Clipless pedals and efficiency

[docnjoj]

I just got my first set of bike shoes and clipless pedals from a sale at my LBS. I put them on the trike with spacers and rode 14 miles Sat and Sun with some interesting results. I did hook up the Turnigy and found that my previous average at the same voltage (54) and same route was about 5 AH. I thought that was pretty good. With the new shoes and pedals I had 2 trips of 3.6 and 3.7 Ah. WTF? My legs were more tired than usual but i actually spun more and used less pedal force since they hurt my knee for about a mile. I noticed some different muscle groups being used but I became accomodated to this by about mile 5. Could the pedaling efficiency be that great compared to PowerGrips straps I used previously? On a tadpole your feet have to be attached to the pedals somehow because if you drop your foot the trike will roll over it and break your leg. The new pedals really allow one to hang feet on the pedals with no pressure, unlike PowerGrips. I like them!
otherDoc

 

[Rayy]

Cycling shoes are more efficient with a hard sole that does not compress. A long time ago I read an article that cycling shoes are 10-15% more efficient than runners. If you are using 25% less power, some other factors are comming into play. If you were spinning more, maybe you were adding more power since you were more tired. How was the wind conditions and average speed of the rides with/without the new shoes?

Are these shoes floating or fixed. If they are fixed, make sure you get the cleats aligned or it will be hard on the knees.

 

[vanilla ice]

I think most recreational type cyclists use a cadence that is much slower than optimum. I'm guessing that is where the difference is. "Masher" I think is what serious cyclists would call it.

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Rayy? I am new to this "clipless" thing as they never had that stuff 100 years ago when I raced highwheelers. What is a floating clip? I have maybe 3/4 of an inch that I can rotate my heel without coming up against the stop. I have the inserts set on the lowest setting to clip in.
otherDoc

 

[Rayy]

Hey docnjoj, a floating cleat allows the shoe to rotate before beginning to release. If you have 3/4" of rotation, it sounds like it is a floating cleat. If you find that you are not fighting the shoe position when you ride, you are probably fine. What type of pedals did you get?

When I starting riding with cycling shoes and toe straps decades ago, I would snug up the cleats to the shoe and go for a ride. After, wherever the cleat ended up on the shoe was where I tightened the cleat down. With the floating cleats, it is not as critical.

On a tadpole trike, you're good to go but on a regular bike, remember to pull you foot out before you stop.

Rayy

 

[veloman]

I can produce above 60-100% more wattage during a sprint with clipless pedals (carbon fiber sole Shimano shoes and Speedplay Zero pedals) than I can on normal platform pedals and sneakers.

The difference isn't much when casual cycling, at say 100watts. But yeah, clipless pedals are a no brainer if you want to transmit more power through your legs, and you don't have to walk around much after getting off your bike. For an errand bike, I do stick with flat pedals, since I'm barely pedaling at all to begin with.

I can only imagine the greater benefit for riding on a recumbent.

 

[chrisvw]

I swear by clipless myself. My ebike does have "campus" pedals - flat on one side, cleats on the other. I have several shoes - I buy the mountain shoes so you can walk semi-normally when you're off the bike. Mountain shoes have tread on the outside edges of the shoes so the cleats either don't touch when you walk or just touch.

Finally, Keen makes some fabulous sandals that accept a cleat. Perfect for summer.

 

[Rassy]

My Brother (before his stroke) and two of his biking buddies all wore clipless on their recumbent bikes. They were always after me to get with the program, and my recumbent had the pedals on it when I got it. So eventually I purchased a pair of shoes, but put the pedals on the delta trike instead of the bike. The best part was that they kept my foot right where it belonged, a problem I had never noticed with diamond frame bikes. Never used any toe clips or straps, so being able to pull the crank through the back stroke helps with my efficiency also.

Was chicken to try the clipless on the recumbent bike, but always use them on the tadpole. I did get the shoes that have some tread around the cleats so they are sort of okay for a little bit of walking.

 

[drewdiller]

Having experience with both Power Grips and clipless pedals (I call them click-in pedals), I will say this:

Power Grips are nice because they're cheap, simple, don't require special shoes, and keep your foot from falling off while biking off road. You can pull up on them if they're fit snugly to a given shoe. However, they do flex a little bit, and I have been able to slip out of them backwards, or slip too far forward.

Click-in pedals simply feel so much more direct. The stiffness lent by the required shoes are simply confidence inspiring, they give the feeling like you can really just whale on the cranks from any angle. In others words, with platform pedals or Power Grips, you spend 10% and 5% of your concentration (respectively) on keeping your foot in place, whereas with click-in pedals you can just go wild.

 

[sk8norcal]

one of the magical secret of cycling is spinning...

new cyclists usually pedal at too slow of a cadence.

learn to spin circles and higher cadence allows your leg to last longer and less strain on knees.


the best way to learn how to spin is riding on a roller.

my favorite clipless is LOOK with the ARC cleats.

and your feet are rotating weights,
the lighter your shoes and pedals, the more efficient.

 

[D-Man]

I run super light bmx pedals on my road bike with my regular shoes and orthotic inserts. No straps or anything. I can see the advantage of running a super stiff sole. Regular shoes work good with wide bmx pedals. I drop most people and spin whatever rpm. Non adjustable pegs though. Too many lights and stops and starts in the city to be fooling around with clipless. Only really a few spots to open it up and you might get 1.5 miles before you hit a red light again. A big bump sometimes causes me to loose foot position if I'm pedalling but no biggie. I also have a heavy aluminum type bmx pedal on my ebike beings I like standing sometimes while riding. Those have different length pegs. I installed the longer ones on the insides of the pedals because a shin strike only happens on the outsides of the pedal where the shorter screws are. No gaff marks on the shins.

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks everyone for your input. I had my 3rd experience with the Shimano SPD and some decent Mt Bike shoes yesterday after making some adjustment to both the cleats and the pedal spacers as well as the boom length. I was able to move the crank boom out about 12mm. Small adjustments seem to make a big difference in knee comfort, We did about 13 miles and the recharge showed a similar AH savings as the last runs. I am experimenting with a bit of pulling up like I used to do with toe clips in the old days and my legs are starting to get used to this. To me pain means no gain, especially in old damaged knees and I had no pain this run! Whoopie! These things really work and on a trike they are perfect. No Artie Johnson for me!
otherDoc

 

[amberwolf]

Interesting that this thread comes up now...just a couple of days ago on Sunday, I found a pair of brand new Shimano SPD MT20D shoes (no cleats) *in my size* at the thrift store. I also have some clipless pedals in a junk box I got some months ago, though I don't know if there is a potential set between the three different ones I have. I can probably make cleats out of something, once I look at enough pictures of the ones i'd need for these pedals and shoes.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=289749#p289749

I knew that they had stiffer soles, but until I got these I had no idea how different they would feel; even with regular pedals it feels like it is easier to push the bike by pedal alone--I guess taht is the efficiency boost talked about above? Not all that uncomfortable to walk on, either, compared to what I expected; I've only tried them for a few minutes, though. Haven't even taken the tags off.

My knees are already wrecked from years of riding a bike without knowing anything about the proper way to do so (or even that it mattered), but I have been learning these last few years, slowly gathering knowledge and parts to get where I wish I had been a decade or two ago.

 

[SoSauty]

Yeah, I swear by clipless, even if there's some lo-speed awkward moments; I fell down while balancing at a stop sign and a Chihuahua(taco dog) was yelping at me

I second the riding/practicing on bike rollers to pep up your cadence.

A word of advice, look for the 'multi-directional Shimano cleats' online. A newbie at riding with their feet clipped in will find these easier to release in pinch situations. All an e-biker needs is something to hold their feet generally in place and allow the leg to power/pull upward. Being latched to the bike during violent manuevers isn't necessary, which is what the standard 'single directual cleats' do.
http://www.mtbikers.com/StoreFront/...-sm-sh56-multi-directional-cleats/SHDGRMSH55/

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks SoSauty! I will look for the multidirectional release but I think the ones I have will be OK. Trikes give you the solution to the balance problem!
Amberwolf. The cleats are kind of "precision devices" and they are not expensive. It might pay to just buy them rather than try to make them. You really need to get your feet out of the pedals in a hurry on 2 wheels! Many folks won't use them in city traffic.
otherDoc

 

[amberwolf]

Inexpensive to one person does not necessarily mean the same to another. $15 for me could be a week and a half of my meals, depending on the sales I can catch for meat and stuff. So I spend money on things like bike gear only when I:

A) find a onetime deal that is so good I know I will never see it's like again
and
B1) actually have money I can afford to spend (very rare)
or
B2) am willing/able to do without on other things to make up the difference. I've done an awful lot of that since I found ES. :lol: Lots more than I did before, but partly because at work my hours had been cut back drastically (to around 7hrs/wk avg) since this time last year, before I joined ES. (fortunately they've gone back to nearly normal, 20 or so, and for the last month almost double that)


Plus, there is the challenge of making things myself, especially if I can do it out of other things never intended for the purpose. "Precision" work is tougher, but often I can do well enough to get by. I'm mostly thinking of the cleats themselves for the trike, because I doubt I could use them in my commutes safely on the bike (unless I put stabilizers like AussieJester's).

 

[docnjoj]

Oh believe me Amberwolf I very well understand the no money thing in life. But when an item is 15 bucks and Shimano makes it and it involves your safety it seems to be the "discression is the better part of valor........." thing. At my age and with the meds I need to take I would never use cleats on a 2 wheeler. I will get them for my wifes new trike when she heals and can test ride to find the one she wants.

Regarding income:
Many of us old folks hit our stride financially in our 50's and life can get a lot better as a "senior citizen" Hang in there!
otherDoc

 

[D-Man]

I'd run clipless if I had one of those recumbents where your legs are way up in the air. Seems dangerous though.

 

[docnjoj]

Hi D-man
For a trike straps or clips are really manditory since if you drop your foot it could get dragged under, especially on a tadpole. I used Power Grip straps for years but the clipless cleats are better since you can put your pedal force through a longer arc. Also you don't have to constantly push forward just to keep your feet on the pedals. My wife is gunna get her first "bike shoes" with the Shimano cleat system for the new trike. For anything with 2 wheels I would avoid them except when racing. Remember Artie Johnson? I've been there!
otherDoc