Canadian Newbie Starter Build (China or Local?)

[electrocats]

Having spent the last 4 hours glossing over this forum and some other wiki's. I feel like I have a slight grasp on preparing to build my own kit and convert an old MBT bike I own.

But with the Canadian dollar falling, it has become a little difficult to determine what I should buy. I searched around and someone recommended that I fill out this form before asking for advice. So that is what I will do

• Desired max speed on level ground. mph or kph - No preference really, speed is the least important. 20kph works for me.
  Desired max range - Range is important here, Ideally I'd like to be able to travel 30+km on a single charge.
  Preferred bike wheel size. - 26 inch wheels.
  Brake type of motor wheel. - I haven't quite learned a lot about brakes, not having brakes is not super important, I don't mind using manual brakes.
  Rider weight. - I actually haven't weighed myself in awhile, I'm a bit chunky but not fat, so I'll say somewhere around 200lbs.
  Terrain. - I'm from Vancouver B.C and there are quite a few hills pretty much everywhere. I don't want to climb mountains or anything but on a typical trip, there are at least 6-7 average (10-30 degrees) sized hills
  Added: Easability. - This is sort of important as I have absolutely ZERO experience with any sort of mechanics. I come from a world of building PC's and dealing with computer hardware. I am super eager to learn but not from making mistakes. I simply cannot afford it until after I feel confident in understanding it more.

So I've looked at plenty of kits already and I've practically narrowed it down myself to two things.[/strike]

Buy a full Q100 kit + 36V10AH Bottle Battery from BMSbattery for about $650 CAD w/ shipping after USD conversion
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/577-q100-36v350w-rear-e-bike-whole-kit-ebike-kit.html
or
Buy a MagicPie + 24V20ah LifePo4 Battery from goldenmotor.ca for around $850 CAD w/ shipping.
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/24V20AH-LiFePO4-Aluminum-Cased-Battery.html

BMS is obviously cheaper but their kits don't look easy to install/stealthy. The biggest question I have right now is Bottle Batteries. What are these? Are they better than LifePo4? I really like the whole "plug & play" type batteries. Raw battery packs do not interest me as much.

Thanks!

 

[electrocats]

Q100 seems like the most obvious answer here considering it's price but I just want to know what you guys think.

Price is sort of an important issue here, I honestly don't have $1000 to drop like pocket change. I have to save up for a few months. Buying parts separately might be better for me as long as the price doesn't increase drastically. I have no problem buying the kit now and then buying the battery 5 months later.

 

[LewTwo]

One tiny bit of information that you left out: the MTB frame and fork that you plan to convert.
Is it hi-ten steel, chromoly, aluminum, carbon fiber ?
What kind of fork: Rigid, suspension, material ?

FYI:
I am running a Smart Pie v4 with a 36 volt 12 AmHr battery on a small 700C hi-ten steel road frame.
The full kit comes in over 60 pounds and I contribute another 150.
Top speed is about 22 MPH on level ground (and a fresh charge) with unassisted range of around 20 miles.

If you are looking at Golden Motors then check out Golden Motors Canada (native english speaker).
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/

 

[electrocats]

One tiny bit of information that you left out: the MTB frame and fork that you plan to convert.
Is it hi-ten steel, chromoly, aluminum, carbon fiber ?
What kind of fork: Rigid, suspension, material ?

FYI:
I am running a Magic Pie v4 with a 36 volt 12 AmHr battery on a small 700C hi-ten steel road frame.
The full kit comes in over 60 pounds and I contribute another 150.
Top speed is about 22 MPH on level ground (and a fresh charge) with unassisted range of around 20 miles.

If you are looking at Golden Motors then check out Golden Motors Canada (native english speaker).
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/

Wow, even to my surprise, I just went over the entire frame with a magnet and it was all magnetic! That's actually good news because I sorta feared it was going to be aluminum.

The fork looks very basic I think. Here's a picture of the exact same bike I have, same color too.

Also, I have already been using goldenmotor.ca. Their batteries are just really expensive but it doesn't seem like there are any better options...sigh. I have a headache from searching thru BMSbattery and goldenmotor.ca for the past couple hours trying to find an optimal combination but it seems I'm just going to have to face the reality.

 

[LewTwo]

You might want to take a look at this thread ....
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71824

 

[electrocats]

You might want to take a look at this thread ....
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71824

Sigh, having already glossed over it twice, there's not a lot of useful information for me there. Or at least it's not obvious...

I should mention that I want to exclusively use rear wheel.

I understand that steel frames are better than aluminum and carbon and that a torque arm could possibly be needed to help re-enforce. However I am not buying a new frame/fork. The price just keeps rising and I simply do not have the money to throw down like it's nothing. I'm pretty poor, most of my expenses go towards food and rent. I do not own a car and I am in serious need of better transportation needs. Especially with so many hills.

This is starting to sound like a pipe dream tbh, I might just abandon the whole idea or wait for some magical large amount of money to appear in my life.

 

[electrocats]

After getting some sleep and doing some more research on kits, I'm taking some of your advice Nelson and I'm just gonna push thru and meet my goal. I've come up with some newer affordable builds.

I found a site called lunacycle.com that ships to Canada cheap ($50 fixed)

Their latest kit would be the Magic Pie V5 Solid Black for $425 W/ shipping
http://lunacycle.com/motors/conversion-kits/golden-motor-v5-magic-pie-complete-kit/

I will eventually add a battery when they are back in stock.
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/36v-18650-20ah-ebike-battery-pack/ for $270

Can anyone comment on the battery for me? I'm not a fan of shrunk wrap batteries but the AH and the V seem solid. They don't mention life cycles though. I might consider switching it out for a case LifePO4 battery if the life cycles aren't that great. (800 vs 2000)

Also, I can't tell from the previous posts or not but is my frame solid? I've seen a picture here posted of what happens to aluminum forks when a hub motor is installed and used. I understand the damage but is Steel not enough? Will a torque arm be sufficient? Two torque arms? I'm not planning to install a Front Wheel kit at all and I don't really wanna replace the frame or the fork.

 

[LewTwo]

Sigh, having already glossed over it twice, there's not a lot of useful information for me there. Or at least it's not obvious...

I should mention that I want to exclusively use rear wheel. ...

My mistake: When stated easability I assumed that you intended a front motor hub (never, never assume).

 

[motomech]

You might want to take a look at this thread ....
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71824

Sigh, having already glossed over it twice, there's not a lot of useful information for me there. Or at least it's not obvious...

I should mention that I want to exclusively use rear wheel.

I understand that steel frames are better than aluminum and carbon and that a torque arm could possibly be needed to help re-enforce. However I am not buying a new frame/fork. The price just keeps rising and I simply do not have the money to throw down like it's nothing. I'm pretty poor, most of my expenses go towards food and rent. I do not own a car and I am in serious need of better transportation needs. Especially with so many hills.

This is starting to sound like a pipe dream tbh, I might just abandon the whole idea or wait for some magical large amount of money to appear in my life.

You want to use the Q100C (cassette type)) with a Li-Ion "bottle type"battery from BMS Battery.
The "201"Slow-speed will climb well enough, but with a 36V battery, the top speed will only be 17 to 18 mph.
You probably could have everything needed delivered to your door for less than $600 US.
There are ways to get more speed, but it would cost, maybe $100 more.
If you want to do this, let me know and I will help you with a build list.

 

[2old]

Just to echo Nelson, I've had extremely good service from Ypedal too. He supplied everything necessary except the battery and configured it so it was "plug and play". Additionally, he was very patient when answering my too many questions. I suggest that you look at his web site and/or contact him.

 

[electrocats]

Just to echo Nelson, I've had extremely good service from Ypedal too. He supplied everything necessary except the battery and configured it so it was "plug and play". Additionally, he was very patient when answering my too many questions. I suggest that you look at his web site and/or contact him.

Gonna have to pass. Can't justify dropping $550 for just the kit itself. As much as I trust his website and your word. It's just too expensive for the kit + shipping alone.

 

[d8veh]

There's so much choice these days that it makes it difficult to recommend anything.

One thing I would recommend though is to keep clear of LiFePO4 batteries unless you want a big heavy, throttle only, electric motorcycle rather than a pedal cycle. LiFePO4 is double the weight of modern akternatives.

Next, the type of controller you get should depend on your riding style. If you just want to throttle around without pedalling, you can have a wide choice, but if you want to pedal most/all of the time, then you should get a sinewave one with a LCD and at least 5 levels of assistance.

From what you've said so far, it looks like the 48v Q128H and the 48v Panasonic 09 bottle battery with the included 20A controller would be a good combination. It's more or less plug and play. You need to buy additionally, their spoke wrench, a torque arm and a wheel-speed sensor. You only need the wheel-speed sensor if you want to record overall distance travelled because without it, the display will show zero mph when freewheling, though it will shw correctly when the motor is operating. The Q128 gives a lot more torque than the Q100H, which will be useful considering your weight and the hills. It only adds 1kg over the Q100H and you can always turn the power down if you find that it's too much since the controller has adjustable current control.

 

[dogman dan]

Holy Cow guys.... He lives in Vancouver man...

The worlds best vendor of ebike kits is in Vancouver. Get your butt down to Grin Technology, and talk to them for awhile. If you need something more affordable, then consider Ypedal's kit. You can trust Y.

Definitely true, no ebike is any better than it's battery. That's the item that needs to be best. If you decide to go with a cheaper kit with no support, fine. Usually they do actually work. But go see some bikes, and learn some stuff over there at Grin before you jump for anything.

At 200 pounds, and some good hills, I don't think you will be happy with a weak motor. Think 800-1000w.

 

[electrocats]

Holy crap indeed, huge power outage here from windstorm in BC over the weekend. Glad to see some new responses in the thread.

I will check out some of the advice given here, maybe possibly head down to Grin Technologies?(tho tbh I have no intention of buying any of their products) and we'll see what happens in a couple months.

Thank you all!

 

[LockH]

ACK! (Coming late to thread due to broken laptop w/only ES/internet access via BlackBerry w/tiny keyboard) Just wanna Plus One re Grin and YP. Case of "been there, done that" with these folks. Strangely, I'm OK with stuff like LiFePO4 where for urban travels not needing any huge battery (weight). One current fav too is mined in Canada Lithium:
http://www.phostechlithium.com/index.php

... if I could figure how to get some tasty cells/packs of theirs.

G'Luck

 

[dnmun]

last one. 48V15Ah pack included:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F-48V-700W-DISC-Ebike-Scooters-26-15AH-LiFePO4-Battery-5A-Charger-BMS-8-Weeks-/131552581576

or use a bigger battery:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-20ah-LiFePO4-Battery-5A-Charger-BMS-Ebike-Powerful-Rechargeable-USE-1000W/131548396564?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33278%26meid%3D465a384bd1414041970035b08c49c7f3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D131551658270

 

[electrocats]

Those are front wheel kits btw (I think?) but sun-thing28 has super appealing prices and free shipping apparently. So I like what I see so far.

So if I were to buy a raw battery pack, how would I be able to keep it safe from damage? They generally look very large and "exposed"

Is there some kind of extremely weatherproof modular case I can buy? I don't care about locks or LCD displays, I just want it protected from the elements. Weight's not really an issue because I use a backpack everywhere I go, so I can always store the battery in my bag but I still want a protective case.

 

[dogman dan]

You catch on fast. Yes, if your pack is just shrink wrapped, or taped, or something like that then you definitely need to add some protection. I like to start with some plastic political or other sign material, and create a very tight fitting box for the pack. Then it can be carried in a large variety of boxes or bags with little risk of damage to the battery. If it fits the box or bag too loosely, shim it with something to get a nice tight fit that doesn't rattle around too much.

Depending on the bike frame, it's size, and the batteries size and shape, one of the best solutions out there can be a frame bag. Not just any bag though, one made for batteries with lots of extra straps to hold it down. EM3ev has one I have really liked.

If your battery won't fit in the frame, then it's usually some kind of rear rack to carry. On top ok if the battery is light, but if it gets over 15 pounds, then it really needs to carry lower, like in a pannier.

Re grin, yes, likely your budget won't handle buying from them. But I'd still have a look see, check out bikes that happen to be there at the moment, look at how they carry their batteries, etc. Go to the website too, and read some basic info they have there.

 

[OCD Garage]

Hi E-cat nice to see another wetcoaster on the board:

Although not in the same league as MXUS, Crystalite, etc; for a budget build, Golden Motor products have stood up to my abuse testing for several years now. Don't forget with our crappy dollar the $425 US MP5 kit actually costs $562cdn, while the same kit from GM Canada is $449cdn + the cost of a can of black paint. About a year ago I contacted GM Hong Kong about buying a volume of all black MPIII motors and they refused as the black/silver is "part of their brand identity" and suggested I paint them myself. If you really want all black for stealth you could get the $320cdn 'black magic motor' which is also disc rotor compatible unlike the old Pro 901. I have a 20" MPIII which was super easy to set-up and works well if 1000 watts is enough for your needs. Gary at GM Canada is okay to deal with, but after the purchase I find you generally have to open a repair ticket to get any response from him. I've been running 3000 watts through a couple of their cheapest (Pro 901) motors for years without a failure. Lots of cheaper batteries out there now too...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...c-Bike-with-PVC-case/1761558_32354020751.html these guys also make reasonably priced triangle batteries to fit in the frame with bag and charger for $550cdn http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ilt-in-3-7V-2300-mah/1761558_32426356696.html with protective aluminum case http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ion-Battery-built-in/1761558_32354857667.html 8)

 

[dnmun]

i bet the sun-thing guy would do a mix and match to get the 48/v20A pack and the rear direct drive motor and the lights for about $750 if you contact him directly. make an offer, he may be negotiable. i also see him as the low cost seller. with similar pack to ping and the direct drive motors are now so ubiquitous in china i think the quality would be ok. just the 7 week wait. depends on your patience versus need for the high cost of DHL airfreight.