed by replacing it.
BBSHD controller with anderson connectors
- Thread starter BBSHME
- Start date
It's not that hard to replace the bullet style connectors with Andersons.
tomjasz
1 GW
The reason they are not available is the high failure rate of the Anderson connectors. I suspect they were NOT original Anderson and/or they were poorly implemented. I had a few replacement sets in the matching colors, from Grin. But when Bafang, to my joy, stopped using them I lost track of my small stash. Powerwerx
BTW your BBSHD version, the earliest versions of the BBSHD has a bad rotor shaft. Many have failed and Bafang made them stronger in later versions.
I'd be saving my dollars for the latest BBSHD version.
BTW your BBSHD version, the earliest versions of the BBSHD has a bad rotor shaft. Many have failed and Bafang made them stronger in later versions.
I'd be saving my dollars for the latest BBSHD version.
Bengy22
100 W
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2019
- Messages
- 164
I would save for a little longer, bbshd with a torque sensor was spotted at eurobike at the AccolmileBike stand. Hopefully more news to come soon!
tomjasz
1 GW
Likely the system that locks us out of programming and has a proprietary battery ala Bosch
There is no replacing the motor without destroying the frame, it is rusted in for good. If I replace the controller with one that is Anderson connected, I can use it with my other bbshds that have all been bomber with daily use over 5 years in the event that the motor blew.
Whenever something that works well gets an "update" it often makes it worse. Unless it is 5 pounds lighter and worls the same, I am mot interested. I have ridden some torque sensing bikes that were unpredictable and it might be a purchase I regret.
Perhaps, but I have 4 motors with andersons so it would be nice to not have to do that. The one controller that I bought and returned didn't have bullets or andersons, I don't know what they were called. Also, if there were different styles of bullets, I wouldn't want to get the wrong one
tomjasz
1 GW
who wants to go backwards to the old firmware? and again the anderson versions had a lot of warranty issues with the anderson connectors. i’m certain i had more than a dozen issues with those we sold. Zero issues in the next ( years with ballet connectors. get a good anderson crumpet and you’re golden.
I'm not sure, but I think that they meant you could replace the bullet connectors on the new controller with Andersons that match your motor. With the proper crimper its' pretty easy to install the anderson PP45 contacts (most likely those are the size you'd need).
This way you are only modifying the controller, not the motors, and it is much less work.
I would in this case recommend not cutting the bullet connectors off, but instead de-crimping them by cutting into the crimp portion of the bullet, and pulling htem off the wires. Then you can keep the full lenght of the wires, which you will probably need in order to fit everything normally. Just crimp the PP contacts to these existing exposed wire ends, and then insert the PP contacts into their housings all the way.
I recommend that before you crimp the contacts, you pre-position them on the wires and test fit the controller in place in the motor housing, so that the contacts are pre-rotated to match the rotation of the resting position of the motor-side contacts, then crimp the contacts to the wires in that position. This minimizes the twisting forces applied to the contacts when installed.
The reason systems have problems with Anderson PP connectors (when they are otherwise properly rated, crimped, etc) is usually that the wires are routed away from them in such a way that they create tension at an angle to the connector, or they are on wires that are twisted relative to those they are plugging into, so that it pulls on the contact inside to angle or twist it away a bit from the contact on the mating connector, which increases the contact resistance, and increases heating at the contact point. This can cause softening of the housing plastic, which allows distortion of the housing, and furthering the poor contact and increasing the contact resistance, etc. It's worse with non-genuine PPs, because they usually use either thinner or softer plastic with a lower heat tolerance, or both...but even genuine ones will still fail in this situation.
This is especially a problem inside a confined space, made worse when you can't actually see what is happening inside the space regarding wire routing and angles once it's all closed up, to diagnose such a problem.
If it ain't broke don't fix. And if it hasn't broken with over 5 years of heavy abuse it isn't something I am nervous about continuing to use even if there were problems with every other bbshd on earth.
I could mess up the installation of the ballet connectors, buy the wrong ones, ruin the controller so I can't return it and so on. I am not sure the problem is the controller, so I would want to be able to test it out before being fully committed to the purchase. I would take factory installed andersons over a me installed connector in my experience, but as of right now I don't even know what connectors (andersons, ballet, bullet) to buy to get the new controller on there.
I appreciate the help, but I would really like a source for a new or used controller with anderson connectors. Since they are so inferior, I will gladly take several of them off your hands!
BBSHD permanently stops assisting
My BBSHD has a very odd issue and this is coming from someone who addressed several issues in the past on several different motors. This motor has thousands of high intensity miles on it and it is about 6 years old. I was recently riding in wet and muddy conditions when the harness cable...
endless-sphere.com
Here is a thread with the problem I am experiencing. It sounds like there are very knowledgeable and helpful people here who might have a solution that doesn't require rewiring a new controller which would be awesome as those puppies are pricey.
The TLDR version is I have to rotate my wheel backwards for a second to get my throttle and pedal assist to operate normally, then when I stop pedaling neither pedal assist or throttle will work until I get off the bike and rotate the wheel backward again.
I've posted a reply there with some thoughts.
Bengy22
100 W
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2019
- Messages
- 164
Yep just watched High voltages video on it, It's a revision of the m625 NOT the bbshd. So stuck with their shit canbus system locked down and only their "smile" batteries, HARD PASS! Why bafang decided to upgrade the m625 when it's unanimously decided the m625 was in everyway worse than the bbshd I have no clue. Sad day though
tomjasz
1 GW
or were they Anderson clones and the inserts were poorly seated. i saw that a dozen times. i’m curious as to who saw your scenario? not doubting but curious as to how common your take happened. great observation, thank you.
tomjasz
1 GW
i’m certain any old stock is unobtanium. i’m in the camp that thinks now is the time to stash a few BBSHD. i’m also suspecting Bafang is looking to abandon the DIY market in fsvoof s Bosch, Shimano, and et al business model and denying the right to repair. hopefully the movement to insure access to parts and schematics will win the day. BTW has anyone ever seen a BBSxx series complete diagram.!!?? Bafang has long been a pain in the arse for DIY fellas. we got more this forum than Bafang.
tomjasz
1 GW
luck pure luck regarding the rotor shaft. we sold an amazing number of backwards compatible rotors with compatible bearing for the weak shaft versions.
Various member's posts on here over the years with pictures of failures (mostly of hubmotor phase wire failures, mostly of those that were tied down to the frame rather than "floating") led me to deliberate experimentation and personal experience. Not just on the PP types, but also on the SB-class shells (which use the PP style contacts and work the same way) Not sure if the pics are still here after all the forum conversions server transfers, and upgrades, but they should be in one of my threads, I think, at least several years back.
As to frequency of such failures, I don't know, but if you have a setup that prevents flat mating of the contacts, they'll have higher resistance and you'll see the cascade if currrent is high enough to cause heating.
You'll see it fail faster in softer plastic housings, and because those also probalby have weaker spring tabs under teh contacts, they also become misaligned (non flat mating of contacts) causing the higher resistance, easier than the housings of harder plastic / with stronger springs will.
tomjasz
1 GW
The phase wires with in that earliest BBSHD version were the colored Anderson's and a LOT of them did as you wrote, short out. The matching blue, green, and yellow from Grin were ALMOST a color match. I'm convinced Bafang used copy cats. The company and mid motors I love and hate. And just finished another build with. I'm with improperly installed and likely not actually made by Anderson.
(whoever that is?)
I'm curious, were the Anderson connectors used on phase wires for a very brief period?
On what system? If you mean the bafang middrive stuff, you'd know better than I.
If you mean in general, they were used for phase wire connections by quite a few controller makers and/or sellers for years, based on forum posts and pictures over the years, especially before the various waterproof connectors became popular.
If you mean "whoever Anderson" is, they are the originators of the Powerpole connectors (and other types of connectors); easily found on the web.
Their site has datasheets for the various contacts, housings, and accessories with specifications, dimensions, etc., that can be used to determine suitability for an application, and then which contact and housing and accessory would be appropriate.
tomjasz
1 GW
gotcha! but how best to know we’re getting the real deal anderson? i’ve searched but failed to sort how to know the real from clones. other than subtle color differences and sound. but which is the real deal. compared to you i don’t know shit from shinola. my experience is limited to BBSxx, Mac, and grin stuff, some oem 9c, mxus, and rudimentary battery building and repair. what little i had has been stolen by mini strokes. TIAs suck.
i have a dozen Powerwerx 30A and 20 or so aliexpress 30A and the powerwerx SNAP together. The aliexpress (forgot who) kinda thud. subtle but clearly different
If you check with Anderson's reps, they should be able to tell you where for sure that you'll get the real deal.
Powerwerx probably are genuine.
Mouser, Digikey, Farnell, etc probably have genuine stuff.
Any that have to be shipped from China/etc are probably not genuine.
Stuff on ebay and amazon could be; you could check with anderson to be sure whoever you're going to buy from is actually a dealer; they probably keep track of that stuff.
There are at least two versions of each size PP/SB contact, with different retention forces, so one is easier to pull apart than the other, but contact force is the same as that is determined by the spring in the housing itself (which is part of where the differences lie in the clone housings), and those are all the same strength in the genuine housings to create consistent contact force.
My SBxx and PP75 series housings and contacts mostly come from scrapped used equipment like server UPSs and powerchairs, and those that are not actually anderson have their brand names molded into them. Some of my PP45 sized housings/contacts came from scrapped controllers, some I bought from Grin some years back. I've bought new contacts off Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HB9SF7L for the SB50/PP75 series housings, and they appear functionally identical to the ones I already have.
But I don't use many 45 sized ones mostly because even if genuine, they don't have strong enough springs in the housings to tolerate twisting or pulling/etc on larger-gauge cabling without causing contact issues, but the much larger PP75 and SB50 and larger sizes don't have a problem with this in any of my applications so far. And it's much harder to plug/unplug the larger versions, making it far less likely to have a partial connection with high resistance from an error in connecting them (you kind of know if you got it all the way in or if it's unplugged). Almost everythign I use now is SB50, with a few PP75s.
I have a few PP75-equivalents that are clones of a different contact design that is definitely worse than even the clone PP75s I've had; the housing is similar externally in function but not the same in form, and they are not very good. They came from some powerchair stuff.
For my "permanent" connections that only need to be disconnected for major repairs or maintenance, I use bolt-on connections with ring terminals, to get an even better connection.
For small signal stuff I use various connector types where appropriate, and for things that would only be disconnected on repairs and major maintenance, I often just splice the wiring directly together, or run them directly from inside one device to inside the next.
Powerwerx probably are genuine.
Mouser, Digikey, Farnell, etc probably have genuine stuff.
Any that have to be shipped from China/etc are probably not genuine.
Stuff on ebay and amazon could be; you could check with anderson to be sure whoever you're going to buy from is actually a dealer; they probably keep track of that stuff.
There are at least two versions of each size PP/SB contact, with different retention forces, so one is easier to pull apart than the other, but contact force is the same as that is determined by the spring in the housing itself (which is part of where the differences lie in the clone housings), and those are all the same strength in the genuine housings to create consistent contact force.
My SBxx and PP75 series housings and contacts mostly come from scrapped used equipment like server UPSs and powerchairs, and those that are not actually anderson have their brand names molded into them. Some of my PP45 sized housings/contacts came from scrapped controllers, some I bought from Grin some years back. I've bought new contacts off Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HB9SF7L for the SB50/PP75 series housings, and they appear functionally identical to the ones I already have.
But I don't use many 45 sized ones mostly because even if genuine, they don't have strong enough springs in the housings to tolerate twisting or pulling/etc on larger-gauge cabling without causing contact issues, but the much larger PP75 and SB50 and larger sizes don't have a problem with this in any of my applications so far. And it's much harder to plug/unplug the larger versions, making it far less likely to have a partial connection with high resistance from an error in connecting them (you kind of know if you got it all the way in or if it's unplugged). Almost everythign I use now is SB50, with a few PP75s.
I have a few PP75-equivalents that are clones of a different contact design that is definitely worse than even the clone PP75s I've had; the housing is similar externally in function but not the same in form, and they are not very good. They came from some powerchair stuff.
For my "permanent" connections that only need to be disconnected for major repairs or maintenance, I use bolt-on connections with ring terminals, to get an even better connection.
For small signal stuff I use various connector types where appropriate, and for things that would only be disconnected on repairs and major maintenance, I often just splice the wiring directly together, or run them directly from inside one device to inside the next.
Soooooo I have solved one issue only to find another issue. The new spade connectors WORK with Anderson connectors. I installed a new controller (52v 1000w) with spade connectors and it is giving an error code 10 temperature too high. Is there a fix or is the controller not compatible with the motor? I have seen a few posts about a firmware update, but I have also seen a few posts saying they are incompatible and the only fix is a different controller. If that is the case, I am wondering if such a controller exists that will work.
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