Building an Ebike but need help

The bike shop held it overnight for the truing so I'll report back on the correct distances between both front and rear tomorrow.

Just researching a little more and found this... evidently the golden motor's are 85mm wide which would fit (although does this count washers on either side)?

For $895 with shipping I would get a
*26" front wheel
*36 volt 750 watt motor
*cruise controller
*twist throttle
*36volt 16 aH battery plus charger plus rack (which looks really similar to the ebike-kit one...)

This sounds good, however, how is the QC recently from golden motors? I've read some negative things in the past, however, also read about successful conversions which are holding up fine. I could always cover the front wheel with a shopping bag to increase water resistance :p
 
That's a pinched tube fork. Strong as hell, and I wouldn't hesitate to put a car jack on it and bend it out 30 mm, 10 won't faze it at all. So go for it. No Quick release front wheel means you will have not issues with poor fitting oversize washers. Tighten the nuts good and ride for thousands of miles. No need for torque arms at all with good steel and tight nuts.

Don't take the bike shop too seriously, they prob laugh as soon as you walk out the door with the huffy anyway. What? no carbon, no $2500 price tag? How come he doesn't buy a $200 bike from us priced at only $350? They just about throw holy water around and shout HERETIC ! when I come around with my E bike. Call an exorcist, the ebiker had contaminated our premises.

Nuttin wrong with that huffy for an ebike to get a student around town with less sweat and even less money. Sure a nice bike is nice, but that huffy will get the job done fine.
 
I think you summed it up perfect :)

The bike shop was so glad I bought a comfortable seat from them the other day (...money), however, they issue dire warnings about using hub motors on my old frame. The guy there even suggested a fork which wasn't steel as a replacement... I guess I'll only be using the shop if I can't do something myself from now on :)

When I receive the bike back tomorrow I will check the spacing one more time and if everything looks good start figuring out where I seriously want to order from. I'm not sure how prices fluctuate as it gets colder, however, I'm fairly sure soon is a good time to buy with the summer behind us.

Working out the latest numbers and if I have to around 1k -$1100 tops can be devoted to the project (yay Ebay coming through for me lol). Right now I have the following kits in mind... any advice is good advice from all of you who have already been through this.

Option 1: Ebike-kit.com

$986.00 + ?? shipping- 36volt 10aH metal battery pack, 3.5amp charger, split-twist throttle, Anderson connectors, 500watt brushless front motor, etc http://www.e-bikekit.com


Option 2: Golden Motors

$895 shipped - 36 volt 750 watt, cruise controller, twist throttle, 36volt 16aH battery pack plus charger and rack, etc http://www.goldenmotor.com

Option 3: ebikes.ca

$435 + $295 + 60 shipping 8aH Ni-Cad pack with charger and bag 26 inch front Nine Continent Kit (2807 hub, 20A Infineon Controller, right half-twist, Cycle Analyst, etc.)

Option 4: ??? eBay... (not really looking forward to going through eBay... would rather have the support of business)


Golden Motors is the cheapest for what you get (only $700 for the parts, almost $200 for air shipping), however, is their quality at the same level as other manufacturers? I really like the idea of the battery in a metal box, sounds sturdy and reliable.

-Derek :)

Edit: just b/c I could spend 1-1.1k on this project, obviously if I can get the same parts for $700 or $800 then I'm all for it. :)
 
DerekG said:
The bike shop held it overnight for the truing so I'll report back on the correct distances between both front and rear tomorrow.

Just researching a little more and found this... evidently the golden motor's are 85mm wide which would fit (although does this count washers on either side)?
Click to expand...

All of the front motor kits out there are made for the standard 100mm fork spacing. The body of the GM motor is 85mm wide but if you look closely you'll see two short vertical lines indicating the amount the shoulder of the axle protrudes. They don't have this dimensioned but you can figure about 5mm each side, at least that is what it is on my 9C motor. That brings it up to 95+mm then add a 2mm inside washer on each side which brings it up to about 100mm.

http://www.goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/hubmotor-FRONT_WHEEL.pdf

You can see what I mean better on the 9C drawing here (shows it as 4mm);

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/diagrams/M2800F.pdf

-R
 
As for bending forks and structural safety, I totally forgot that on the CrazyBike itself, I'd used an old white "herculite" (whatever that is) steel fork off a Murray "Biotech", bent several *inches* wider using the car jack, as part of the main structural frame, for about half of 500 miles before reshaped it again removing the curved part and stem remnant, and the remainder still the rest of the 500 till I did my "bike diet" on it and removed them completely:

Crazybike1; it's the white frame bit from the rear seatpost curving down to the forward rear dropouts. It's spread about 1/2" wider than standard rear dropouts would be, bolts to outside of those dropouts:
FullBikeLongRearBrace.JPG
Crazybike2; same place
View attachment 3
Spread several inches further out to make space for the motor and chainlines:
8PowerChairMotorIntegrated1.JPG
Just before I cut the top "U" off to clear the new seat and stiffen the frame:
3RearToFrontInterconnectBeforeAlterationTOP.JPG
Just after:
5RearToFrontInterconnectAfterAlterationTOP.JPG

I think it's safe to say it'd probably hold up fine if you widen it just a little bit like you'll need to. :)


As for which kit to go for...well, the GM kit has a bigger capacity battery, which not only means it can give longer range, but *probably* means it can deliver higher currents for a longer time without invoking Peukert as much (even with non-lead batteries it still matters some). Plus, it has a bigger motor, and is cheaper.

However, it is directly from China, meaning any warranty stuff you have to deal with if ever something happens is going to be shipping it overseas and back, costly and time delays, probably.

Plus all that money goes directly to China, instead of supporting dealers closer to you, who could probably help with the warranty issues cheaper and faster, and might even help with non-warranty stuff for a reasonable price (which will probably not even be worth doing at all with direct-to-China distances involved).

Sure, the stuff by the dealers is probably the same stuff as the China sellers, even is most certainly made by them. But it doesn't mean it's a better deal just to get it cheaper, depending on the kind of after-service you need. ;)
 
Who you buy from makes a world of difference. Even small problems like not quite understanding how the washers go or something are much easier with a vendor that has exemplary customer service, and is in the US if something like a charger needs to be shipped.

Here's my list of vendors, in no particular order.

Ebike kit tm - 9 c

Ebikes. ca------clyte, 9c, ezee

High Tech Bikes---aotema, bionx

Amped bikes---- used to sell 9c, introducing a gearmotor now

World Wide Electricbikes--- fusin gearmotors.

Holmes hobby----Bafang gearmotors, Pumas?

Cycle 9----- BMC gearmotors.

But even better could be to buy from one of us, by lurking on the for sale section. Check it twice a day, good deals may only last minuites, especially when Ebike Kit tm runs an ES special to clean out the warehouse. If you are not in a hurry, I may be selling a 36v fusin gearmotor soon. You can save a bundle buying used from the more reputable ones of us.
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone... without you i would have probably ended up with a duct tape battery pack and a motor direct from china.

Instead, I decided to go with the ebikekit from Jason, as he was very helpful and provided an excellent customer experience. Though I do not anticipate any problems during the install, I'm sure he will right there to assist me should I have any concerns. This is the level of customer interaction we as customers love and primarily why I ordered from him... so thumbs up to you Jason :)

I also went with this kit for a number of technical reasons...

*Replacement parts only a few miles away - This is huge for me because even something as simple as a replacement spoke could take forever if sent from China/ cost much more in shipping

*Reputation - Reading the many posts about how much everyone respects Jason got me interested in a kit I may have otherwise passed up. I was originally looking for a 750 watt kit or so, however, even 20 amps (his kit maxes at around 25) at 35 volts is 720 watts... and these are real watts, not inflated ones.

*The battery pack is exactly what a high quality one should be... neat, functional, study and not filled with duct tape (srry Ping, you make good batteries too, however, I need something to carry into class and this is a much better method) plus free advertising for the kit when ppl ask me about the pack :p I can't believe a week or so ago I was going to buy the pack in the same box but with lower quality cells from China. The 14 pages or so of comparison last night confirmed the fact that although Jason's pack is more expensive, you get what you pay for.

*This setup is not very heavy and doesn't mind the rain. I pedal as far as I need fine by myself right now so I don't need 5000 watts of assist. If I want a "thrill" ride I jump in my friends jeep :p I wanted something that helped both with the length of the rides I sometimes do and the slopes which occasionally are an issue if I don't want to walk into class sweating.

I'm really excited about the kit and I hope some of the campus will be after I'm done too. I understand not a lot of people will want to shell out 1k for an electric assist, however, I'm sure out of 40k people there will be at least a few who will be excited. I told my EE friends about the cycle analyst and they are excited (at my expense :p) to look it over and learn how it does its job.

Anyways, just wanted to thank everyone for their input into the build and for teaching me so much about the E-bike. Of course, my partial differential grade may have been higher ... but now I know what a torque arm is and how to install one lol
 
Good choice DerekG,

I own the ebikekit motor and controller and love it. You are right about Jason's commitment to customer service and great prices. He's a great promotor of ebikes.

Congrats,
Ambrose
(no affiliation with ebikekit.com, just a happy customer)
 
Great choice. I've got similar forks on mine. I had to spread them about 10 mm also. Used a small floor jack w no problem. Also I used a dremel to widen and smooth out the bottom of the slot in my forks till the motor slipped all the way in and bottomed out nicely. Take your time and make it a nice fit and you won't have any problems. if you go to my link it will show a close shot of mine. And no I haven't clamped my torque arms :oops: The nuts have not moved in 200 mi. so far.
 
Jason being near you definitely makes the decision easy. Happy riding.
 
Jason,

You just made my day! I'm sending the picture to you ASAP! :)

Ambrose
 
just cover your bike with a plastic sheet. that will be enough to keep it dry
 
That, I belive, is the one I couldn't remember the name of. For bmc. I'll go edit now.
 
Just an update on everything...

Jason has been really good about letting me know when the order shipped and I actually already received the battery pack b/c that was shipped separate

Impressions on the pack so far...

*Aluminum case feels durable enough... better than duct tape.

*Handle feels study although one screw always has a tenancy to loosen up as you open and close the handle a few times. I don't really anticipate this being a problem, however, will have to keep my eye on it.

*Really like the key system although durability has yet to be tested

*The warranty sticker "Do not Remove" was dried out and fell off when I first handled the unit lol. I'm not sure why that was, however, it was humorous and I've saved it just in case.

*The negative terminal was bent during the factory install so that I couldn't even test voltage initially :-( At first I thought I didn't have the key set to the right setting, however, I looked into the output connector with a flashlight and noticed the negative female receiving terminal totally bent out of shape and pushed back in the connector (Because it was bent it looked like they tried to test it in the factory and managed to push it all the way out of the plastic casing :-( ) . I'm not sure if this was a factory problem or a shipping problem, however, it was disappointing (though no fault of Jason's obviously). I remedied it with a pair of pliers not wanting to have to wait for a replacement (plus the cost of shipping a perfectly good pack back for a $.05 part) and everything is fine now. The battery checks out at a solid 39.9 volts open which is good.

In case that explanation didn't make any sense... The terminals are supposed to look like a II where the metal on both sides of the female connector grabs the male, however, mine looked like a K where the two sides where bent out of shape and pushed back in the housing so far they almost dropped out the back.

So yea... rest of the parts come on Monday so I'll let you know how everything looks then.

** Please note that my reviews of a product may come across as being overly negative, however, I believe being critical with a product is the best approach, as it gives perspective buyers a full understanding into the product they are considering. I could have just said the pack looks great, feels study, 5 minutes to fix a small factory defect and your ready to go :p
 
Just another update....

Everything else arrived yesterday and I spent a good portion of the afternoon and evening making sure it went on ok.

EBikeKit provided great customer interaction, answering what I would consider "noobish" questions with professionalism. I already took the bike 10 miles last night and used just over 3 ah with a little pedal assist on the starts and up hills.


However, I did have one question I figured I should ask here before I bother EBikeKit again :)

--After I used 3.3ah of my pack I figured charging overnight would be a good idea.(It's the 10aH 36 volt prismatic one) When I got back my open terminal voltage read around 39.3 or 39.4 I have the 3.5amp 36 volt charger and after a night of charging the light turned green, however, the voltage is only 39.4-39.5 still. Also, in order to get the charger to turn orange I had to unplug it from the wall then replug it in with the battery attached. Do I have a defective charger or? I don't want to damage my pack by discharging it too low one of the first few times and will have to put the bike aside until a new charger show up if that's the case :-(
 
Your battery hot off the charger should read close to 44V (it'll decline to ~42V by next day). Check the open circuit voltage of your charger to see if it's around 44V. Check the battery voltage to see if you get the same reading on the output connector as on the charge connector. If everything checks out so far connect the charger to the battery charge port and check the voltage on the battery output connector with your voltmeter, it should start to rise.



-R
 
JasonEBK said:
Make sure the key is in "ON" position when checking :wink:
Click to expand...
lol yea... the first time I went to connect everything I forgot about the key and spent a minuite or two figuring out what was wrong :)

Anyways, long story short (charger wasn't working), I got the charger working and now the pack charges fine (one bad solder joint on the PCB). I'm glad the story has a happy ending b/c I really don't want to get off this bike once I'm on :p

I made sure to check the nuts and torque arm again just to make sure nothing shifted, however, everything is locked in good and tight.

I just rebuilt my brakes with new pads b/c the old ones were screeching really bad.

I live on the forth floor of a building with no elevator and I don't feel safe leaving it outside yet... all the more reason to keep going to the gym lol

To wrap up my busy day, I met an older gentleman who talked for around an hour about how much he hopes to purchase an ebike in the future. I showed him how everything worked and showed pedaling vs motor vs both... it was fun :)
 
Derek,

Congratz on an excellent investment! I am glad to see you resolved the BMS issue, my LiFePo4 pack runs to 43.x when charged fully just for reference.

Regards,
Mike
 
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