Building a wheel with hub motor

[Ellou]

So I took a trip to a bike shop I had a decent experience with in the past. (Just a wheel true but they seemed nice) my new hub motor had a couple loose spokes that where causing a creaking under load. I walked in and the guy up front looked at the wheel and I already knew what popped in his head. I asked if they could true it and he said go ahead and ask the guys in the back. Guys in the back said sure but as soon as I asked about building a wheel they showed me the sign that said we don't work on motorized bikes. He said that's there policy. Fair enough I liked that he still would true the wheel but he made it seem extremely difficult to build a wheel and find 12g spokes and figure out the right length. He mad it seem as though I will never be able to get a new wheel built when I'm ready to upgrade.

Is this true? Is it hard to get 12g spokes and find the right lenght?

Is it that hard to build a wheel? I've watched a few YouTube video that seem to be fairly easy.

Where do I find 12g spokes and size for a rim?

Do all bike shops give a snobby vibe if you bring in something they don't sell. Not saying they were being jerks or anything. The guy up front made it seem like a single speed crank was an extremely foreign thing to do. He said a 45 or 48 chaining wasn't possible and most are more like 35. The whole time he just seemed short like he really didn't want to answer my questions.

 

[nutnspecial]

I assume that's pretty normal behavior. They don't understand all the specifics, and it's just a knee-jerk reaction to protect their interests.
Not all shops will act like that, but you'll find many that see no value in expanding their trade, and the attitude/lack of knowledge will show. Black and white it mostly comes down to money/time (extra training time not worth the return) in this case, but I get peeved when they don't voice that. /rant over

I have only a bit of experience with wheel building, but did get the calculations right (ebikes.ca) and did my first build and true with no special stands or gauges. The wheel has been holding up better than the xt sunryhno one that I ran before. A few utube vids made my build smooth as hell.

Mine is bike rim and spokes (13 or 14), and I recut and threaded the spokes with a hozan threader, so I can't offer too much on the heavier gauges, although I know JRH (Holmes) should offer all the stuff you want to build your own. His website should be easy to find in this search. https://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=endless-sphere.com&q=john%20holmes&gws_rd=ssl

 

[MadRhino]

It is not hard to find spokes, easy to cut them to length and roll the threading, and not so hard to repeat the lacing pattern without mistakes.
What is hard is to lace a wheel with equal tension and proper dishing, even harder if you plan to ride it high power in the dirt. Build your own, it is well worth buying the tools and learn. For the first few, you can have the tech at the bike shop finishing your ready built wheel while you watch and learn.

 

[d8veh]

What motor is it? Do you need 12g spokes?

 

[Ellou]

I believe it's the generic yescuma. They really don't have markings on them. The shop said they appeared to be 12g.

I was asking these questions because when I decide to upgrade my bike to something that fits me better I think I'll need to build up a different size wheel. Or when this wheel decides to fail.

 

[Sunder]

I thought your location said Tempe, AU, and I was about to send you down to 99 bikes.

I have had zero problems getting any wheels trued or built, but when I got one built with a MAC 8T and 12G spokes, after he finished it, he said next time he'd have to charge an extra 2 hours because the weight and the spoke thickness slowed him down.

 

[LewTwo]

Roger Munson sells a good book on wheel building (as a PDF).
You might want to take a look at his web site: http://www.wheelpro.co.uk

 

[Drunkskunk]

Wheel building is easier than it sounds, but it takes a bit to develop the skill. You can develop most of that skill by learning how to true a wheel. And for that, it might be best to start with a wheel you don't need. Start by loosening all the spokes, then true it until it runs smooth and straight. then loosen them and do it again.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/truing.html

12g spokes are more of a problem than they are worth. They are simply too thick to do their job, and that's why you ended up with some of them coming lose. Spokes are basically a type of spring that supports the wheel, and 12g spokes are too thick to be stretched tight enough. The thickest spoke that should be used on a bike is 14g. 14g are used for things like extreme DH bikes taking 20 foot drops off cliffs, and pedicabs, hauling around a bunch of fat tourists through potholed city streets.

Ebike hubs are often drilled with large holes, so a hybrid spoke called a single butted spoke, with a 13g elbow and eyelet and a 14g shaft can be used. Those are listed as 13/14g. JRH, a member here, is a good source for those. Holmes Hobbies

 

[2old]

Another good source for spokes from my experience is Dan's Comp, a BMX seeming shop online, but good pricing on spokes (need to phone them though). Also agree with those that say wheel building is a worthwhile skill to learn and not difficult with a truing stand (mine is so cheap that it was given to me, but works well).

 

[amberwolf]

So I took a trip to a bike shop I had a decent experience with in the past.

Bike Barn?

Is this true? Is it hard to get 12g spokes and find the right lenght?

Very easy, but I would go with regular 13/14 butted spokes; they'll work better with bike rims and stay true longer, especially since you're probably doing street riding rather than rough offroad stuff.

I would order them from places like Grin Tech (ebikes.ca); last ones I ordered were something like $35-ish for a wheel's worth of spokes, nipples, and shipping, IIRC. Presently they are being heavily abused on the SB Cruiser; there are also teh same type of spokes that've lasted thru similar abuse for even longer on CrazyBike2's rear wheel. (build thread links in my signature).

Is it that hard to build a wheel? I've watched a few YouTube video that seem to be fairly easy.

It's pretty easy. There are several threads about it, probably linked in the sticky threads in one or more of the subforums. Possibly a wiki entry too. Also easy enough to find in the search, using terms like "wheel building", "wheel lacing", etc.

First thing I'd do is get an old wheel you don't need out of the closet, and take pictures of it, video yourself unlacing it, then use the same parts to relace it, and true it. Use your pics and video as reference to relace it. Do it again if you aren't confident in your work, until you are.

When you are confident in using those old parts to build a wheel, do the same thing with your existing wheel, and you'll only need to do it once.

Where do I find 12g spokes and size for a rim?

You can use the calculator on the http://ebikes.ca pages; it tells you how to find the numbers you need for your particular rim and hub, to get the right spoke lengths out of the calculator.

Do all bike shops give a snobby vibe if you bring in something they don't sell.

Many do. Depends on the people. Used to be a great place for custom bikes (build-a-bike) at 43rd & Bethany Home here on the west side, but they were bought out, and the people that were so good and friendly and helpful disappeared, replaced with people that were much more interested in how much they could charge you for a part than anything else (and they stopped selling any used parts at all, which had been my main reason for going there--it's where I got quite a few parts, including frames, that became major parts of my bikes). Now they don't even exist at that location at all, though I gather they've got locations in two more "uppity" areas of town that have mostly people that wouldn't wanna build anything themselves anyway. :/

He said a 45 or 48 chaining wasn't possible and most are more like 35.

[/quote]
Dunno about single-speed, but 48 is a really common chainring size for 3-ring cranks. Most likely if you can't find a ring in that size for singlespeed cranks, you could make or buy an adapter to use a typical 48.

44 is another common size for 3-ring cranks.


If you really think you'll have trouble building the wheel, then if you get the parts for it, you can bring them over here and I'll show you the basics on building the wheel, and truing it, using your bike as the "truing stand" (or some other frame; I don't have a truing stand but just do it on an upside-down frame).

 

[Ellou]

You guys are amazing. Thanks for all of the suggestions and help.

I have the old rear wheel from my v2100 that is my first build to work on. I have a truing tool on the way so I will definitely get some practice in before I decide to build a wheel.There is also a bike coop close to me that while I feel like they pay more attention to the girls has all the tools I would need and truing stands. They also didnt seem to thrilled about the hub motor on the back wheel.

Amberwolf I may take you up on that offer when the time comes. I would rather have someone checking my work at least the first time. The shop was Dominics 2 wheelers in tempe. When I went to pick it they where really friendly and told me exactly what he had to tighten and how much, he also used the tensioner to verify everything was good. I actually felt bad I didnt have any cash to tip the guy but my front wheel needs to be trued as well so Ill probably go back and take care of him.

 

[vwhammer]

Yeah you can't be too hard on the local bike shops.
They just do not work with this type of thing too much (well most don't)
I recently took my wheels and hub motors to my local bike shop and they were concerned about the size of the spoke holes and guessed that they would need 10 or 12 gauge spokes.
However, after asking a few questions on here I decided on some 13/14g single butted spokes.
I entered the info on the ebikes.ca spoke calculator and eventually ordered the spokes from them.

I am in the middle of lacing my front wheel as we speak.

I did the rear in a single cross pattern which was super easy once I sorted out how to go about it.
The front is a 2 cross pattern and took a little more doing to sort out but now I am almost finished.

I will likely just lace them and snug them up and take them to the bike shop for truing and dishing.

This saves a ton of money.
It was going to cost $250 to have both wheels built at the shop (including spokes @$2.50 USD per spoke)
Now I will be surprised if I have $140 in process.

I saved $80 on the spokes alone.

I also didn't want to mess with it but I am glad I did.
Its just another thing that's nice to be able to do yourself.

 

[nutnspecial]

Cool Ellou!
Yeah Hammer!

I thought building/truing my wheel would be a nightmare, but it went like cake, and has been holding true excellent!
As Amberwolf mentioned, just using the bike as a stand works excellent, and dishing is merely just making one side a bit tighter to center the wheel on the bike. Go in increments, and slowly get and maintain true and dish as you bring the tension up. It was fun too imo.

 

[Ellou]

Just following up. I took my front wheel that was ridiculously out of true and wobbly (I didn't realize how bad until I got the rear done) to the bike coop to use there equipment. The wheel basically waved.lol The guy showed me what to do and in 15 min came back over. I asked him what next. He looked at it a couple times and adjusted the stand and said " nothing it's great" I was wondering if he was just being nice but when I put it on the bike it was so smooth. My Craigslist purchased Walmart bike rode like a $3000 performance road bike. I can dream.lol Really it was great and removed some of the anxiety of building a wheel. Thanks again for all your input. I'll report back when I'm ready to build.