Cadence sensor wiring on headless throttle plus pedal drive of grin Baserunner v5 z9

[nickceouk]

So far I have a rear hub wired to a Baserunner v5 z9 headless (no cycle analyst).
The thumb throttle and ebrake are working and behave as expected.

The bike has a 3 wire cadence sensor and I have connected the 12v(sometimes shown as 5v) of the BR Pas cable to the red wire of the cadence sensor, the black cadence wire to Gnd of PAS BR cable and green cadence sensor wire to PAS 1 pin on the BR Pas cable.

I tried pedaling the bike upsidedown and it's not triggering the pedal assist.

In the Phaserunner windows software, the pas is lit solid green when not pedaling but starts to turn off and on if pedaling at modest rates.
Also the cadence sensor on the bike has a led at the base of the pedals. This led blinks green about 12 times per pedal revolution.

On the software I have exposed the hidden by default PAS Setup tab(File->Advanced->Show Pas tab.

On that tab I then changed Pedal speed sensor pulses per revolution to what I counted as 12 blinks. Is this how this is set?

Finally "Cobtrol Command source" was set to "Throttle" which I changed to "Throttle or pedal assist" and pressed saved parameters.

Unfortunately even though the throttle works fine the PAS does not work.

What could be the reason? How do I get it working?

 

[lnanek]

Are you sure it's a 12V sensor? That's more commonly used for torque sensors, not PAS sensors. Grin even sells an adapter to lower the voltage.

PAS sensors differ a lot of other ways too. Some have alternating magnets to help detect reverse pedaling and things like that. Some have two sensors. Only way I've successfully set them up before is with a CycleAnalyst display and the little up/down arrows on the debug screen and lots of setting flipping according to the install guide. In one case I just bought and glued in a magnet ring and sensor from GRIN instead of using the bike's built in one in the bottom bracket.

 

[E-HP]

Are you sure it's a 12V sensor? That's more commonly used for torque sensors, not PAS sensors. Grin even sells an adapter to lower the voltage.

The PAS sensors sold be Grin are modified to accept 5v-12V (the Cycle Analyst provides 10V).

Unfortunately even though the throttle works fine the PAS does not work.

What could be the reason? How do I get it working?

Is this a Grin PAS sensor? Is it mounted on the left side crank?

 

[nickceouk]

Are you sure it's a 12V sensor? That's more commonly used for torque sensors, not PAS sensors. Grin even sells an adapter to lower the voltage.

PAS sensors differ a lot of other ways too. Some have alternating magnets to help detect reverse pedaling and things like that. Some have two sensors. Only way I've successfully set them up before is with a CycleAnalyst display and the little up/down arrows on the debug screen and lots of setting flipping according to the install guide. In one case I just bought and glued in a magnet ring and sensor from GRIN instead of using the bike's built in one in the bottom bracket.

You are right, I am not sure it's 12v sensor.
What I did is I passed the V+ pin of the BR Pas cable to the V+ on the actual sensor(red wire).

Yeah, connecting to CA would seem to be out of reach for since I am setting this one as a headless unit.

I need to check voltages (12v or 5v)to confirm which one it is but also am I able to change this setting from the Phaserunner suite on windows?

I presume the same V+ pin (BR - l Pas cable) is used for torque sensor if present and cadence sensor otherwise which means there has to be a way to toggle voltage depending on usage?

The speed sensor lights up in dashboard so hopefully I can get the OEM sensor working before considering if it's worth going with something like the grin extra Pas sensor route.

Thanks for you input and suggestion

 

[nickceouk]

The PAS sensors sold be Grin are modified to accept 5v-12V (the Cycle Analyst provides 10V).


Is this a Grin PAS sensor? Is it mounted on the left side crank?

It's not the grin Pas sensor unfortunately and is in fact installed by the OEM of Engwe Engine Pro ebike. It has a green led which lights up when I spin the pedals ...12 times per revolution but that does not mean it's been driven with the voltage it expects by BR or its return signal is interpreted correctly by the BR controller...It does light up in the dashboard as PAS(green) and I did set it to "Throttle or PAS" in the hidden PAS setup tab of Phaserunner suite software.

 

[E-HP]

It's not the grin Pas sensor unfortunately and is in fact installed by the OEM of Engwe Engine Pro ebike. It has a green led which lights up when I spin the pedals ...12 times per revolution but that does not mean it's been driven the right voltage or interpreted correctly by the BR controller. It does light up in the dashboard and I did set the Throttle or PAS in the hidden PAS setup tab of Phaserunner suite software.

Does the software suite allow you to set the assist power? Make sure to try spinning the cranks in both directions during your troubleshooting.

 

[nickceouk]

Does the software suite allow you to set the assist power? Make sure to try spinning the cranks in both directions during your troubleshooting.

If it does it's probable in one of the address registers in the developer tab since I did not see such an option in the PAS tab. There is a drop down menu in the PAS tab which lets you select if it's a 1 wire pas, 2 wire pas, torque sensor etc so it could also be that whatever is selected there will then set the corresponding address register after saving. I tried everything that had PAS on it as an option but none triggered the pedal assist when pedaling if that makes sense

 

[E-HP]

If it does it's probable in one of the address registers in the developer tab since I did not see such an option in the PAS tab. There is a drop down menu in the PAS tab which lets you select if it's a 1 wire pas, 2 wire pas, torque sensor etc so it could also be that whatever is selected there will then set the corresponding address register after saving. I tried everything that had PAS on it as an option but none triggered the pedal assist when pedaling if that makes sense

I was wondering if the setting were defaulted to 0W, but sounds like there's not much to work with. Based on the documentation, it's sort of a mystery about how much assist or any other inaccessible/default settings there are. My Grin cadence PAS is two wire, but most generic ones are 1. I'm assuming you tried both.
Are you connecting it through a HIGO? I guess you could try supplying 5V to see if that makes any difference.

 

[nickceouk]

I was wondering if the setting were defaulted to 0W, but sounds like there's not much to work with. Based on the documentation, it's sort of a mystery about how much assist or any other inaccessible/default settings there are. My Grin cadence PAS is two wire, but most generic ones are 1. I'm assuming you tried both.
Are you connecting it through a HIGO? I guess you could try supplying 5V to see if that makes any difference.

Yes, I tried both 1 wire and 2 wire even though only one wire is used on the sensor for the return signal. Sensor led is blinking which reassures me its both working and fine with the 12v its receiving.

Its a question of the settings if they exist for the BR to interpret what it is seeing. I sent an email to Grin but no response so far. Once I read that ASI is the manufacturer of the grin branded controllers I realised that its A) not a great business arrangement and B)why grin might become reluctant over time to take ownership of a product they do not manufacture ...
Not a great way to run a business if you ask me but I just want to cut my loses at this point and get whatever I can for the product I paid.

I have more faith in the open ESC project to deliver a truly community friendly controller - all it takes is someone to make an ebike version and add Bluetooth android/ios app connectivity. Off topic now.

I checked it all again today and found its 12V on the V+ pin. The OEM pas sensor returns 0.24V at rest and ramps up voltage the faster the pedals turns .. I have seen 2-3V at moderately fast speeds. I am referencing these readings to Gnd if referenced to V+ 12V its in the 11V mark obviously.

How does a working PAS sensor such as the Grin behave in PhaseSuite?
What I want to know is in the Dashboard does the PAS 1 sensor blink (green, no green) when the pedals are spinning?
The cadence sensor led in my setup, blinks many more times than what I observe in the dashboard. Maybe 12 vs 2-3. This will allow me to confirm if the BR is interpreting the incoming signal wrong or if this far its working and being registered by the BR as expected.

I have the grin higo on one side and a jst 3 pin both breadboarded and checked for voltage and connection continuity with multimeter.
Supplying 5v is possible although it makes no sense since the controller is pushing 12v...

 

[lnanek]

The controller is designed for torque sensors that take 12V, that's why it doesn't output the typical 5V used for a hall sensor detecting a magnet going by.

Are you sure you don't have a torque sensor, by the way? I would expect the output to be a signal every time a magnet passes the sensor, more frequent signals meaning faster pedaling cadence. You say you are seeing higher voltage on the signal wire instead, when you push harder to spin the pedals faster. Sounds more like a torque sensor.

 

[nickceouk]

The controller is designed for torque sensors that take 12V, that's why it doesn't output the typical 5V used for a hall sensor detecting a magnet going by.

Are you sure you don't have a torque sensor, by the way? I would expect the output to be a signal every time a magnet passes the sensor, more frequent signals meaning faster pedaling cadence. You say you are seeing higher voltage on the signal wire instead, when you push harder to spin the pedals faster. Sounds more like a torque sensor.

Well, I tried setting it as torque even though it wasn't operating as a torque sensor when I had all original OEM electronics. I am 99% confident it is a speed cadence sensor.
It's definitely speed related.
Thank you for helping me with this, I really appreciate it!