Crystalyte HS3540 motor voltage

[ajarworks]

Hello all, very new here

I have a Volt Metro folding electric bike, 250 watt hub motor, 36 volt 10 amp Li polymer battery and useful as it is I want to go faster so I'm starting my project to build an electric retro racer based around an old "Holdsworth" "Roy Thame" Renolds 531 tube frame. 700c wheels 28mm slick tyres, front and rear disks.

I've decided on the Crystalyte HS3540 motor after much reading of this forum but I'm confused about the maximum voltage.

The technical details on their web site say "Voltage range 24Volt - 72 Volt" but the product file download says "Voltage range 24 - 48 Volt", which is it?





Also; is €285 a sensible price for a stand alone motor or should I be looking elsewhere? PS I'm in the UK.

 

[amberwolf]

You can use whatever voltage you like on the motor itself--it's insulation would probably handle at least 150-200V. The more battery voltage, the faster it will spin at the same throttle setting.

It's the controller's limit you would want to verify and not exceed.


Keep in mind the HS3540 is a big heavy motor (probably weighs as much as or more than either of your bare bikes not counting any present electrics). Nice for heavy duty work, and/or continous power, but is a lot of motor if you don't need that. (I have the HSR3548 in a 20" wheel on the back of CrazyBike2).


Dunno about the rest, but I think http://ebikes.ca also sells that motor.

 

[Tench]

The crystalyte HS3540 is a decent motor and should handle everything a 48v pack could throw at it. It might touch 30mph in the right conditions on 48 volts in that size wheel.

We don't have a lot of choice motor wise in the UK but you could try the new EU supplier mentioned here on ES who is not only cheaper but also offering an additional discount.

http://fasterbikes.eu/index.php?id_category=14&controller=category&id_lang=3

The thread with the discount offer is here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=62005

At modest power levels you may be better with one of the many 9c clone motors, basically the same as the HS3540 but with a lighter 27mm wide stator instead of the HS's 35mm. I have just bought one that I am very impressed with, not ran it yet but the build quality is better than the Crystalyte in my opinion and it is lighter at 6kg. Unless you are running over 72v and 40a its should cope very well.

 

[MadRhino]

H motors are sh*t, but they have some good sides. It is a relatively lightweight dd hub that can make a fast bike for cheap. You can feed the HS 3540 motor 10 Kw and it will come close to 100 Kmh in a 26" wheel on 24s lipo, but if you do this it will not last very long and you need do some mods for cooling. It will be a tad slower but much more reliable in a 24" wheel, and don't even think about running it sensorless or climbing steep at higher voltage. I fried quite a few, but still have some. I see it like a disposable lighter: It is not heavy and does the job for cheap, but you know it will go to garbage after some time.

They are made with very poor quality control (if any) and you need to test them before buying if you plan performance, for 7 out of 10 don't spin round and straight. Ordering this motor to be shipped, you need to trust the vendor to have tested them all and done the corrections before selling.

What I like of it: It does deliver a lot of torque and its light weight makes it easy to tune the rear suspension.
What I don't like of it: You can fry it faster than a temp probe can read it's too hot

 

[Merlin]

dont forget the G Series of Crystalyte.


http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34203

 

[kudos]

The crystalyte HS3540 is a decent motor and should handle everything a 48v pack could throw at it. It might touch 30mph in the right conditions on 48 volts in that size wheel.

We don't have a lot of choice motor wise in the UK but you could try the new EU supplier mentioned here on ES who is not only cheaper but also offering an additional discount.

http://fasterbikes.eu/index.php?id_category=14&controller=category&id_lang=3

The thread with the discount offer is here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=62005

At modest power levels you may be better with one of the many 9c clone motors, basically the same as the HS3540 but with a lighter 27mm wide stator instead of the HS's 35mm. I have just bought one that I am very impressed with, not ran it yet but the build quality is better than the Crystalyte in my opinion and it is lighter at 6kg. Unless you are running over 72v and 40a its should cope very well.

Tench,

Where did you get your 9C/clone motor from out of interest? I'm thinking about maybe picking one up seeing as they're cheap...

Kudos

 

[Tench]

I got if from a member on here Bigsi, he was sending me some motors to replace the axles in for one of his projects so I had one of the 9c motors he brings in sent to me at the same time.

I posted a bit of info about it here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62137

 

[kudos]

ajarworks,

I have run my HS3540 on 10S Lipo (42V), 12S Lipo (50V) and 20S Lipo (84V) all with a 40Amp contoller.

Personally I found 50V plenty speed wise, in a 26" wheel you get over 30mph.

However, once you go to 20S it's difficult to go back because although I never went flat out speed-wise, the acceleration is just nice to have.

So yeah to repeat, it's not about the motor which will take any voltage, it's the controller's max voltage that you need to be concerned with.

Kudos

 

[Drunkskunk]

The Roy Thame is a road bike, and while it's a steel frame, it's not a good candidate for a high powered bike. Road bikes are built for 1 human power, which is far less than 1 horse power. A Clyte HS3540 can make many horse power. Up to 12.5hp if you're pushing it to 10kw. Consider that's about 25 times what the bike was designed for.

A 500w motor like the Nine Continents or any of the clones would be good. I wouldn't recommend going much above 1500w peak

 

[ajarworks]

Thanks everybody for your replies. Most helpful.

Maybe time for a rethink and possibly a reality check.

My original goal was to create a bike that could go as fast as I used to cycle as a teenager, I'm 53 now At my peak fitness I could maintain an average of 17 mph and regularly touched 38 mph with my 64 ring slip-streaming trucks and buses. I was known by my friends as the cyclepath

As kudos said "...once you go to 20S it's difficult to go back.." I now realise that with the HS3540, the right batteries and controller I could attain >50 mph. My problem is that I know if I could I would.

Thank you Drunkskunk; "Up to 12.5hp if you're pushing it to 10kw" good point, I've a paramotor engine that's only slightly more powerful than that

I'll probably just go ahead and build it anyway and scare the c*** out of myself. Will post pictures as I go.

Cheers.

 

[amberwolf]

Well, make SURE you build some good torque arms into those dropouts, or you may well pry the motor out of htem and leave your wheel behind the first time you gun the throttle.

I've got 5mm+ thick BMX dropouts welded across my original 2-3mm thick 10speed dropouts on CrazyBike2, and I filled and filed them for a pretty exact axle fit (have to tap it into place). Still, the first time I forgot to THOROUGHLY tighten the axle nuts after taking the wheel off for something, it rocked the axle back and forth in them enough to very very slightly pry them apart a little, so now unless I make sure the nuts are super-tight (tough to do with such a soft axle/nuts) it rocks back and forth when I accelerate or regen brake...and that's just a 40A controller on <60V.

(also, I could possibly wheelie a normal bike with all the weight at the back, with this, but on my very long bike with a separate motor up front it can't do that...yet it still lifts the front end *just* enough to cause less traction on that front motor so it slips a teeny bit on hard startups from a stop).

 

[miuan]

My original goal was to create a bike that could go as fast as I used to cycle as a teenager, I'm 53 now At my peak fitness I could maintain an average of 17 mph and regularly touched 38 mph with my 64 ring slip-streaming trucks and buses. I was known by my friends as the cyclepath
As kudos said "...once you go to 20S it's difficult to go back.." I now realise that with the HS3540, the right batteries and controller I could attain >50 mph. My problem is that I know if I could I would.

With your original goal in mind, I'd never build a bike like that myself.
Think of it. How was it when you were young? You had a bike that was relatively light, fast, had thin tires and you could put out hundreds of watts for extended periods.
Really, all you need to achieve this is getting a speed wound 250/350W geared hubbie and a tiny pack of 12s or 15s lipos in a frame bag with a 6fet 3077 controller tuned down to 15/17 amps. It would get you to some serious speed on level ground with some pedal input
Any bigger and it's not a real bicycle anymore. I've built and ridden both - light and modestly powered, and heavy overpowered bikes alike. The underpowered are always much more fun to ride because you are not riding a moped, it's still a bike, and a pretty fast one at that!
Also, with a heavy hub, you absolutely do need a heavier and wider tire. Any thinner than 37/42mm and it's not going to survive for long enough unless you ride in ideal conditions. With a tiny hub you can get away with a skinny tire just fine.
It gets so hard to resist the power bug especially if you don't already own a heavy powerful bike. But trust me, you will appreciate the light one. You can also choose to use a front motor and decide to add a rear later on as you feel the power is too low.

 

[ajarworks]

amberwolf, thanks, sound advice. Being a tad OCD engineerish I had considered the torque arm question and also wheel nuts. As "quick release" type securing is not an option I assumed I'd use correctly torqued up nylocs knowing how nuts have a habit of coming loose at the worst possible moment

The weight and balance and CofG and aerodynamics issue had also occurred to me and I'd decided to hang the batteries in a center frame slung battery box then I stumbled across e-cannon's stunning piece of work;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13411

Wheelies had not occurred to me

miuan; brilliant;

all you need to achieve this is getting a speed wound 250/350W geared hubbie and a tiny pack of 12s or 15s lipos in a frame bag with a 6fet 3077 controller tuned down to 15/17 amps. It would get you to some serious speed on level ground with some pedal input

Done, that's the way I'll go.

... it's still a bike, and a pretty fast one at that!

Just what I was aiming at

It gets so hard to resist the power bug especially if you don't already own a heavy powerful bike.

I know I'll want to go there but next build.

I have reminiscent reasons for getting the Roy Thame frame back on the road but as a fast e-bike. Also I've managed to stay alive by resisting the temptation to own a powerful motor bike. I rode a 650cc trials bike years ago and still shudder at the memory of what I got away with on it. PS I weigh 68kg :lol: