Bladez XTR SE

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tabora

1 mW
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Nov 26, 2023
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Cape Elizabeth, Maine
I was recently given a Bladez XTR SE scooter. When I turned on the switch, the red LED came on, then flashed briefly and went out. I removed the batteries and charged one, but the other one was completely dead. I had another one from a UPS, so I charged it and swapped it in. I'm getting 26+V from the pack, so I connected it back up. However, I noticed that the red wire is no longer connected to the controller and is just hanging. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the controller? I figured I should confirm all the connections before proceeding...
 
amberwolf said:
Which red wire? (there are usually several)
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The one that comes from the T connector for the battery. I assume it connects to a circuit breaker. There are two empty blades there on what I assume is the circuit breaker relay.

Here, I removed the board from the scooter... The red wire from the circuit board is connected to NO, and I would guess that the one from the battery would go to COM, leaving NC empty? My assumptions are that these are the typical Common, Normally Open, Normally Closed relay connections. There doesn't seem to be a fuse or circuit breaker anywhere.

While I'm waiting, I'm going to clean up the controller with electronics cleaner.

IMG_20231126_152334.jpg
 
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A circuit breaker has to be between the source and the load, usually between the battery and the controller.

Certain switches look like breakers, and may have multiple connections. Breakers should only have two connections.

If there is a T connector on the battery (positive? negative? middle? it's necessary to be exact and specific with wiring info), and it is SLA, if it is from the positive main battery wire it is almost certainly going to be charger positive input on one branch, controller positive input on the other branch.

If there is a circuit breaker on that wire, it almost certainly will be between the battery positive and the controller positive.

I haven't seen a wiring diagram for these, so your best bet is to start drawing out the wiring yourself, and post what you find here. Include anything that isn't connected or has open pins or contacts that are not presently used.
 
Sorry, those weren't there when I was typing that post.

If there's no wire to COM on the relay, then nothing will be passed thru the relay from wherever it comes from to wherever it goes. So battery connecting there is probably correct.

NO sounds correct, since that would be "off" when the relay is not on, so the relay is used to connect the two points together.
 
tabora said:
I was recently given a Bladez XTR SE scooter. When I turned on the switch, the red LED came on, then flashed briefly and went out. I removed the batteries and charged one, but the other one was completely dead. I had another one from a UPS, so I charged it and swapped it in. I'm getting 26+V from the pack, so I connected it back up. However, I noticed that the red wire is no longer connected to the controller and is just hanging. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the controller? I figured I should confirm all the connections before proceeding...
Click to expand...
Heyyy, what a coincidence, I recently got the same scooter! Surprised to see someone from Maine has one, it’s a company from Florida and most buyers were from the area.

The red light flashing can indicate incorrect wiring to the relay, I had the same problem too (I think I messed it up at first), I just kept changing the wires until it worked, there’s only a few possible combinations of red wires on the three pins; I can send a picture of my wiring in few hours. It will also give a flashing red light if the throttle is depressed when turning on, or if the motor thermometer is disconnected/damaged.

Just a heads up, the scooter uses a TON of current and the original motor seems kinda crap in my experience. Mine burned out, and I suspect the wires used in the coil were too thin for the current drawn, causing them to melt insulation and create a short. A UPS battery will not work well in the scooter as those are meant for lower current, and will degrade very quickly. I replaced my batteries with equivalent spec lead acid batteries, and the range is now a quarter of what it was after 10 cycles or so. It should really be converted to lithium, but it’s hard to find drop in lithium batteries that fit and can provide the 25 amps continuous the scooter needs.

The company BladeZ is still in business, however I believe they’re only selling old stock now. All parts are really expensive and you can only order over the phone. Support from the company is poor and once again is only possible over the phone. Their email and online help isn’t in service from my experience.
If you end up needing a part in the future, I can help you find parts that will work for cheaper.

Here’s a link to my thread on the scooter: My ~12 year old Electric Scooter Project - BladeZ XTR SE
 
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tabora said:
It's actually the same battery. Larger UPSs use the same 12V 12Ah SLA batteries. I even have some that are 18Ah.

Thanks!
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I see, I’m used to seeing only 7ah or less batteries in a UPS. In that case I’d still try to find a data table providing discharge current and lifespan of your battery to be safe. I’m interested to see how the range is on a stock XTR SE with batteries that I assume aren’t the cheapest ones on Amazon. As you’ve probably noticed, an 18ah battery won’t fit, but it would be much better suited for the scooter.
 
FWIW, the size / capacity of the battery doesn't determine it's uses / capabilities, it's design does.

With SLA there are various physical technologies, such as AGM, etc, that determine how the plates and electrolytes are layered and built. Some use designs that don't handle high current well, but do work better with a constant floating charging source (like many UPSes work) vs frequent cycling and deep discharge, while others handle high current better, and can handle the cycling and deep discharge better.

Unfortunatley the average sellers don't usually have much idea what they have, and may buy and sell just by capacity and physical size, just trying to maximize profit so they may not always send the same type even though the ad doesn't change. (this happens with a lot of products, and it's even worse on Amazon because of the way Amazon's website and warehouses work).

So the only certain way to know what a particular battery you have in your hands is really capable of (besides harsh testing) is to look up the manufacturer's datasheet (for those that publish one, if there isn't one it's safe to assume it's the cheapest possible thing they could make that could barely do the thing it says on the outside).

From larger battery retailers whose business is exclusively this kind of thing, you have a better chance of getting the specific type you are looking to buy...but they will almost certainly cost more there.
 
amberwolf said:
So the only certain way to know what a particular battery you have in your hands is really capable of (besides harsh testing) is to look up the manufacturer's datasheet (for those that publish one
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Yes, all that information is available for my current 12V12Ah batteries and if you follow that link to the 12V15Ah batteries, you'll see that the data sheets are posted for them as well. The Mighty Max batteries are AGM.
 
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Well, I cleaned the controller up thoroughly and reassembled everything. With the battery lead connected to COM, I'm getting 26.4V at the NC terminal, but only 5.5V at the NO terminal, regardless of the On/Off switch position. Without a wiring diagram, it's hard to guess where to go next... Should I assume that the controller is toast? Maybe I'll investigate the On/Off switch further... It's too bad, because the rest of the scooter is in great condition.
 

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tabora said:
Well, I cleaned the controller up thoroughly and reassembled everything. With the battery lead connected to COM, I'm getting 26.4V at the NC terminal, but only 5.5V at the NO terminal, regardless of the On/Off switch position. Without a wiring diagram, it's hard to guess where to go next...
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Is the relay engaged? (it will click when the control system turns it on. If the coil terminals are accessible (probably not) then you can measure voltage there to find out if the relay is even being turned on. There should be a voltage difference from one side of the coil to the other while it's on, from current flwo thru it)

If it isn't engaged and has no power to the coil then whatever control signal is supposed to turn it on isnt' working. Some systems use the brake for this, so if it's engaged it disconnects the relay to prevent motor operation. Some use a switch inside the throttle itself so if it's at "off" position it turns off the relay.

The relay may control B+ to the controller itself, or it may only control B+ to the motor (while the FETs in the controller switch the ground of the motor).
 
tabora said:
Well, I cleaned the controller up thoroughly and reassembled everything. With the battery lead connected to COM, I'm getting 26.4V at the NC terminal, but only 5.5V at the NO terminal, regardless of the On/Off switch position. Without a wiring diagram, it's hard to guess where to go next... Should I assume that the controller is toast? Maybe I'll investigate the On/Off switch further... It's too bad, because the rest of the scooter is in great condition.
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Sorry, forgot to take the picture earlier. Hope this helps!
A9A6F176-FC6E-4DC6-AC0A-DDC30E4B14C0.jpeg5E8293CE-6B8C-4952-9546-50A29E045614.jpeg
 
From what you’ve said, the wiring seems correct so far. It’s normal for a bit of voltage to be present even when the switch is off, mine does it too. The voltage you’re seeing isn’t any real concern, it’s a very very weak current that should disappear when the motor is connected to it
 
jetpackjbd said:
Sorry, forgot to take the picture earlier. Hope this helps!
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Thanks for the pictures! It looks like the three-pin connectors are in the opposite places on mine, but otherwise the same... I'm guessing that those are the throttle and brake?

Now if I can just figure out why the relay is not actuating...
 

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tabora said:
Thanks for the pictures! It looks like the three-pin connectors are in the opposite places on mine, but otherwise the same... I'm guessing that those are the throttle and brake?

Now if I can just figure out why the relay is not actuating...
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The three pin orange yellow green connector is throttle, brake is the two pin in the upper right corner (red and white I think?).

It looks like the orange yellow green throttle plug is in the place of the other 3 pin connector (I forget what that does), which might be your issue. I think I wired that wrong too at one point
 
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tabora said:
I found this troubleshooting document, so my next step will be to test each component that I can...
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You can try, their document isn’t super helpful for user-errors unfortunately although it does help label some of the wires. Still, try it out and let us know.
What is the scooter doing now when you go to turn I on? Is it still flashing red, doing nothing, constant red, green with no motor movement?
 
It's doing nothing. There's been no sign of life since the first time I turned it on, when the red LED illuminated briefly, flashed a few times and then faded out. I attributed that to the state of the one dead battery, since replaced.
 
tabora said:
It's doing nothing. There's been no sign of life since the first time I turned it on, when the red LED illuminated briefly, flashed a few times and then faded out. I attributed that to the state of the one dead battery, since replaced.
Click to expand...
Hmm, that seems like a bad sign but I believe mine did that for a bit at first before randomly working again. Check the breaker, which should be wired between the two batteries in series. If you have no luck after a while of unplugging, checking, and rewiring, consider the oven method. Or a heat gun.
 
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